**For those with TRAUMEEL questions--NEW!**

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by LollieBoo, Nov 17, 2005.

  1. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    Rest easy, y'all! If you were worried about taking Traumeel, but wanted to, I have the following to offer:

    Okay, I have seen many questions about the Belladonna, St. John's Wort and other ingredients in the Traumeel. While I had noted on other threads how the potentization process works, and said that it was very unlikely; not being an MD, I refrained from saying that there is NO interaction between those and Lortabs, Neurontin, etc.

    BUT, today, I talked to my Homeopath PCP (an MD) about it, who reassured me DEFINITELY that there was no reaction between Lortabs (or any other opoids/ pain meds) or Neurontin, or any of the commonly prescribed FM drugs. Homeopathy, in general is a good therapy to use in conjunction with allopathic therapies due to the unlikeliness of interactions.

    The St.John's Wort in Traumeel is a homeopathic preparation of St. John's Wort, meaning it is a potentized dilution- it would NOT be considered at all the same as the herb St. John's Wort. (see my other posts about the potentization process- it's too much to post again! Ever!)

    Again: Homeopathic St. John's Wort is entirely different than the herbal St. John's Wort. The warnings cited for St. John's Wort are not applicable to the Homeopathic preparation of St. John's Wort in Traumeel.

    I agree that it either seems to work or it doesn't. Homeopathy is very specific, and as FM symptoms/ causes are so diffuse it would be impossible for anything to be appropriate for all of us! To those that Traumeel didn't work for- do keep looking! There is a lot that homeopathy has to offer.

    AND- Perhaps a better solution (for those who would tend to flush remedies that aren't effective for what they are taking them for at that time) would be to 'muscle test' the unopened bottle (search 'Applied Kinesiology' on the site search engine and there is an explanation posted). If you are brave, you can do that in the store, and not have to spend the $$ at all if it is not likely to help you. If you do take it home to test it, remember to hold on to your receipt! If you have ordered it, you can muscle test the unopened bottle as soon as you get it. If you get a weak result from it, pack it back up and send it back. No waste, no lost $$, no worrying about anyone else's welfare!

    Also, there seems to be a few Guai users who have said they've used the Traumeel as well with no ill effects. I don't know enough about it, so we'll just leave that to the anecdotal evidence presented... Unless someone knows for sure!

    Take Care All!

    Wow. I really overuse the !, don't I? I must sound really excited all the time!! Or do I sound loud? Or emphatic? Uh-oh! Now I sound like I question everything! (That's better!) !!! Time to go to bed FOR SURE!!!
  2. jhmitch

    jhmitch New Member

    Thanks for the detailed information, Lollie!

    My husband and I opted for the Traumeel Ointment (since he has a muscle tear) and it has worked pretty well for both of us.

    When I went to order another tube on the phone, the customer service person suggested we might want to try something called "ZEEL Ointment" for our arthritic knees. Has anyone heard of this product?

    Healing hugs to all,


  3. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    It is my understanding, however, that Traumeel is indicated for swelling of tissues and 'calming' of both the swelling and pain responses. Zeel is for osteoarthritic-type joint damage.

    I have had experience with the Traumeel Cream, mostly for acute injuries and obvious tissue damage (for long-term damage and imbalances causing pain/ swelling, I have always opted for the oral administration). I have never had first-hand experience with the Zeel ointment. I have had people tell me (in a healthfood store setting) that it had worked well either for themselves or for a friend, but I take that with the assumption that IF they took it home and it did NOT work for them, they would much less likely tell me. On the other hand, many people would make sure to tell me of a negative experience, so if that is a better assumption to work with- nobody has ever told me specifically that Zeel was ineffective for helping with osteoarthritis. So it all depends on how you choose to look at the second-hand reports!

    From what I unterstand, whereas Traumeel decreases pain and inflammation, Zeel aims to restore balance, integrity and proper functioning to the synovial membranes. This seems to me to be a very important component of healing and preventing the cartilage break-down that occurs in osteoarthritis. I also think that it is a good idea to apply it in the form of a topical ointment.

    There is no blood supply to cartilage, or other connective tissues (ligaments and tendons), as well as within the joints. The synovial fluid contains all of the available nutrients for lubricating and healing damaged tissues within the joint capsule. The only way it circulates within the joint capsule is through movement. The synovial membrane is designed to allow passage of needed nutrients in, bad things out, while maintaining the amount of fluid within the capsule to permit circulation of synovial fluid to all articulating parts (that's the parts of the joint that rub against one another- ideally should be smooth and well-padded by cartilage)of the joint.

    Sublingual homeopathics get directly into the blood stream, and would bypass the digestive process, but after that, they would go the usual route that other nutrients would to get to the needed joints. I would think that would take longer than if you rubbed it directly into the tissues surrounding the joint.

    The final thing I would like to note about Zeel Topical is that it does contain non-plant/ mineral derived substances. In other words, part of the process in creating Zeel uses animal products (although a substantially minimal amount, which is then further diluted through the process of potentization). The animal products used are those that would contribute to the fortification of the synovial membrane and to the restoration of damaged cartilage.

    Good Luck to you, Janice, and to Starcat- keep us up with how it goes on Chocolat's (HUGE) thread!

    [This Message was Edited on 11/18/2005]
  4. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    The main thing that I see in her case is that homeopathy aims to balance and restore natural processes. Previous surgeries will sometimes delay overall progress with functional improvement. She may feel relatively mild improvements within the first week, but it may be longer before it is not just symptomatic relief (like just for the immediate time around application).

    It bears mentioning again, since your mother has had surgery, that she needs to keep the joint moving to circulate synovial fluid. If it was a knee replacement, that is why they had her in the CPM-device the day after surgery. Without that movement, the joint would never heal.

    Since we are talking homeopathics still, it is important that the skin be clean (no other lotions or creams, especially the menthol-ones).

    Good Luck!
  5. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    I'd probably do the Traumeel sublingually (so she knew she could take it more or less as desired for pain), and use the Zeel topically, for the Cartilage regeneration.

    Beyond that, it all depends on how aggressively she would want to try to be in avoiding knee-replacement surgery, but there are other additive things she could look at.

  6. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    Jarrow has some GREAT formulas out there. If she is already taking calcium- Jarrow's Bone-Up is a fantastic upgrade, and their Bio-Sil is excellent- the liquid is absolutely putrid (and I've tried some pretty foul things- this is truly awful), but you can actually see and feel improvements in connective tissues rather quickly. I had talked to the company quite a bit years ago to see if they could get into a capsule or softgel and was told they were 'trying', so I don't know if that option is yet available, or as bioavailable/ potent as the drops. They are relatively inexpensive, though.

    Another good oral inflammatory is New Chapter's Zyflamend, which I know that ProHealth carries on this site. It uses 'Supercritical Extracts' of certain herbs (like their Ginger, Oregano and Rosemary). There are different ways of extracting the potency of herbs in different formulas: alcohol extractions are pretty potent, standardized extracts elevate what is believed to be the 'active' ingredient of the herb, minimizing the supportive nutrients, there some other additional ways of creating different extractions of herbs, but they all require some sort of solvent to release the medicinal parts of the plant. The neat thing about a supercritical extraction is that it uses a sort of compression (Think of a garlic press- you get all of the volatile oils, and a sort of macerated extrusion of the whole herb. Way Potent!) The bottle says: "Supercritical" means super purity, super potency, broad spectrum, and no chemical solvents. We take nature's herbs and then extract and highly concentrate (as high as 250 to 1) their precious ingredients." It is just as effective in my experience (if not more effective) than prescription antinflammatories.

    Vioxx and Celebrex were taken off the market, but many people enjoyed that they suppressed the Cox-2 enzyme, but left the Cox-1 alone. That meant little to no digestive problems. Not only is Zyflamend also a Cox-2 inhibitor as they both were, but with the supercritical ginger, there are actually positive effects on the digestion. There are also components of some of the other ingredients that would support the circulatory system as well. I'm all for a product that strengthens and balances systems that are awry, rather than simply suppress symptoms!

    The other thing she may consider is a high-quality EFA supplement- Expeller-pressed, organic flax seed oil (a refrigerated liquid form)is a great option, because it tastes good if you mix it with the right things (nothing HOT is the first rule). I like it on salads with just a squeezed lemon on top. It is also fabulous in cottage cheese- so is ground flax seed- then she would get the added benefit of fiber. EFA's are essential to the production of prostaglandins, as well as cellular healing processes. Whatever form, it is essential that it be kept in an opaque packaging and kept cool. The more oxygen that reaches it as you use it, the less potent it becomes. Heat kills all of the naturally-occuring lipase (the enzyme needed to digest fats- so you get the most benefit).

    Proteolytic enzymes are FABULOUS for reducing swelling and for assisting in clearing out the 'bad stuff' gooking up the synovial fluid. If it is from plant sources- eat up! I know of only one high-dose plant-based proteolytic enzyme, and that is from Enzymedica- it's called Purify. That has always been what I have used- works fabulous on bruising! Anecdotally, I have heard raves beyond raves about Wobenzym, which ProHealth carries on this site, I think. It uses a mixture of non-plant-based and plant-based enzymes.

    Bromelain and Papain are common proteolytic enzymes, FYI. Fresh Pineapple and Papaya... that is why jello won't set if you try to put pineapple in it. The bromelain breaks down the proteins!

    The other standard, very effective cartilage rebuilding and support things available are Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM. Not so affordable in most cases.

    So again, it is what she is willing to do. Some people want to aggressively fight to avoid the surgery, and some just see it as an inevitability and are willing to try to control the symptoms and try to help to have the most positive outcome and successful recovery following. Either way, any combination of these things will be better than doing nothing! ; )

    Good Luck!

    p.s. see disclaimer above- always do your own thorough research before deciding!
  7. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    keep us posted! I think (I am foggy, however!) I read on another thread that you were not feeling so great on the Traumeel... am I wrong?

    Do let me know!

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