For Klutzo

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by shipsing, Aug 16, 2003.

  1. shipsing

    shipsing New Member

    Hello,
    Thank you for the info on the ASI testing, my question is if I get the test done at Dr. PPoesnecker's site, who get's the result's of the test, me or the Dr??
    If the Dr. get's them, then do I have to stick with him or can I use the test result's to try to do my own medicating?
    Thank you,
    shipsing
  2. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    I would like to get the ASI done, but don't want to take Poesnecker's treatment, since it is adrenal glandulars, which may be contaminated with parasites or not standard dose..

    I guess I would want to use the Cortef as the treatment, but wonder if wholistic docs would prescribe it..
    So, I want the wholistic testing, but not the wholistic treatment of glandulars..A quandary? Klutzo, do wholistic docs use Cortef, if the tests indicate the need for it?

    Plantscaper
  3. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    You need a doctor to send the results to, and if it's not a holistic doctor, you might as well be sending the results in Greek for all the good it will do.
    However, none of the holistic docs I know will prescribe Cortef. Of course, none of the conventional ones will either!
    I belive Dr. Teitlebaum's website has a national directory of docs who use his protocol (which uses Cortef). However, I tried to get it to work and couldn't, but I am no computer whiz, so try it anyway!
    At least with holistic docs, you have other options to increase your cortisol output, if needed. Remember, depending upon which stage of adrenal fatigue you are in, you may need LESS cortisol, not more.
    Klutzo
  5. shipsing

    shipsing New Member

    Klutzo,
    thank you for replying, There's a Dr. about 30 mile's from me that is holistic and I will call and see if he is taking new patient's, he is on the good Dr. list from this site. it's John Dunn in Washington State.
    shipsing
  6. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    I plan on consulting with an integrative doc, once I find one that will help me on this..would the other solutions be the Ginseng and Licorice instead of Cortef for cortisol..or are there other solutions?

    Plantscaper
  7. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Dear Ship - I am green with envy! Washington is one of the states where your insurance has to pay if you see a Naturopath! I would love that. In this case, if you may want Cortef, the holistic doc would be better. The key question to ask when you call is: "Does this doctor practice integrated medicine?"

    Plantscaper - Siberian ginseng, or Panax ginseng (unless you have high blood pressure) and licorice tea are good alternatives to Cortef, as you said. You might also try precursors like Pregnenolone and DHEA, but it's a good idea to have that monitored closely, as you know.
    My Naturopath favored Siberian Ginseng, but my holistic doc favored licorice tea and a tiny amt. of DHEA. My present doc favors pregnenolone or larger amts. of DHEA, but sees all this as a temporary stop-gap while raising neurotransmitters to normal, which should then correct the H-P-A dysregulation problem.
    It seems the alt. docs differ just as much as the regular ones do, as far as favored treatments.

    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 08/17/2003]
  8. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    They do have different approaches...Thanks so much for all the knowlegable information...

    Plantscaper
  9. isee

    isee New Member

    I got a rx from my naturopath for Cortef. However, I had to persuade him since my cortisol was normal on adrenal test. The test showed I was low in DHEA, so I began with OTC DHEA(25mg). Also, to support my adrenals he gave me Isocort(a glandular with echinachea),which I took at noon every day for 3 months. But, because I had started Armour's thyroid(30,then 60mg)I wanted to try Cortef(hydrocortisone). So, last week I began taking the Cortef(half a 5mg tab). I've been taking it for 3 days now, and I'm feeling few aches and pains, and less tired. I'm experiencing more insomnia, but it could just be temporary adjustment.

    Twelve years ago, during a relapse I had severe vertigo(room
    would spin while lying down, vomited). An audiologist, gave me predisone(10mg), and a few days the vertigo disappeared.(I stopped the predisone after 10 days.) Within a couple of months my other CFS symptoms went away. I've always remembered that experience!

    Unfortunately, in the next relapse(without the vertigo), six
    yrs. later, predisone didn't help my symptoms of brain fog, and deep muscular and joint pain.

    I'll see how it goes with the hydrocortisone(cortef). I'm hopeful it will because it's molecular structure is similar to the corticosteroids our bodies produce, unlike predisone.
    Also, my theory is that our body's chemistry is in a state of flux, and therefore it responds positively or negatively to medicines,vitamins, supplements depending on the present mix of hormones, neurotransmitters, etc. that exist at any given time.

    Anna
  10. shipsing

    shipsing New Member

    Hi Klutzo,
    Don't go all green with envy (lol, I don't have any insurance.
    I thought Narutepath's were Holistic Dr's. Am I laboring under a misconception?? I pulled John Dunn from the good Dr reference here on this site, I haven't called him yet. Do Naturepath's do the ASI test? I suspect I'm in stage 4-6 somewhere in there.

    Another question, have you tried Dr. Rind's Basic Cell Energy vitamin's? I tried looking for a thread on this on this site and couldn't find one.

    Because of money I can't go to Dr. Dunn until October and I need adrenal support now, do you think these would help or are they just hype?
    shipsing
  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Naturopaths are ENTIRELY different things in different states!
    In Washington, Oregon and Connecticutt a Naturopath is a licensed doctor. It's like a different specialty, and is just like a holistic doctor, except some holistic docs also use allopathic (conventional) medicine along with Naturopathy and that is called Integrated Medicine, while Naturopaths usually will not prescribe drugs, though they can, IN THOSE STATES ONLY. In those 3 states, they must go to college and then do 5 extra yrs. of Naturopathic medical school, wherein they take regular Pharmacology and do minor surgery and dissect a human, and all that jazz. California and Arizona are also in the process of passing laws to license Naturopaths.
    In most other states, people calling themselves Naturopaths are usually someone who took a correspondence course. This person may have a PhD. or be a high school drop-out. They can't be licensed, and they can't call themselves doctors or they risk a felony conviction. There is no science background required and they cannot write prescriptions or order regular lab tests. I can testify that good Naturopathy correspondence courses are no day at the beach, but they will not make you the equal of a holistic doctor. In all these other states, a holistic doctor is a regular M. D. or D. O. who has decided to practice either Naturopathic or Integrative medicine.
    I hope I have not confused you even more!
    Klutzo

    P.S. No, I have not taken Dr. Rind's vitamins so can't comment on them. Yes, ALL Naturopaths do the ASI test.
    [This Message was Edited on 08/18/2003]

    PPSS. I just went to Dr. Rind's site and looked at the ingredient list for those vitamins you asked about. They are just like any other quality vitamin supp. except for the dose of Vitamin B5, which is present in the high amount usually prescribed for treating adrenal fatigue. If you are short of cash, you can just keep taking the vitamins you have, and buy a botle of 500 mg. Vit. B-5, unless you are not taking any vitamins at all.

    PPPSSS. Don't you live in Washington state? My best friend lives there and she told me all residents automatically have basic health insurance covered by Kaiser. She is literally a "starving artist" , so maybe you would not be quite poor enough to qualify...I am not sure how it works.
    [This Message was Edited on 08/18/2003]
  12. shipsing

    shipsing New Member

    Klutzo,
    Thank you so muc for the info, I guess I am really lucky to live in Washington after all.

    No you didn't confuse me at all, my Dr. for most of my life and my step father for 18 year's was a DO, he actually founded the Osopathic Hospital in Yakima, WA, which is no more sad to say. He actually was working on CFS and thermogaphy in the last 10 year's of his life. Unfortunately for me, family didn't count, I was just "highstrung" and a "Hypochondriac". Since coming to this board and doing some research, I can see where I've had this most of my life, at least since my early 20's.

    Now the quest to get better, each piece is a clue, my new one is neurotransmitter's, I know nothing about this and will start reading on it next.
    I really want to thank you for being kind enough to respond to my question's I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
    shipsing
  13. isee

    isee New Member

    I see a naturopath in Arizona. He has written prescriptions for me, which have included at various times, hydrocortisone(Cortef), Armour's thyroid, cholestyramine, and Wellbutrin.
    It's my understanding that naturopaths are licensed in Arizona.

    Anna
  14. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I knew that licesning was in process in both Arizona and California, but did not know it was already a fact! Good going. I hope other states will follow suit.
    Do you know if California has licensed them yet?
    Klutzo
  15. shipsing

    shipsing New Member

    Klutzo,
    I thought I was taking a good vitamin, got it from a heal food store, but the amount's are only 100% daily on what I have, so will have to look for a better one, thank's for the info.

    Yes, I live in Washington State and I've never heard of anyone automaticly qualifying for Kaiser Health Insurance, My official income is $300.00 per month so I'm sure I'm low enough on the income scale, could you ask your friend for more info on this? What city does she live in? I've lived in Washington all my life, bothside's of the mountain and I can say for sure that Kaiser is not a well known Insurance company with lot's of people on it on the East side of the mountain. I did the bookkeeping for my step Dad and there was rarely an Insurance form from Kaiser. I've only been on the West side of the mountain for 3 year's, maybe I'm missing something here? They have something that they call basic health, but you end up going to Clinic's as in Farmworker Clinic's and you wait for hour's or you have to call in at 7:00 a.m. and see if you can get on the list for that day, really hard to get seen and although it is reduced rate, you have to pay at time of service.
    I looked at your Bio and we are the same age. You're 9 month's older than me exactly, same day, dif month.
    shipsing
  16. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Yes, it is the "Basic Health" she was talking about, and it may be awful but it's all she has. She never goes to doctors anyway, saying she finds them "spectacularly unhelpful", a statement I agree with with regard to conventional doctors, but not the Naturopathic kind. She is determined to be an artist and has been living on next to nothing for almost 10 yrs. now. I don't know how she does it. I sure couldn't. She lives on Lummi Island, on the west side of the island, in a small, round, one room house. She only gets Canadian radio and TV over there, since a mountain is in the way, and several years of listening to Canadian news has changed her politics so much, that she and I have to avoid political discussions completely to keep from arguing now.
    It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world!
    I hope you can scrape up the cash to see the Naturopath.
    Klutzo
  17. shipsing

    shipsing New Member

    Hello,
    I agree with your friend about "reg" doc's, I've been fighting this DD for along time and finaly gave up even mentioning it to them.
    Unfortunately all I thought was available was Health Food Store's and some book's, I didn't have a clue until a couple week's ago that there were site's like this one, nor how far knowledge had come forward about this crud. I'm on it with a vengence now lol I've been in the "treat the symptom's" mode instead of get to the root of it.
    It's nice to meet you and your info has been enlightening to day the least,
    Thank you so very much,
    ship
  18. isee

    isee New Member

    Sorry, I don't know if naturopaths are licensed in California. As an aside, my naturopath says that most of the
    organized resistance against naturopaths(becoming licensed)now comes from chiropractors. He says it's because chiros and naturopaths are often competing for the same clients. It's unfortunate I think because I have found my chiropractors offer services that complement those of my naturopaths. Actually, I wish informed nutrionists would join some of these practices. I still feel that food is a powerful drug - one that can hurt or help. If I ever recover
    enough, I might well become that nutritionist I can't seem to find!

    Anna
  19. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    When I was studying it, I specialized in Nutritional medicine, since I felt herbs were just as likely to cause sensitivities as drugs, at least for me. There are no accredited schools in FLorida, and I was too chicken to take a chance on going to jail, so I did not finish.
    Hippocrates said: "Your food should be your medicine, and your medicine should be your food". He also said: "First, do no harm". Too bad doctors have forgotten this, and don't even get nutritional training in med school. Maybe that's one reason why their life spans are ten yrs. shorter than the rest of us, on average.
    KLutzo