Guai May Increase Our Immunity

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Mikie, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I was doing some research and came across this info regarding Guaifenesin. I have always suspected that there is more to the story than Dr. St. Amand's theory regarding how the Guai reverses FMS symptoms. If our immunity is strengthened, we will feel better and the Guai may play a role in healthier immunity. I found this in the Journal of Immunity.

    Love, Mikie

    ******************************

    Guaifenesin, an expectorant, may enhance mucosal immunity by increasing mucosal IgA levels. Guaifenesin claim to fame is as an expectorant that loosens and thins mucus. That might suffice to help explain how guaifenesin helps overcome a sinus or respiratory infection as a treatment, but this alone does not adequately explain how quaifenesin can prevent strep and other infections of the sinus and lungs when taken as a preventative. What I have found lacking in the published literature are studies of the effects of guaifenesin on cytokines like IgA, IL-12, antigen presentation, DTH and other immune markers.

    RH Buckley writes that "Selective absence of serum and secretory IgA is probably the most common form of human innumodeficiency. High frequencies of recurrent sinusitis, otitis media, pneumonia and atopy were noted among a group of 75 such patients all but 4 of whom were Caucasian." (1)

    Numerous studies have linked IgA deficiency with sinusitis, bronchitis, allergies, rheumatoid arthritis, sore and swollen joints, anemia, low platelet count, food allergy and asthma. (2, 3)

    Lizeng Q et all found that serum IgA suppressed the replication of HIV-2. Lizeng found 96% of all IgA samples reacted against whole HIV-2 antigen and 100% reacted with gp 36. (4)

    Challacombe and Sweet state: "There is a paradox that profound HIV-induced immunodeficiency is present systemically, whereas the majority of infections associated with HIV disease are present or initiated at mucosal surfacesä. Considerable attention has been given to the possibility of mucosal immunization against HIV and there is evidence that secretory IgA antibody is neutralizing to different HIV strains." (5)


    1. Clinical and immunologic features of selective IgA deficiency, RH Buckley, birth Defects Orig Artic Ser. 1975;11(1):134-42
    2. http://www.primaryimmune.org/pubs/
    3. Immunologic defects in patients with chronic recurrent sinusitis, Sethi DS et al, Otolaryngol Head Neck surg. 1995 Feb;112(2):242-7
    4. IgA mediated immunity in HIV-2 infection, Virology, 2003 apr 10;308(2):225-32
    5. Oral Dis. 2002;8 Suppl 2:55-62

    Medical Hypothesis:
    Guaifenesin, with other factors (Vitamin A, silica, the probiotic B-longum etc) promote mucosal immunity and could inhibit HIV progression
    As guaifenesin reverses many of the conditions associated with chronic IgA deficiency, studies are need to determine if, in fact, guaifenesin actually increases mucosal IgA levels. At this juncture, there does not appear to be any other logical theory as to why guaifenesin would have these protective effects on the mucus membranes other than improving the status of mucosal IgA.

    Vitamin A is also grossly under used in the battle against AIDS, candidiasis and CFIDS. A and D from fish oil in capsules of 10,000 i.u of A and 400 i.u of D should be taken daily. Initially, 2 capsules twice daily for the first month then reduce to 2 capsules daily.
  2. dahopper

    dahopper New Member

    I am on a Guai break at the moment while going through FFC. I was not going to do that but I felt if I am going to pay all this money to go through this clinic should do what they tell me. Alot of the supplements they have me on right now would block the Guai and probably the IV's would also. But soon as I do all the main stuff and can cut back on alot of these things I will go back on the Guai.
    Thank You for posting this inf. I can't wait for my husband to read this. :) Hugs, Love Debbie
  3. Dee50

    Dee50 New Member

    Thanks for posting this. I think the guai is the best thing I'm on. My sinus mucus is clear and I know the guai is helping with this lung thing I'm fighting now.

    Guess it doesn't do much for a sick gb. I'm so glad your scan is helping get your health straightened out. Will you take your guai or stop it for your surgery? I wish you the very best with your gb removal. I'm sorry you have to have surgery but it sounds like the gb is a big problem as it is so sick.
    Take care,
    Dee50
  4. Smiffy

    Smiffy Member

    Thanks Mikie for the information. I love my Guai!

    How are you? When is your op scheduled? hugs & oodles of positive vibes for a quick recovery
  5. Kayleen

    Kayleen New Member

    Thanks for the info. I was taking Guai and ended up with a really bad cold that lasted over a month. During that time I had increased my dosage and was taking Guai with Dextromathorphan. It was after the cold ended that I realized my pain was better. And if I didn't take the Guai DM I felt worse. So I take Musinex DM every day.
    I have achy pain but not horrific pain like I had before the Guai.

    Thanks again for the info. It just reinforces the fact I need to stay on it.
    Kayleen
  6. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Glad y'all found this info interesting too.

    Debbie, I hope everything from the FFC is helping. Did you ever ask them why they don't use the Guai for their FMS patients? Is it because they use other things which would block it?

    Dee, I will likely stop the Guai before the surgery for a few days. The slight blood thinning property of the Guai probably wouldn't even cause a problem, but I don't want to take any changes. I'll know Tues. when I see the doc when the surgery will be.

    Smiffy, thanks for the good wishes. As soon as I see the doc, I'll update everyone on when the surgery will be schedule. I can't wait to get it over with. I've been sick for so long with this and it's been getting worse by the week.

    Kayleen, it isn't safe to take the dextromethorphan on a long-term basis. The guai can be easily purchased without it. It is sold here and OTC as Mucinex. The guai sold here can be bought in both the fast acting and time release forms. Costco sells it dirt cheap but, like with the Mucinex, it contains the deep blue dye. The fast acting form sold here does not.

    Love, Mikie





  7. bigmh

    bigmh New Member

    Thanks for the info, Mikie. I'm just past my 6 month guai anniversary, and things are getting better...whooppee!!!

    So sorry about your gb. I had mine removed when I was 22. None of the symptoms were classic, only nausea all of the time and lots of reflux with certain foods. It took almost a year after the gb came out to get back to normal. I hope this is not the case with you!! Please let us know when your surgery is scheduled. You'll be in my prayers.

    Love, Ann
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Even if it does take a long time to get back to normal, I will be glad to get it done. I think it's been making me sick a long time and it's getting worse. The sooner it's done, the sooner I will get better. I'm sorry it took so long for you.

    Congratulations on your anniversary. I'm so glad the Guai is helping you.

    Love, Mikie
  9. bigmh

    bigmh New Member

    For me, my gb was before fibro, but it was just generally "poisoning" my system. Things just weren't right and I wasn't feeling good. I so hope for success for your surgery!!

    PS I'm going to write a 6-month report here when I feel a bit better. There are so many people suffering, and I want to share the good news! I had 5 days 2 weeks ago of feeling almost normal (with taking pain meds, but forgetting them at times!) plus a trip last weekend. It's true...it works!!!! Thanks SO much to you for nudging me!!
  10. zenouchy

    zenouchy Member

    Mikie,

    What fascinating news. You always find great info to share. Makes me wonder, as I indicated in my title, if our daily Guai dosage makes a difference. As you know, everyone requires different doses under the Protocal to get effective pain relief and phosphate removal. I'm one of those low-dose/fast responder folks and only take 200 mg in the am and 400 mg in the evening of FA Guai. (And yes, I know not many people take FA Guai anymore, but it still does the job for me.)

    At any rate, I just wonder if the daily dosage matters or if it's the overall concept of taking Guai every day for a long term basis that leads to increased immunity. Perhaps I'm nitpicking.

    On a different note, I wanted to wish you well once again on your upcoming GB surgery. You are in my thoughts and prayers!

    Love, Erika
  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Ann, that is exactly how I feel, like I have systemic poisoning. In effect, I guess that's what it is, in addition to the effects it has on gastric activities in the body. Considering that I have run a low-grade temp and had a big abcess in the area, I think my sick gb has been making me sicker and sicker for a long time. BTW, it's not too early to celebrate what the Guai is doing for you. It'll just keep getting better.

    Erika, I'm not sure anyone know the complete answer. I would say that, yes, dose does matter in terms of the speed with which one effects reversal. I kept increasing my own dose until I hit 2400 mgs. a day to speed things up. Every time I increased, I had big-time flares. In terms of whether the Guai helps with immunity, it sounds to me as though this is just a theory which needs further research. There is another theory that just by thinning the mucus, the Guai gets rid of thick mucus areas where pathogens can hide from the immune system. Like I said, I think Dr. St. Amand's theory is right in as far as it goes but I also believe there is more to it.

    Carla, IgA is measured as an indication of a healthy immune system, along with other markers. I honestly am not well read on these markers or the finer aspects of how our immune systems work. I don't know what is used to measure these markers but I have always assumed that blood work will show them. Perhaps these researchers have been concentrating on the mucus and taking measurements there. I wish I had more answers. This was obviously written for medical professionals who are presumed to know these things. Thick mucus in the bowels isn't healthy and I don't think it's healthy for the rest of the body either. It is the first line of defense but the consistency is likely important. If it is too thick, it may not be effective in helping immunity. I'm doing a lot of assuming and guessing here.

    The researchers were obviously interested in HIV immunity but, of course, what helps us resist HIV will provide valuable info for helping us to resist other immune problems.

    I'm not sure I know what you are asking about the gb. I've resorted to using it instead of typing out, gallbladder. Was that your question? I'm sorry but I'm really tired and not sure I'm too swift mentally tonight.

    Love, Mikie
  12. zenouchy

    zenouchy Member

    Mikie,

    Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. 600 mg total each day of Guai seems to be the most that my body can tolerate. Otherwise, my flares are too intense. Therefore, I must be getting a good "immune response effect" as well if that makes any sense.

    I started the Guai Protocal only a month after getting dxed with fibro, so I might not have had as many phosphates built up in my system as others who started the Protocal that have had fibro for a long time. Who knows? We're all so individualized! My point being again that I just can't tolerate a high dose of Guai, even if it means it would better protect my immune system. I'm thinking as long as I take SOME guai each day, I'm probably a leg up. Let's hope so! Thanks so much again for your response and for sharing this info. :)

    Love, Erika
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Thanks, Carla, for clearing that up. I am honestly sooooo exhausted from this sick gb that I'm not able to mentally function at my usual pace. Yes, I'll be glad to get it out and get on with it.

    Erika, the usual dose of Guai for mucus problems is 2400 mgs. a day. For those of us doing the protocol and going sal free, that would be a very high dose, indeed. It took a long time for me to be able to build to that dose because I was sick for so long and wanted to speed up the process. The Guai doesn't affect people without FMS like it does us and also, they are not sal free, so even if they have FMS, the sals are likely blocking the Guai.

    The article doesn't mention dosage but my guess is that they are talking about the usual 2400 mgs. a day. I don't know so am guessing again that any Guai would help with immunity if the theory turns out to be valid. A lot of us with FMS suffer from sinusitis, bronchitis, and even pneumonia. If the Guai helps our mucus to fight off these infections, it might be another reason that we feel better.

    I'm glad this has peaked some interest in the Guai. At this point, I don't think we know for certain all the ways the Guai helps us but it is enough for me that it has reversed my FMS symptoms. I can now get on with treating my CFIDS, that is, as soon as I get this *&#$@*# gb taken out :)

    Love, Mikie
  14. ANNXYZ

    ANNXYZ New Member

    Just a thought . Do you know if the chemical makeup of guai is acid or alkaline ? I have read reports that many FM sufferers notice improvement in pain when adhering to an alkaline based diet . I have often wondered if perhaps the guai was ALSO alkaline and provided relief from acidosis, helping balance the PH of the system.
  15. Smiffy

    Smiffy Member

    To understand the protocol, you need a cop of Dr St Amand's book 'What your doctor may not tell you about fibromyalgia'. Details are on www.fibromyalgiatreatment.com
  16. zenouchy

    zenouchy Member

    Mikie, I don't have chronic sinusitis, bronchitis or pneumonia and didn't know that many FM sufferers did! I read Marek's "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Fibro" a few years ago and must have missed that, perhaps because that's one of the few symptoms I'm not experiencing.

    Oddly or interestingly (take your pick!), I read from Marek's book that ALL of our fibro symptoms would cycle out by taking the Guai. Yet, the only thing that cycled out for me is pain. I usually have little to no pain unless I get a few nite's of really bad sleep (in which case my pain really shoots up).

    Otherwise, my other fibro symptoms are still there.....IBS, IC, unrefreshed sleep, light/odor sensitivity, and hypoglycemia (and yes I follow the HG diet). So I find that puzzling. It would seem odd that Guai would cure some of these symptoms though, like HG. Still....it would have been nice to see some of the other symptoms cycle out too.

    At any rate, I'm glad the Guai has helped you so much with your FM so that you can "concentrate" on your CFIDs. And indeed once you get your #$#!! GB out, hopefully things will return to normal quickly for you and you can focus on continued recovery from CFIDs. Is your surgery scheduled yet? Thanks again for your response!

    Love, Erika
  17. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    This is a great discussion. I'm glad so many are interested.

    Carla, when one takes Heparin to clear up fibrin overgrowth in the blood, all the pathogens hiding there become more vulnerable to the immune system and drugs to kill them. This may be similar. If the mucus is too thick, perhaps it does offer hiding places for pathogens. Thick mucus is often a breeding ground for pathogens which cause sinusitis. Let us know where your research leads. There is a fellow named London who has written his theories about why the Guai may work for reasons other than that theorized by Dr. St. Amand.

    Ann, I just dissolved a Guai tablet and ran a test strip through the liquid. It read about 6.0. I don't know how accurate this is but I thought I'd give it a try.

    Erika, FMS travels with a lot of other syndromes which, I believe, one has to treat separately. I used to have IBS but it went away when I started to take the Doxy for my mycoplasma infections. I don't know whether Dr. St. Amand believes that the Guai is a panacea for all our associated syndromes, but I do not. A large number of us also have chronic infections and I think they have to be addressed separately. When I talk about being reversed, for me, that means I no longer have the pain and my fatigue is better. I also have CFIDS, so until I get that treated, I don't expect that I will feel well. Progress treating the CFIDS and accompanying infections has been agonizingly slow. There are a few people who seem to feel well once their pain and fatigue are reversed. For others, I think more treatment than just the Guai is needed.

    My conclusions regarding the sinusitis, bronchitis, and pneumonia was unscientifically drawn by me because I've read about it so much here over the last six years. Many of us have costo chondritis and it is often caused by the inflammation in the bronchia.

    There is so much we don't know about our illnesses and their treatments. Some of our members are excellent at researching and putting together info which can be very helpful to us. It's often discussions like this which yield help for us.

    Love, Mikie
  18. zenouchy

    zenouchy Member

    Mikie,

    You are helping me out a lot here. Can't thank you enough. Marek's book was perhaps misleading in that she stated that many if not all of our fibro symptoms would cycle out when taking Guai.

    For quite awhile, I was part of an online Guai discussion group, and many members would talk about how their IBS, depression and several other fibro symptoms BESIDES PAIN were being cycled out from TAKING GUAI. To me that was just so odd, as it never happened to me. Of course we are so individualized.

    I struggle with intermittent IBS, but when it hits, it's severe and prolonged and will keep me from going out of the house for days, such as right now. It's quite frustrating. The usual presription meds that GI docs have given me (Bentyl, Levsin, etc) just don't make me functional enough to get out of the house, and acidophilus is nice but again, not nearly enough.

    **I would love to know what Doxy is and how it's cured your IBS** THANK YOU SO MUCH!

    Love, Erika
  19. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I think a lot depends on how long one has been sick and how many accompanying conditions one has. Doxy is short for the antibiotic, Doxycycline. That it cured my IBS has led me to believe that some IBS, like some ulcers, may be caused by harmful bacteria in the gut.

    It is possible that if one can get the Guai to reverse the FMS symptoms before these other conditions get a foothold in the body that the Guai might make it possible to reverse those as well. We are all so different that the Guai will likely do more for one person than another. In my case, with the CFIDS, the Guai, by itself, cannot get rid of everything. Still, I am grateful that the Guai helped my fatigue so much and got rid of almost all the pain.

    Our bodies are designed to heal themselves and for some, the Guai may make that possible. For others, the body may have taken too much abuse from the FMS for the Guai to heal everything. If one has chronic systemic infections, like Lyme and mycoplasmas, it is next to impossible for someone who has been infected for a long time to heal without the use of long-term antibiotic therapy.

    I'm sorry the Guai fell short in your case and I hope you can get these problems under control.

    Love, Mikie
  20. darude

    darude New Member

    Thanks Mikie. Please see video of lady with ME/cfs Perhaps you could help. See my post on this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGsHr3x9pVE