gut dysbiosis malabsorption and depression explained

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Catseye, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Try to figure out if your depression is caused by deficiencies in things like amino acids and neurotransmitter precursors due to malabsorption problems from gut dysbiosis before you run off to the nearest shrink to be prescribed pills that have severe side effects instead of what you really need. I found this example of how the state of your guts can cause depression. I think it is very nicely explained.

    At the very basic level, our body is all about chemistry. Digestion, respiration, central and peripheral nervous system and the endocrine system all function based on chemistry. In order to function properly, the body requires a huge variety of molecules and trace elements. With the exception of Oxygen, all other chemicals are provided by the food that we eat. Our digestive system is responsible for converting that food into forms the body can utilize, while ridding the body of metabolic waste products and harmful toxins.

    The digestive system is based on a series of chemical compounds and enzymes (proteins) that break down the chemical bonds in food so that the more basic building blocks of carbohydrates, fats, amino acids, vitamins and minerals can be absorbed and utilized by our metabolism to provide energy, build new proteins, repair cells etc. Certain vitamins and trace elements present in food cannot be absorbed directly and need to be converted into other forms before they can pass through the intestinal walls. This conversion is most commonly carried out by bacteria in the gut. The various bacterias' own metabolism acts on the vitamins and minerals, appending organic molecules which changes the solubility of the compounds and allows them to pass through the intestine and into the blood stream. These symbiotic bacteria have a further function of protecting the intestine from pathogenic bacteria and yeast

    When a pathological state exists, this finely balanced symbiosis may be damaged and cease to function normally. Several different states in the gut may exist. Symbiotic bacteria may be damaged, causing the malabsorption of critical vitamins and minerals.

    If the damage is extensive and/or long lasting, pathogenic yeast and gram negative bacilli will begin to fill the vacuum left by the healthy bacteria. The metabolism of these pathogens is different and foods are no longer broken down in the same way. Proteins that previously would be broken down to their constituent amino acids are only partially digested, leaving long chains of amino acids called peptides. Our entire body is built from proteins, which are themselves built from chains of peptides. Certain peptides are extremely bioactive i.e they interact strongly with other proteins in the body.

    Another side effects of dysbiosis (incorrect gut microorganisms) is that the gut becomes leaky i.e it passes larger molecules than would normally be the case. Thus peptides, which should normally be broken down to amino acids, leave the gut and enter the blood stream intact, where they are delivered to other organs. Casein and Gluten, a protein and mixture of proteins common in many foods break down to form very potent opio-peptides when acted on by certain pathogenic bacteria. As the name suggests, these peptides have a narcotic action and act on opiate receptors in the brain, triggering major changes in brain function.

    These are only 2 examples and very little work has been done on identifying the structure and function of peptides created by dysbiosis.

    The above example is a nice illustration of how the presence of gut dysbiosis can directly effect brain function. Given that depression has its roots in biochemistry, its not too wildly imaginative to suppose that your problems are indeed related to gut dysbiosis.

    Detoxification is hugely impacted by dysbiosis.

    Detoxification is, to a large extent carried out by the Liver. Toxic compounds are first oxidized or hydroxylated (Stage I), while Stage II reactions prepare the Stage I metabolites for biliary excretion by covalently conjugating them with highly polar ligands like glucuronic acid or glutathione. These detoxification reactions require vitamin and trace elemental co-factors to provide electrons for chemical bonding. In cases of Dysbiosis, these co-factors may be missing, due to malabsorbtion in the intestine. In addition, the pathogenic bacteria in the gut may metabolize the conjugated toxins, changing their form and allowing them to be reabsorbed into the blood stream.

    Mercury is usually excreted via the gut in its divalent elemental form. In Dysbiosis it is thought that certain pathogenic bacteria have the ability to methylate the metallic Mercury to its organic form, which would be reabsorbed into the blood stream and carried to target organs like the kidneys and brain.
  2. Dlebbole

    Dlebbole New Member

    Many times over my 20+ years of dealing with this disease I have had the experience of depression as a herx symptom. So I definitely agree that changing the numbers/species of gut bacterial contents can play a big role. Diane
  3. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    It's all the same. The gut dysbiosis is what causes our symptoms - we can't absorb and assimilate nutrients. So we are deprived of nutrition and after a while, the body can't go without them because it has used up all its reserves and metabolic systems start to break down. None of the body's organs or glands can function properly because they are slowly being starved. Then, if you keep on like this, depriving the body of what it needs, damage will set in and then you get even worse symptoms.

    CFS is a product of gut dysbiosis, infection (that may be the cause or effect of the gut dysbiosis) and hpa axis malfunction. The immune system and adrenals get overworked, as well as the liver, and when you're at this point, just a diet overhaul won't do it. You are overloaded with toxins, bad bacteria and probably metals, which may have to be chelated out. You have to start fixing the different metabolic systems with specific supplements, starting with the guts. It's do-able, it's just a royal pain. See my thread about "comprehensive stool analysis" for more details.

    good luck

  4. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    This is really good. Thanks.
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

    i have had improvements in cfs symptoms and diarrhoea with treating gut type conditions. Probiotics initially really helped but stopped working. Then i have done a course of nystatin followed by nizoral(and probiotics) and had a big improvement, also used candida herbs following this. Just recently talking to my cfs dr and telling him the above he gave me another script for nystatin and yes feeling better after 4 days, so i think there is something in treating gut/candida/yeast conditions, so i am going to continue nystatin. The other improvement i had (2-3 years ago)was with antibiotics(doxy)but didnt follow this with probiotics or nystatin, so im going to suggest this and see what he says.
  6. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Karen,

    Thanks for another great informative post. Thought I'd pass along the following I ran across recently that I had never heard before; was wondering if perhaps you had.

    [Sodium is healthy?
    Chronic indigestion, intestinal irritation, constipation, ulcers and other stomach disorders as well as joint troubles such as arthritis, rheumatism and osteoporosis are often signs that bio-organic sodium is deficient in the body. Reserve supplies of sodium are stored in joints, ligaments, and lymph fluid, but chiefly in the walls of the stomach and small bowel. This makes the tissues of the stomach highly alkaline, which is needed to withstand the hydrochloric acid normally produced in the stomach. If it were not for the presence of sodium, the stomach walls would be destroyed by the acid in these tissues.

    Acids are produced in the body through devitalized foods, stress, mental strain, etc. When this occurs, sodium is withdrawn from the above mentioned sights to neutralize the acid. If we overdraw from the sodium reserve in the stomach, it will be withdrawn from the joints and ligaments and they will suffer. This is because the blood, in attempt to maintain chemical balance, will borrow sodium, but calcium will remain in the joints causing pain and rigidness that is so evidently common today.

    Remember, bio-organic sodium is food sodium, not to be confused with table salt sodium, NaCl, which is processed at extreme heat using many chemical procedures, including bleaching, to get the finished product. The stomach, intestines, joints, and ligaments are sodium organs and are in constant need of food sodium.]

    *** For many years I've eating a lot of high quality salt in my diet, and recently I've been upping my intake just before going to sleep, often noticing I sleep better as a result. Despite my high sodium intake, I had a hair analysis test done a few years back which showed virtually no sodium in my body (don't know how accurate hair analysis tests are). Would be interested in any thoughts you may have on the role/importance of sodium in gut dysbiosis.

    Thanks much.

    Regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 06/27/2008]
  7. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Oh yes, salt is one of the things I'm big on, though I don't seem to mention it much. I have celtic sea salt bags all over the house. I put it on all my food and I even used to drink lots of it in water when I was treating my adrenals. They need salt, too, and I was giving the adrenals what they needed early in the morning. I still am, actually, but I don't drink the salt water anymore. I always wake up around 4-5 and that's when I take my first pills of the day: coq10, minerals, vit C, aminos, adrenal glandular, adrenal cortex extract, bioactive B vitamins and pantethine.

    I take more things when I wake up, then I dump salt all over my breakfast. I won't use sodium chloride, though, because I've read all kinds of bad about it. But your body does need salt, especially the adrenals which we probably all have a problem with.

    That's interesting that you showed low in sodium after testing, I'm doing a minerals/metals test this weekend. At least as soon as I think I can go without my minerals for 3 days. That's what I'm supposed to go without and that's not something I'm looking forward to. I'm actually scared to try to go without my major supplements for 3 days. I'll probably feel like hell. But the doc has been stressing the importance of this test so I'll have to get to it soon.

    I'll also read about the importance of salt in killing pathogens. So I think it's pretty important overall. This healthy salt even tastes different than the sodium chloride. I could tell when my adrenals were burnt that I really needed it because when I drank like 1/2 tsp in a glass of water, my whole body just went "Ahhhh".

    take care

  8. bunnyfluff

    bunnyfluff Member

    So, did I read another post right that you finally got confirmation on Lyme as well???

    At my LLMD today, he touted sea salt, and said that actually it had all of the minerals in it that the body needs.

    I generally drink just filtered water all day, and he said this was actually bad, b/c it washes out all of the minerals we should have, and dilutes things too much.

    He gave me some stuff to add to the salted water that makes it taste more like a was awesome!

    But, even tho I take a really good liquid vitamin, he said that this stuff w/ the sea salt would improve things a lot.


  9. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    I do eat tons of celtic sea salt. What's the powder? I could use a margarita, even a faux one!

    And yes, I'm officially a lymie now! I'm glad I found out, now I have another thing to focus on and get rid of that has been an obstacle to me regaining my health. Lyme messes up the gut pretty bad, it's all tied in. Glad I found the right path!