for spacee (on NAC and LDN)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by sb439, Jun 5, 2003.

  1. sb439

    sb439 New Member

    Hi, I just read you have such low T4 cells. Have you considered low dose Naltrexone? I've just started it (my T cells are also low); it has shown good results with people with HIV whose T cells were in decline. Another thing I'm trying is NAC. This is because my Glutathione conjugation (in liver detox phase 2) is low (possibly as a result of mercury toxicity), and my plasma cysteine is low, too. NAC also has been shown in some studies in the 1990s to increase T cells in people with HIV, so I believe it may also help if your T cells are low without you being HIV positive. If you want more info, let me know.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/05/2003]
  2. sb439

    sb439 New Member

    in case you missed this. S.
  3. sb439

    sb439 New Member

    Naltrexone is Rx, and only some pharmacies actually produce the right size capsules. There is a whole website on low dose naltrexone which you can find when you put that into google. Very informative! I have taken 1mg for two days, now take 2mg for two days, working up to 3mg. So far have noticed no side-effects, although I react badly to quite a few meds and supplements. Low dose Naltrexone is known to have hardly any side-effects. The recommended dose for adults is 3-4.5mg per day, taken at night.

    NAC (=N-acetyl-cysteine): this must not be taken if one's cysteine blood plasma level is elevated, so a blood test to determine that may be advisable. One can take just NAC, 500-4000mg daily, between meals, or (as I do, following Andrew Cutler's suggestion), take NAC, Glutamine and Glycine in the proportion 4:2:1. These three amino acids are needed for glutathione conjugation, and in that ratio. Taking glutathione directly often doesn't work, and taking the elements from which it's put together in the body is more promising for increasing glutathione.

    Here are three research studies on NAC and HIV

    (REFERENCE 5 OF 19)

    Droge W

    Cysteine and glutathione deficiency in AIDS patients: a rationale for the treatment with N-acetyl-cysteine.

    In: Pharmacology (1993) 46(2):61-5

    A series of clinical studies and laboratory investigations suggests that the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) may be the consequence of a virus-induced cysteine deficiency. HIV-infected persons at all stages of the disease were found to have decreased plasma cystine and cysteine concentrations and decreased intracellular glutathione levels. HIV-infected persons and SIV-infected rhesus macaques have also, on the average, substantially increased plasma glutamate levels. Increased glutamate levels aggravate the cysteine deficiency by inhibiting the membrane transport of cystine. Even moderately elevated extracellular glutamate levels as they occur in HIV-infected persons cause a substantial decrease of intracellular cysteine levels. Clinical studies revealed that individual cystine and glutamate levels are correlated with the individual lymphocyte reactivity and T4+ cell counts but not T8+ cell counts. This phenomenon was demonstrated not only in HIV-infected persons but also in healthy human individuals. The cellular cysteine supply affects amongst others the intracellular glutathione level and IL-2-dependent proliferation of T cells and (inversely) also the activation of the transcription factor NF-kappa B. The cysteine deficiency of HIV-infected persons is, therefore, possibly responsible not only for the cellular dysfunction but also for the overexpression of tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha), interleukin-2 receptor alpha-chain, and and beta 2-microglobulin.

    (REFERENCE 6 OF 19)

    Roederer M Staal FJ Ela SW Herzenberg LA Herzenberg LA

    N-acetylcysteine: potential for AIDS therapy.

    In: Pharmacology (1993) 46(3):121-9

    The observations that people infected with HIV suffer not only from an inflammatory stress but also from depleted glutathione levels have led to a general hypothesis that these two are causally related, and that treatment of AIDS should include thiol-replenishment therapy. In particular, inflammatory stimulations are dependent on intracellular thiol levels, as they are potentiated at low glutathione levels (oxidative stress) and inhibited at high glutathione levels. Inflammatory stress may itself lead to decreased levels of glutathione. HIV has taken advantage of inflammatory signals to regulate its own replication; thus, the HIV infection is exacerbated by low levels of glutathione. We have shown that N-acetylcysteine can inhibit inflammatory stimulations, including that of HIV replication. Since N-acetylcysteine can replenish depleted glutathione levels in vivo, we suggest that it be used as an adjunct in the treatment of AIDS.

    (REFERENCE 7 OF 19)

    Focaccia R Cattapan A Conceicao O Buainain R Salaroli A Focaccia MT

    Response to N-acetyl-L-cysteine on the CD4-CD8 system.

    In: Int Conf AIDS (1994 Aug 7-12) 10(1):222 (abstract no. PB0319)

    We report the first results of a clinical trial conducted to test the response of CD4-CD8 lymphocyte system to the administration of N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC). HIV-positive patients bearing CD4 counts < 500 cells/mm3 measured by flow cytometry were studied. Patients were divided in 2 groups that received doses every 12 Hs during 1 mo., 8 cases Parenteral, 400 mg. 7 cases Oral, 600 mg. Five of the patients were being treated with AZT without significant change of CD4 counts. RESULTS: Two of the 8 successful cases became serum p24 antigen negative. The 6 cases of the parenteral group ceased to develop opportunistic infections so far. No side effects were reported in both groups. CONCLUSION: NAC associated to antiviral therapy can be a powerful immunotherapy drug. Current research effort is aimed to determine the clinical meaning of CD4-CD8 enhancement and the determination of a suitable maintenance schedule.

    Hope this is of some use for you.
    All the best,

  4. Applyn59

    Applyn59 New Member

    Curious about why your dr. tested your T-cells?
    Did you have to force him? LOL
    Also, how awful about the way appointments
    are scheduled!

    Do you always see the same dr in that office?
    When I went to the infectious disease dr. who
    was rude and made me cry, I always saw him.
    The one time I was the absolute worse I ever
    was, I called and they said if I went that on MOn,
    I would get a different dr., if I went on Tues,
    I would get the guy I always saw. So I took Tues.
    I get there and they gave me to a med student
    who knew nothing. I told him everything.
    I told him I was upset because they told me I was
    going to see the other dr and that was why I took
    the later date. I had excrutiating shoulder blade
    pain accompanied by waves of nausea. He
    never even touched me. After I made a little noise,
    the other dr came him and told the other one to
    feel my muscles. He didn't even do a good job.
    Then my dr. proceeded to tell me my problems
    were from anxiety. I don't know why I am telling
    you this. You just reminded me because of
    infectious disease dr. I thought he was the answer
    to my prayers in the beginning. When I became
    a difficult patient (healthwise) he wasn't so great.
    I will never forgive him for making fun of and light
    of my problems in front of a student. He seemed
    quite smart though but after that never wanted
    to see him again. I don't need to get all bunched
    up in knots (wrong description, I guess) and
    anxious because of his arrogance and treatment of me.
    However, sometimes I wonder if I should just forget it
    and give him another chance. I get nauseated just thinking of it. Do you think I am crazy??

    Sorry this got so long.
    Who lives in CT, too