Greenbean a question about training and dog food

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by ckball, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. ckball

    ckball New Member

    How are you doing bean? I wanted to ask you about training. How many hours a day would you spend with a dog for obedience? I know it probably depends on the temperment of the dog.

    A freind of mine I go dncing with told me you told her about Flint River Ranch dog food. She wanted you to know that she has her 2 labs and chicwawa totally switched over with a problem and it is working well. She wasn't able to tell you herself so I am passing it along. She says thank you very much for all your help. Carla
  2. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    I have a question too. Carla I hope you don't mind me jumping in on your thread.

    My dog has very bad separation anxiety and anxiety in general.

    The other night we had strong winds and I couldn't sleep all night cause she was whining and panting and shaking the bed.

    She is also affraid of thunderstorms too.

    Before my boyfriend and I moved we lived with his dad and sister and they had two cats and a dog. Most of the time someone was home but when she was left alone she would sometimes tear at this bath mat at the bottom of the stairs or maybe poop in the house.

    It wasn't all the time though. And nothing like now. Was it because the other pets were home?

    However, NOW we moved into our own place 7 months ago and we can't leave her alone in the house. 1 month after we moved we left her alone for an hour and she tore up the entry way trying to get out of the house. She tore one side of the door frame right off and pooped and peed in the house.

    Thank goodness she didn't hurt herself.

    Ever since we have to drop her off at our old house 25 minutes away if we will both be gone from the house.

    I don't know what to do. I tried rescue remedy but it doesn't seem to work on her. As soon as she sees us putting on our shoes and coats she starts getting scared and whining.

    Any advice????

  3. ckball

    ckball New Member

    I would suggest going to the Dog Whisper's website. He has a lot of great info. His name is Ceasar Milan, just google Dog Whisperer. Maybe Bean will have more help-CArla
  4. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    Thanks Carla! I will check out the website.

    Take Care :)
  5. Greenbean7

    Greenbean7 New Member

    CK - Thanks for the kudos on the dog food. I keep seeing where more brands are being recalled but you won't see Flint River on that list!

    On obedience training there are a lot of variables that go into the training. How old is the dog, breed (yes, it matters), any previous training and are we talking about basic obedience or are you considering showing the dog in obedience trials?

    If you've got a new pup start with just a few minutes several times a day. If the dog is older you can usually start out with a 10 or 15 minute session several times a day. You'll know when you've lost his attention. If he gets bored play for a while and then try again.

    Now by "session" I mean time spent exclusivly working on a behaviour you want. Obedience training, however, is constant and consistant. Every opportunity to praise a good behavior is a training opportunity.

    For instance if you have been working on "sit" and while you are watching TV or cooking dinner you notice the dog sit just say "Rey, good sit!" You didn't have to ask him to do it, but he will begin to put the sit command and the good sit response together.

    The first thing the dog needs to know is that you are the leader. Mine are not allowed on the bed or the furniture. Only the alpha dogs get to be on that raised platform, and that's me (and my DH)! If you want the dog on the bed he needs to wait until he has been invited and he needs to leave the bed as soon as you tell him to. This is hard for a lot of people, especially with small dogs, but I find that I get better consistant results with this approach.

    To be a good "leader" you must be firm and consistant. Anyone else who is working with you on the training needs to be the same way.

    I recommend a drag line. A 4 ft nylon lead that you can leave on the dog as long as he is being supervised. (Not out alone in the yard or alone in the house or in his crate.) When you walk past him, pick up the lead and he will just get up and go with you. They usually want to be with their human.

    The first thing I want my dogs to know is how to walk on the leash. Use the leash and walk backward while talking to the dog and praising him, "good check" is what I say each time the dog looks up at me. I get pretty gushy with mine telling them how beautiful they are and stuff that would make my DH go insane, but happy upbeat tone of voice calls for gushy silly words for me! Each time their mind wanders a little, give them a little pop and keep talking to them.

    After a few days of walking backward and talking to them just turn around and keep talking and walking and the dog will pretty much just step into position beside you and walk with you. If their mind wanders, which it will, just use that little pop for a correction and when they look up at you it's "good check".

    Once you have a dog walking with you and have convinced him you are the leader (it's harder with some than others and little dogs can be a lot tougher than big dogs! They are pretty sure they are the boss!) it's much easier to get them to sit, down, etc.

    I never use "good dog" by the way and very seldom tell them "no". I've seen too many dogs who seem to think there name is "no" or "good boy". Good sit, good down, good stay, good car, etc. They will actually make the connection.

    Cesar Milan is an excellant source. He will recommend exercise, disapline, and affection in that order. He is awesome with his dogs. He has books out but be careful. I have seen "Dog Whisperer" books that are not his and I want Cesar!!

    I have methods for sit, down and stay if you want more, but this is getting really long and you probably have to take the dog out!


    Stop and smell the puppies!
  6. Greenbean7

    Greenbean7 New Member

    Hey Pam,

    A lot of dogs who suffer from what we term separation anxiety are actually trying to find out who the leader is so that someone with show them what to do! You are the leader!

    We all know that dogs were domesticated from wolves, coyotes, etc. Wolves have a pecking order and the lower wolves look for the alpha wolves for guidance and safety. We need to give our dogs that same type of security.

    For a dog that is as anxious as yours I recommend a crate. Some people think that using a crate is for disipline and I cannot emphasize enough that is not it's purpose!

    A dog in a crate is a dog in a safe "den". In your case I would use the crate anytime the dog is left alone. Give him a favorite toy and a nylabone to chew on and he will probably feel a lot safer then when he is loose in the house.

    If he is not already crate trained, start by putting a treat in the back of the crate and leaving the door open. Let him go in and out without the door closing behind him. Tell him how good he is when he goes in and start using the term "crate" or "kennel" when he goes in. Often times you will find the dog taking a nap in the crate! He will realize that this is a good safe place. We leave the crate door open and I never know which one will be in there. The lab, Aster, was not crate trained, but she will go sleep in it to get away from the golden, Rey!

    It may take a while before the dog is comfortable but if you have an immediate need to contain the dog I wouldn't hesitate to put him in the crate and go do what you have to do. He won't like it at first and it isn't as gentle as what I've mentioned above, but for his own safety it may be necessary to force the issue.

    The crate may save your rugs, furniture, etc!

    Your dog may have been more comfortable when she wasn't an "only dog". But I am going to assume that the other dog was the alpha dog. She had a leader.

    How often do you put on your shoes and take her for a walk? Not just turn her out in the yard, but take her for a nice long walk. The act of putting on your shoes would trigger a different response if she thought there might be some "me" time involved. Of course crating her before you put on your shoes will put her in her "safe" place and might help with the reaction she has to you getting ready to leave.

    As I mentioned to CK, Cesar is awesome! Watch his show and read his books and you will get a lot of help with your dog. I don't know if he recommends crate training or not, but I've never heard him say one thing I would disagree with!!


    Stop and smell the puppies!

    PS - If storms and possibly fireworks are still a problem you might check with your vet for some "doggie downers". There are stronger things than Nature's Remedy. I've never had to use it, but I have found both dogs in the crate during a storm! One extra large crate and two extra large dogs! It's a pretty snug fit!

    [This Message was Edited on 04/20/2007]
  7. ckball

    ckball New Member

    I have a 2 yo lab mix and a 3 yo aussie shepherd mix. I have the walk down, they still try when we run into other dogs on our walks. The come to me and tell me when they want me to walk..

    Inside the house they listen most of the time. But if a 4 wheeler or motorcycle come by and they can't get out I can not shut them up. We are all alphas, Twylia the assuie tests me, I do use the word no such as no bark, no chase. They both chase cars, scares the crap out of me. I live in the counrty in a area that is pretty private. Most dogs are not fenced and usually say in their own yards. It is when someone comes down this road they go off and I can not get a hold of them or make them stop barking. They are protecting me, which is what I wanted but they border on Cujo when a horse and rider came by the other day.

    I always watch Cesear, it is hard when it is 2 against one that one is sick, tired, busy just getting daily chores done.

    Thanks for the advice but mainly wanted you to know you helped someone and they appretciated it. Know what I mean. There are a few good people gone from the board now. Carla
  8. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    Hopefully we can get this under control. She is a very needy dog at this point. She has never been crate trained. We got her when she was 6 months old from someone. She had issues at his house as well.

    She is 5 years old now so hopefully she will learn to be ok alone. The dog at the other house was a male dog if that makes a difference. I guess he may have been the alpha.

    We did take her for walks every day when we first moved in to this place. Sometimes twice a day. But she still would get scared when she saw us getting ready to leave. I think because usually the walks were one person taking her. So when she sees us both getting ready she knows that we are leaving rather than going for a walk.

    The walks are not as often anymore. I have been feeling lousy for months and my boyfriend has just gotten lazy with it as he is tired when he gets home from work.

    Anyhow thank you for the advice. I will have to work with her and see if we can get this under control. I really appreciate you getting back to me.

    I don't have a crate so I will have to look into getting one.

    Will she flip out in the crate? I would worry about her hurting herself trying to get out of it when we leave the house. I guess that is why we ease her into the that she finds it a safe place first.

  9. Greenbean7

    Greenbean7 New Member

    She may "flip out" in the crate at first. It will depend on her. She may find it soothing right away, she may need more time to adapt.

    My lab, Aster, had never been in the crate until she was 7 or 8 and she adapted very quickly. We usually only crate one of them when they are ill, saves the house!!

    I recommend putting the crate in a corner so two sides are to the wall. To calm her more, put a blanket over the crate so the front and side that is away from the wall are also covered. The crate won't go clear up against the wall so there should be plenty of ventilation for her.

    Sounds to me like that would be the best thing to try. After that it would have to be the "doggie downers" evertime she is alone and I don't like that idea at all. You might try the drugs when you first start the crate though. Make sure the crate is big enough for her to turn around and lay down in, but not much bigger than that.


    Stop and smell the puppies!
  10. Greenbean7

    Greenbean7 New Member

    Hey Carla,

    Mine go nuts when they see something out side that they don't think should be there. In fact I think Rey makes things up just to get Aster to bark!

    Aster gets sent to "her" room if she won't quit. That's actually our bedroom, but anymore just the threat of "do you want to go to your room!" will make her shut up. She makes this pitiful whinning noise after I get her to stop barking. The same noise she makes when ever she gets excited. That's why she doesn't do well in the duck blind!

    Usually, if the DH isn't in the house, I just ask them if Timmy's in the well again (that darn Timmy!) and than tell them it's ok, I'm safe. They stop fairly quickly.

    Friday night the neighbor was out in the hay field with my DH and the neighbor's two dogs. Now, my dogs are never loose except when we throw the ball in the five acre field. They are house dogs and do not go outside without us and usually on lead. They don't visit the neighbors. Aster was going nuts when she saw them so I opened the back door and turned 'em loose. Just didn't seem fair that mine had to be in the house when the neighbor kids were playing in our field!

    After the hackle raising and sniffing was done Rey played with the other kids and Aster started hunting the ditch bank. Even though they've now met, mine will still let me know when they see them in our yard.

    If the dogs are giving you a problem on lead when they see another dog they are not paying attention to the "boss". Cesar does some great tips on that problem to get them to ignore the other dogs. I use them with Rey. Things like getting his attention before he sees the other dog. A light touch with my foot on his hip/leg to make him look and see what touched him. That's gets his attention back on me. It takes a lot of work, but you can do it with patience and consistancy. I'd also take them one at a time for practice.

    I can handle both at once even though I walk with a cane. Rey is next to me on a short leash (actually pretty much a handle on a clip). That short leash also keeps him close enough that he can help keep me from falling over. Aster is on the outside of him on a normal lead.

    Dogs, just like us, are really different from each other. Some methods work with some, not with others. It really is trial and error to see what works. But the main thing is exercise, disipline, and affection, in that order (that's Cesar's line, not mine!). Consistancy.


    Stop and smell the puppies!