Glutathione. Oral or IV?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by deliarose, May 17, 2006.

  1. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    Hi
    I've seen it said a couple of times on this board that the best way to take glutathione/undenatured whey is orally.. ie in powder form or whatever.

    I see some docs give it in an IV, eg Patricia Salvato in Houston.

    I was toying with the idea of getting a GSH IV. I thought it might be more effective that way.. but now I'm woondering if I would be wasting my time and money.

    Can anyone enlighten me.. Have there been studies done on this issue?
    Cheers
    Delia
  2. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    I am a big fan of glutathione as it has literally saved my life. I am getting it IV, 2000mg 3x/week. In one of the iv's each week, I also get 5 grams of magnesium.

    There is evidence that those with CFS/FMS/MCS are severely depleted in glutathione. For some, it may be a genetic problem--google glutathione-s-transferase to learn more. For those affected by this genetic variation, they may have trouble making glutathione or utilizing it properly.

    I get my iv glutathione from Wellness Pharmacy. They also offer an oral liquid glutathione that they say is not broken down and lost in the digestive system. They have many articles about glutathione on their website.

    You can increase glutathione by taking the precursors--whey protein (I can't due to dairy intolerance), alpha lipoic acid, NAC, etc. However, for me, I don't benefit alot apparently by taking the precursors.

    One thing I will note is that not everyone tolerates glutathione or some of the precursors. This may be due to sulfur intolerance. So someone who is intolerant of foods like onions, garlic, and cruciferous veggies, and certain supplements such as SAMe, Methionine, etc., may not tolerate glutathione. That is possibly due to sulfur sensitivities and the sulfur oxidation phase which is linked to glutathione synsthesis.

    If you want to read very informative materials re glutathione, check out articles by Rich Van Konynenburg, Phd. They are excellent. Blessings to you. Jen102
  3. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    Are u getting the IVs from an MD or a naturopath?
    and how long have u been getting them?
    Cheers
    Delia
  4. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    from an M.D., and now a D.O. Actually, the glutathione I am able to do at home, so just get a monthly shipment per my perscription from Wellness. The magnesium must be done in the D.O. office as there are some risks, (low blood pressure--though mine always goes up--go figure).
  5. JenniferAnn539

    JenniferAnn539 New Member

    Jen,

    Have you noticed an improvement in your health and a reduction of your symptoms since starting the glutatione?

    If so, how long until you noticed an improvement?

    Is glutathione covered by insurance or are you paying out of pocket? How much does it cost monthly?

    I did glutatione a few years ago, but I am thinking that maybe I did not give it a long enough time to work...

    You mentioned that you are doing it a home... Are you giving yourself injection or does someone come to you and administer it into a vein?

    Thanks in advance.

    Jennifer
  6. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    I have been taking it for almost a year and continue to make improvements in all symptoms of cfs, fms, and mcs. When I first started it, i was deathly ill, and had in fact made my funeral arrangements. blah.

    I was so sick when I started them, that I don't have a clear answer to your q's about how soon I felt better. My best recollection is that they gave me headaches and made me feel a bit icky (real technical term) immediately. the headaches would usually be gone the next day. I felt a bit more alive and a bit more energy, though, I think, immediately.

    I am taking a fairly high dose--think you would have to do it intravenously to get this dose rather than by injection. The nurse basically showed me how to pull the glutathione and a small amount of saline into a big syringe. You then put a butterfly needle with a short tubing on the syringe, insert the needle into a vein, and inject it over about 3 minutes. I am quite squeemish, but when your life is at stake, you will be suprised what you can do. I use veins in my hand, feet, forearms and antecubital (inside of elbows). It truly is not a big deal at this point for me.

    I realize not everybody gets the kind of miracle benefit from glutathione that I have. They may not be depleted in the first place--may not have the genetic issues--so that glutathione isn't needed--though I think anyone with CFS or MCS likely has deficiency. If it doesn't agree with someone, it could be the sulfur sensitivity, as glut is a sulfur-based molecule. If it doesn't do anything for you, I would see if you could have bigger dosages and closer together. I was getting twice weekly and crashed in between dosages. I am getting to the point now where I might possibly be able to go to twice weekly--don't want to find out right now, but want to keep with what works.

    I am still quite ill, but going in the right direction. My prescription of glutathione is covered by insurance, BCBS. They treat each item, the glut, the syringes, the needle, etc. as separate prescriptions, so I have a deductible on each. The cost out of pocket would be $360/mo for my high dosage and frequency. They have been paid for at the doctor office, except for a co-pay.

    If you are wondering if you have the genetic issues with glut production, Genova (formerly Great Smokies) has a detoxigenomic test that may be helpful. It costs about $350-$400.

    Hope this helps. I am still quite ill, but going the right direction and trying to plan a garden rather than a funeral! Much more fun. Jen
    [This Message was Edited on 05/17/2006]
  7. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    for those who had q's.
  8. TXFMmom

    TXFMmom New Member

    From my research on it, they ease you onto it, trying IM, if you have had the problems for a long time.

    Otherwise, the herxing would scare most of us off.

    Freeing up mercury and contaminants and correction of intracellular flutathione would cause great swings at first and by starting out slowly, the herxing would be minimized and then, slowly the dosage increased so tolerance an ccompliance is improved.
  9. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    We started at the dose of 1400 mg, just in case i proved allergic to the glutathione (I am severely chemically sensitive and allergic to many things). The doctor didn't express any concerns about herxing.

    I have read some concerns (not sure how well substantiated) about taking things slowly if you have high heavy metal levels, such as mercury. If I recall correctly, the concern might be moving the mercury into the brain if it is dumped all at once.

    I think the biggest risk of adverse effects is if you are sensitive to sulfur.

    Like I said, I got a headache the day of an infusion at first, but I was severely depleted on magnesium too, and we added that to the iv (slow drip over an hour). On the days I get both now I still get a master blaster headache on that evening, but I attribute it more to the magnesium, or my feeling is taht the mag potentiates the glutathione.

    Oh, I got glutathione from a different pharmacy once because it was cheaper, but it caused headaches each time administered, so went back to wellness pharmacy. Blessings. Jen
  10. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    It's interesting you mention nebulising.

    Marty Pall, a biochemist at Washington State University, who is going to publish a book on the treatment of CFS says nebulising is the way to go with glutathione.

    Presumably, it's the most effective route?

    Also, I never realised that if you got an MD to prescribe this stuff, you could get it covered by insurance.

    I'll have to look into that.

    Cheers
    Delia

  11. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    There is one Rich Van Konynenburg article that lists all the ways that glutathione can be taken (I think suppositories are available too) and lists the places where you can get the products. It is a great article.

    I am quite familiar with Marty Pall's theories. I have been trying to get my doc to try me on ketamine iv's, as it supposedly breaks the cycle that Pall talks about--can't remember all the details now--in the NMDA cycle in the brain, has to do with nitric oxide, etc. I can see how nebulizing would help you to get it to the brain quickly. jen102
  12. JenniferAnn539

    JenniferAnn539 New Member

    Jen,

    Thanks so much for taking the time to provide me with so much information on your experience with using the glutatione.

    I apologize for not posting sooner, as I was too sick.

    I am amazed that you are able to access a vein all by yourself. I have managed to handle doing injections, but I think getting a vein on myself is beyond me.

    I am going to consider trying glutathione again, and perhaps give it a little more time to see if I see any improvement.

    Good luck with your protocol, I certainly hope it continues to make you feel better.

    Thanks again for the info and effort it took to relay it to me!

    Jennifer
  13. elliespad

    elliespad Member

    Because this is important info.
  14. berrytired

    berrytired New Member

    L-cysteine serves as a precursor for synthesis of proteins, glutathione, taurine, coenzyme A and inorganic sulfate. Glutathionine itself has a number of biochemical functions, including maintenance of normal cellular redox state. Certain conditions, e.g. an acetaminophen overdose, can deplete hepatic glutathione, and this can be life-threatening. The antidote to an acetaminophen overdose is L-cysteine, in the delivery form of N-acetylcysteine. The L-cysteine derived from N-acetylcysteine helps to restore hepatic glutathione.

    I just copied that...I take L-Cysteine. As well as Whey with water not dairy. Tablet form.
  15. alaska3355

    alaska3355 New Member

    Where can you get glutathione levels tested?
  16. JenniferAnn539

    JenniferAnn539 New Member

    bumping to thank Jen for her info.
  17. ANNXYZ

    ANNXYZ New Member

    and probably would not bother even testing it . We can also assume most of us HAVE low NK cell counts .

    These , I believe are the hurdles that keep us from really getting better .

    I would like to know more about nebulizing . I absolutely believe the glutathione is a critical factor for us , and would like to know more about nebulizing .
    Unfortunately , many of us are not able to afford IV's ( and you would HAVE to do them for a while to get lasting benefit ) . Also , the injections are not practical for everyone , though I think the liquid glut. for injections can be affordable .

    Can anyone tell us more about nebulizing , how it is done and the cost involved?

    Also , jarjar was a patient of Salvato and I think he took a GLUTATHIONE booster she sold in her office
    ( Nitroplex ? ) Perhaps he can clarify .
  18. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    nebulising with glutathione and using a GSH nasal spray.
    Haven't tried it yet, but plan to...
    Delia
  19. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    for a number of days. Here is the link to the Rich Van Konynenburg article that has specific info about different glutathione products available and where you can get them. It is a very good article. It may go from one line to the next, but the title is Augmenting Glutathione in CFS:
    http://www.phoenix-cfs.org/Glutathione%20Building%20in%20CFS.htm

    There is another very long article by the same author that is something like Is Glutathione Depletion the Pathogenesis of CFS, but I couldn't find the link right now for some reason. There are also articles discussing the similarities between autism and CFS--gut and brain issues, depletion of glutathione. He has also written some articles about why some people who are severely depleted in glutathione can't tolerate it--could be problems in other detox systems such as sulfuration.

    I so appreciate the work of Mr. Van Konynenburg and Prof. Pall. These are the types of people who are going to ultimately unlock the door for us to be healed. Blessings to you, and thanks for your notes of appreciaton. I have learned so much from others, and am happy to pass on something that has helped me. Jen102
  20. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    Try this link. If it doesn't work, google the title and Van Konynenburg and you will get several links. Best wishes. Jen102

    www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/research/treatment/21.htm