Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by nah.stacey, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. nah.stacey

    nah.stacey Member

    I am at the end of my rope with these ignorant Dr.'s who say that CF/FM is caused by depression.

    By a show of emails.

    Which came first, the DD or depression.
    Most of the people I have talked with that have this DD were high energy, optimistic, happy people before they got taken down by this thing.
    I was a 4'11" previous gymnast/cheerleader with the happy personality of a kangaroo. and as they say "Look at me now". I have lost me and I don't know who this other woman is. My husband married me in part because I was so happy and upbeat and always smiling. I feel so badly for him, for what he is left with. He would never think or say that but I do.

    Let me know what your thoughts are Please.
  2. nah.stacey

    nah.stacey Member

    I just meant that most doctors think you were depressed FIRST and that caused you to end up with your illness. I think NOT.
  3. onset1990

    onset1990 Member

    I had suffered a ten year long depressive episode after my mother died when I was young. Intensive analysis and lifestyle changes made me into a new person. I left a bad marriage, a bad job and started a new life. I was in aerobics twice a week (I LOVE aerobics) and raising two girls on my own. New, great boyfriend, stellar career jumps, and I was on my way.

    Then I got the flu (4 years later). That "very violent flu like illness" someone called it. We were in Vegas in 1990 for a convention by the time I realized I was really ill with the flu and should have stayed home. I was never well again. Never able to go to aerobics again without becoming seriously ill.

    I do suffer a different depression from time to time with CFS. But I know the difference between depression and CFS depression. They are very different. CFS depression feels like it's caused by changes in chemistry due to immune system activation by a virus, and it lifts quite suddenly unlike clinical depression. I am quite able to distinguish between symptoms after 20 years of this.

    If I ever get clinical depression again. I will know it. My CFS was not caused by, nor is it a symptom of clinical depression.
    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2009]
  4. hensue

    hensue New Member

    Believe that was depression
    I was sick with the flu, the doctors had given me antibiotics over 3 times. Then all these other pains started.
    Went to Emory in Atlanta where the freakin cdc is the neurologist told me classic fibro and chronic fatigue.
    Yes I was very active 2 children worked full time, ran, swam almost everyday you name it I was in the gym. Talking to people, going everywhere I possibly could.
    It stopped me in my tracks it took about a year for me to grieve for my past life.
    The doctor told me to get over it would not kill me it would just feel like I wanted to die.
    so really she made me accept it.
    Now I can tell the pain doc i go to and my internist I think they think it is all up in my head!!!
  5. karynwolfe

    karynwolfe New Member

    Ugh. If you end up around a doctor that says depression causes Fibromyalgia or any other unrelated illness, move on. That belongs in the stone ages by now. Find a good rheumatologist, if you can! I use the doctor rating websites to figure out who is good and who has bad reviews.

    But since you put "CF" I shoudl add that depression can cause chronic fatigue... Chronic fatigue, being chronically tired, is a symptom of depression, of fibromyalgia, of AIDS, of diabetes... Doesn't mean anything other than it's a sign that something is wrong!

    Depression can't give you fibromyalgia any more than depression can give you multiple sclerosis.

    I'm pretty sure your husband married you for better or worse. If he misses the "old" you, that's a perfectly normal reaction--you miss the old you, too!--but I bet he doesn't blame YOU for it, so dont' blame yourself, either. You're going throug a tough time but things always change, so this will, too, and you'll get through it together. You'd still love him if he got sick, and he still loves you. =)

  6. jasminetee

    jasminetee Member

    They say it because Reeves who heads the CFS Dept. at the CDC says it is so. He changed the definition to fit 3 million depressed people into CFS. It's all his fault. Totally and completely. Those docs are just following the definition.

    I'm not depressed. I am very ill and in constant intractable pain. I loved aerobics too and I know how you feel missing your gymnast days and how everyone here feels that loved to exercise. I pray that we will again some day.
  7. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    I have had Fibro/CFS now for over twenty years. I was not depressed in my entire life, in fact I had no idea what people meant when they said they were depressed. That is the most stupid cause of these illnesses I have ever heard of!

    Even being sick, I was still high energy, never stopped even with the pain, just keep on keeping on. The CFS did not start untill about 4 years ago, but it never last more than a week at the longest.

    I have had Situational Depression for the last two years, and I can assure you it has nothing to do with FM/CFS! It does not make things better, but it is not the cause of the depression that I do have now.

    In fact, I have less flares of the FM since I have Situational Depression! Sounds crazy, but its the truth.

    That doctor needs his head examined............

    Shalom, Shirl
  8. victoria

    victoria New Member

    Pam Weintraub, who writes a blog at Psychology Today, had a good blog about this subject:

    Emerging Diseases
    Patients at the crossroads of new diseases and chronic ills.
    by Pamela Weintraub

    Labeling sick patients psychiatric is medical abuse.
    Over the past year, forces at the highest reaches of medicine have made ever stronger efforts to burden the sick, diseased, and infected with psychiatric labels, consigning them to often mind-numbing psych meds and untreated infection, immune dysfunction, and pain. Some critics see this as psychiatric abuse at the hands of non-psychiatrists --since it is rarely psychiatrists, but rather, those in other specialities who step outside the circle of their training to impose these crude diagnoses on the medically ill....

    rest of the article is at:

    (Pamela Weintraub is a senior editor at Discover Magazine and author of Cure Unknown: Inside the Lyme Epidemic, first place winner of the American Medical Writers Association book award, 2009.)

  9. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    Rafiki started a thread about an article in the guradian and comments people were writing related to this....don't remember the title of the thread but it was within the last couple of days

    anyway, I posted what I wrote in response re my own experiences with this whole issue...not going to repost it here - have to get to bed, but it should be easy to find if you are interested

    eta: I found the thread a few pages back - obviously haven't gone to bed yet....anyway, the title of the thread is The Guardian Newspaper Open Thread XMRV[This Message was Edited on 10/13/2009]
  10. nah.stacey

    nah.stacey Member

    Thank you soooo much for your thoughts on this.
    I needed some new verbiage to relate this thought to my "new" pain doctor.
    I am moving into a new pain clinic and this Practitioner was hopefully just the intake doctor and not the actual Dr. I will be seeing. I needed some new words to express myself and your thoughts are most helpful.
  11. Malcolm82

    Malcolm82 New Member

    I was the same way before this thing, CFIDS, hit me. I was an upbeat, 90 mile an hour unstoppable force. Now I'm just a shell of what I was. My wife keeps saying "I want my old husband back."

    And, 7 doctors tried to tell me my problem was psychiatric because they couldn't find anything "wrong" with me. The two that said it wasn't were my psychiatrist (thank God), and my 9th doctor who eventually diagnosed me. Sure I got depressed, when I couldn't figure out what the H had happened to me and these doctors were all saying I was "depressed"!

    I'm sure it probably happens the other way around, but I would be willing to bet money that depression is a secondary condition with most of us that have this DD.
  12. nah.stacey

    nah.stacey Member

    bumping this up again, I need more input. I have till Monday to get my case together.
    You guys are the best
    Thanks for all your help.
  13. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    were you able to find what I posted before? If not, I could add it here, too.....I just haven't done so yet bc I have been too exhausted and bc it is a bit definitely addresses this issue, though
  14. bigmama2

    bigmama2 New Member

    i have both. and they feel very different. easy to tell the difference for me. depression for me is hopeless, crying, intense sadness, bad thoughts, nothing is interesting fun. cfs is totally different for me- extreme exhaustion, sleeping nonstop, want to do things but have no energy, brainfog, feel hungover, weak, fluish/sick.

    unfort i had depr first. but in no way do i think depr caused my cfs.

  15. street129

    street129 New Member

    i had it all., i was a size 9, with the tiniest waist and would admired myself in every store window that i would pass, happily doing it daily, going to work and from anywhere i may be

    i was a little self-centered and was a happy one you ever did see,i was a big old brager about how pretty and so shapely i was, I WAS FIT.

    if THIS sound like someone depressed, then i don't know what feeling and looking good is.
    [This Message was Edited on 10/14/2009]
  16. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    had at least one study in their newsletter not all that long ago giving very clear physiological reasons why CFS and depression are different and why depression is not the cause of CFS....just tried to find it among my bookmarks and couldn't, but if you search their site you should be able to find it
  17. jasminetee

    jasminetee Member


    Take along an article about the XMRV finding. They keep saying in those that we are actually physically ill with a very nasty retrovirus.

    I've read many times the big difference CFS and depression is that with depression nothing sounds appealing or interesting to the person. They don't want to do anything. But ask a CFS patient what they would do if they could and they tell a laundry list of activities, often, including DOING the laundry- lol! That's a big difference.

    Here's a good site that should help you explain our situation:

  18. loto

    loto Member

    I think these diagnoses cause the depression!

    and, furthermore, the doctors who think this stuff is "all in our heads", (but of course life insurance companies must believe it's some kind of "real" issue because I was denied a term life ins. policy because of my FM),and the lack of research funding or whatever the reason is for the shortage of research, but, yes, they can give money to NASA to send a frickin rocket to plow into the moon to see if there's water or ice there, WHO CARES IF THE MOON HAS ICE OR WATER ON IT??????
    NOW that makes me depressed!!!!
    [This Message was Edited on 10/15/2009]
  19. nah.stacey

    nah.stacey Member

    I looked and looked back through the previous pages and couldn't find the article you were referring to. I finally have to give up, I only have a short window at a time that I can sit and type.
    Otherwise I think my hip joints will explode. No Joke, they are that bad
  20. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    I didn't re-post it here originally bc it is pretty long, and slightly out of context (I was responding to others' comments, inc some concerns from people with depression, who worried that people with CFS are making the stigma worse for them).... anyway, since you can't find it, here it is (oh, and the words with < > around them were italicized in the article, but they showed up here with these <> instead):

    As one who has struggled with depression and PTSD and who became a counselor after recovering from both, I understand all too well what it is like to have a mental illness. Despite the stigma, I have no problem sharing what I have been through with others. I also believe very strongly in the power of counseling, including CBT.

    I have often wished that ME/CFS was a form of mental illness, because if it were, there would be more of a possibility of truly getting well. I can also tell you that when I struggled with mental illness, people were more compassionate towards me than they have been with ME/CFS. From what I have seen, the stigma associated with ME/CFS is worse than that associated with mental illness (and no, I am not downplaying the way that people with mental illnesses are often treated. I think it is horrible and undeserved. I am just relaying my own experience.)

    The reason that I do not want to be told that this is depression or some other form of mental illness, is that it is not. Insisting that it is, has led to treatments such as CBT and GET being used as the only treatments, and that has not only not helped, but has actually harmed many. And, it has not led to other, more effective treatments being found.

    If people with cancer, AIDS, or MS were constantly told that they had mental illnesses and were limited to treatments like CBT and GET, no one would question their frustration. No one would say that they were just afraid to be stigmatized and were causing those with mental illnesses to be further stigmatized in the process. That has nothing to do with their desire to "distance themselves" from mental illness, as someone wrote here. It has everything to do with wanting to find effective treatments so that they can get their lives back.

    That is exactly how ME/CFS patients feel. We have nothing against people with mental illness, and we can empathize with how they are treated. However, those feelings do not change what we have, nor will they make CBT any more effective for treating ME/CFS. CBT is effective for helping people to cope with having a devastating physical illness, but using it as a treatment for that illness itself is not effective and is seriously hampering the search for more effective treatments.

    Before getting ME/CFS, even when I was depressed, and more so when I had recovered from it, I had a much, much fuller, busier, more active life. I worked full time, went to school full time and got almost straight As, went to church, had an active social life, spent time with my family, and was very active physically. Among other things, I trained for and ran full marathons. I absolutely loved doing them. I also did things like sky diving, traveling, going to museums and aquariums, and photography. I had hopes for a family and plans for a career spent helping others.

    ME/CFS has taken all these things and more from me. I did not stop doing them because I am depressed. I am very sad that I can no longer do them. I did not stop doing them becasue I had "irrational illness beliefs" and mistakenly thought that doing very little would help. On the contrary, I tried to continue them as long as I possibly could, and that made me keep getting sicker. I only backed off when my body absolutely would not let me do them any more. I did not stop exercising as I used to because I was afraid of exercise. I am afraid, very afraid, that I will not be able to do those things again. Running, especially has brought me joy for 26 years. It kills me to think that I may never be able to run again. I miss running tremendously. I miss my life tremendously. I want that life back.

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