Has anyone herxed on NAC W/Glutathione?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by Hippen, May 16, 2004.

  1. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I have been taking GNC brand NAC 600 mgs with 100 mgs of glutathione and I am herxing from it. Maybe this is a sign that it is cleaning something out. I even have the herx headache. Has anyone else had this reaction from NAC or increasing glutathione levels?

    Thinking my adrenals may be dead and the NAC and glutathione are reviving them? Thanks...Love, Hippen
  2. tandy

    tandy New Member


    As i'd like to know myself~ I have NAC coming thru the mail and plan to start soon. Just wanna know what to expect. I had'nt even considered herxing from NAC.
    Is that possible??? anyone? Plantscaper,Tansy or Pat would most likely have an answer for us.

    Regards,
    Tandy
  3. rockyjs

    rockyjs Member

    Hippen,

    There are a few things I have noticed with NAC or any cysteine product. First of all they contain sulfur and you may get some really bad gas - the kind that you blame on the dog.

    Also cysteine chelates copper out of your body which is a good thing for many people, but if you don't have enough you'll get a candida "bloom" because copper inhibits the growth.

    If you get signs of candida overgrowing I'd suggest taking a 2mg capsule or tablet of chelated copper a day.

    NAC is an anti-viral and the contains one of the foundation amino acids for glutathione. That will help detoxify your liver and may give you a headache. I don't recall glutathione having too much influence on adrenals.

    Jan
  4. tansy

    tansy New Member

    and have had no herxing from them that I am aware of. I have taken MSM, whihc sadly made little difference, and eat/take garlic so I guess my body is used to the suplhur. We are thought to be very low on glutothione, these supps help raise our levels so our bodies can cope better with toxins, mercury, etc.

    If you are eating a really healthy diet that assists the detoxing, and drink lots of water, you can make these supps even more effective.

    It can take 3 months on NAC before the full benefits are achieved so try to give it that long.

    Sujay regularly suggests these supps.

    love
    Tansy

    [This Message was Edited on 05/17/2004]
  5. tansy

    tansy New Member

    NAC (N-acetylcysteine)

    What Is It?
    Health Benefits
    Forms
    Dosage Information
    Guidelines for Use
    General Interaction
    Possible Side Effects
    Cautions

    What Is It?
    Produced by the body, N-acetylcysteine (commonly called NAC) is a form of the amino acid cysteine. Because it enhances the production of the enzyme glutathione, one of the body's powerhouse antioxidants, NAC can both stave off disease and play an important role in boosting the immune system. Studies have shown that glutathione levels are often reduced in people with certain conditions related to the immune system.

    For more than three decades, NAC has been used as a mucolytic ("mucus dissolving") agent to help break up the thick mucus often present in people suffering from chronic respiratory ailments. When administered intravenously, NAC has also proved invaluable in the treatment of acetaminophen overdose; it appears to protect the liver from this potentially toxic substance. Now widely available in supplement form, NAC is currently being recommended for preventing and treating a wide variety of ailments that may respond to its antioxidant properties.

    Health Benefits
    Supplemental antioxidants—NAC is one of many— are believed to protect the body's cells from altered oxygen molecules called free radicals. Damage from free radicals is thought to be a signficant factor in such degenerative conditions as cancer and heart disease. Of course, factors other than oxidative damage, such as life style factors and genetic susceptibility, play strong roles in disease development as well. The hope is that by reducing susceptibility to free radical damage, a person may further lower susceptibility to a variety of chronic medical conditions. Incidentally, it is by means of its antioxidant actions that NAC helps the liver eliminate potentially dangerous environmental and biological toxins from the body.

    Specifically, NAC may help to:

    Reduce congestion related to sinusitis, bronchitis, asthma, and other respiratory diseases. Conventional physicians routinely use NAC to dilute thick mucus, making it much easier to cough up or drain from the nasal passages and other congested areas. It's often used to ease congestion in people with pneumonia and other chronic respiratory diseases. It has even been shown to reduce mucus secretions in people who smoke or who are regularly exposed to secondhand smoke.

    Treat HIV-infected individuals. Some studies have shown that NAC interferes with the replication of certain viruses, including the HIV (human immunodeficiency virus) responsible for causing AIDS. Just what this means for HIV-infected individuals remains unclear, however. One study did show that HIV-positive patients taking NAC supplements were twice as likely to survive for two years than those not taking NAC. Because NAC can boost glutathione production, it supports the proper functioning of immune-system components such as T cells, B cells, and phagocytes, all of which are important for maintaining the body's defenses and potentially protecting against AIDs-related illnesses such as pneumonia.

    Lessen flu symptoms. By thinning mucus and weakening the flu virus, supplemental NAC could potentially lessen the severity and duration of the flu.

    Prevent heart disease. In some studies, NAC appears to significantly lower levels of homocysteineand possibly lipoprotein(a), substances associated with an increased risk of heart disease. As an antioxidant, it also helps prevent the damaging oxidation—and thereby the precipitation—of LDL ("bad") cholesterol from the material that lines blood vessels. More research in this area is needed, however.

    Delay age-related cataracts and macular degeneration. Both of these conditions have been associated with damage from oxygen free radicals. By boosting antioxidant activity in the eye's lens and macula, NAC may have a role to play in preventing cataracts (which cause the lens to become cloudy) and macular degeneration (which can result in blindness as this area of the retina deteriorates).

    Counter environmental toxins. NAC-supported glutathione interacts with the dangerous byproducts of many toxic substances, promoting their excretion through the liver. These substances include carbon tetrachloride, chloroform, and carbon monoxide; alcohol; such heavy metals as mercury, chromium, and boron; and the microorganisms aflatoxin and Eschicheria coli.

    Lessen the risk of cancer. By helping to rid the body of environmental toxins and by fighting free radicals, NAC, at least theoretically, may have a role to play in preventing cancer. NAC might also slow the growth of cancerous tissues in these ways. Clinical trials are underway to explore this possibility. Interestingly, one study did find that NAC reduced nausea and vomiting caused by chemotherapy.

    Slow the progression of multiple sclerosis. One theory regarding the cause of this degenerative condition attributes it to free-radical damage caused by low levels of glutathione. If this is true, NAC's antioxidant actions may be of help in protecting nerve cells from such damage. More research on NAC's effect on this disease is clearly needed.

    Affect the course of Parkinson's disease. Parkinson's disease is often marked by reduced quantities of glutathione in the brain. In theory, boosting glutathione with NAC supplements could slow loss of function in Parkinson's sufferers. NAC's antioxidant actions might also help by minimizing age-related deterioration of the nervous system.

    Note: Antioxidants in general and NAC in particular have been considered useful for a number of other disorders. For information on these additional ailments, see our Dosage Recommendations Chart for NAC.

    Forms
    tablet
    Dosage Information
    Special tips:
    Regular supplementation with NAC will increase the urinary excretion of copper, a mineral. So if you're using NAC for an extended period of time, it's probably wise to add both copper (2 mg a day) and zinc (30 mg a day) to your treatment regimen.
    If you use NAC for more than a month, add a mixed amino acid complex to your treatment regimen to ensure that you are getting adequate, balanced amounts of all the amino acids.
    NAC is also available as an intravenous solution and inhalant, but by prescription only. Follow doctor recommendations regarding dosage and administration of these forms.
    For the majority of ailments mentioned: Take 500 mg three times a day.

    For bronchitis: For acute bronchitis, take 500 mg three times a day between meals. For chronic bronchitis, take 250 mg three times a day between meals.

    For sinusitis: Take 500 mg twice a day between meals.

    For multiple sclerosis: Take 500 mg three times a day every other day between meals; alternate with 30 mg zinc and 2 mg copper.

    Be sure to check out our Dosage Recommendations Chart for NAC, which lists therapeutic dosages for specific ailments at a glance.

    Guidelines for Use
    NAC is most effective when taken on an empty stomach.

    If you've added a mixed amino acid complex to your NAC regimen, be sure to take it on an empty stomach as well, but at a different time of day than you take the NAC.

    General Interactions
    There are no known drug or nutrient interactions associated with NAC.

    Possible Side Effects
    NAC has no side effects as long as it is taken in the recommended dosage.

    High doses of oral NAC may cause gastrointestinal problems, such as vomiting, or in rare cases a rash possibly accompanied by fever.

    Cautions
    Scientists must still determine how much NAC and glutathione can be safely absorbed and processed by the body.

    Evidence indicates that in some healthy individuals, high doses of NAC (2,800 mg a day) can act as a pro-oxidant rather than an antioxidant, actually lowering levels of glutathione rather than increasing them. For this reason, otherwise healthy individuals may want to avoid taking high doses of NAC until more information is available.

    Because there are no adequate studies of NAC in pregnant women, it's not recommended for women who are or may be pregnant.
  6. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I appreciate all the responses on this matter. I certainly feel something going on in my body since i started taking NAC....I hope it ends up being helpful. Mt herx headache is starting to go away...I think...LOL

    If anyone else has anything to offer to this post..please do so. Thanks again.....Love ,Hippen
  7. ANNXYZ

    ANNXYZ New Member

    I strongly suspect the NAC is raising your glutathione level . Glut. is your immune system's FIRE POWER . When your immune system activates or fires up , it causes a reaction ( fluish and extra fatigue ) that feels similar to a herx .

    You are probably on the right track , but it will feel somewhat worse until you lower the level pathogens present . I think this part of healing is necessary and
    inevitable . Good news: it has DEFINITELY yielded good results for others who persevered . HANG ON!
  8. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    Thanks for your post.....you are probably right. I have been feeling like I have the flu since starting the NAC.
    You have made me want to try and hang on.....thanks!!!
    Every little bit of encouragement helps. I do feel like my immune system is starting to repair itself...it has been a long road and I am sure we could all use some healing. Good luck to you also!!!! Love, Hippen
  9. ANNXYZ

    ANNXYZ New Member

    dosage of NAC . I take 600 mg 3 times daily ( =1800).
    You may want to try a higher dose to achieve better results . Alpha lipoic acid also helps raise glutathione level , as well as L glutamine .

    I found an inexpensive and helpful book on this by Allen Pressman called "Glutathione " ( I think that is correct title - from Barnes & Noble). I think you would like it.

    More info : I think drtomcat posted about Patricia Kane
    and glutathione research that is being lauded by med community . Do a search on ( google) : "Patricia Kane glutathione " or "detoxx box".


  10. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I appreciate all the info you have given to me. I have now increased my NAC to 1200 mgs...two capsules. I will try the 1800 mgs once I get used to the 1200 mgs...*smile*

    The headache is now gone...thank goodness. I am really , really sleepy though...OMG !!! Can't seem to stay awake since I have been taking this stuff. I will not give in though. I am so excited that my IBS was cured by Primal Defense probiotics that I am surely not afraid to give this a try for helping my CFS!!! Over the 8 years of having this sickness, I have made some improvement from trying the "small" things to get well. Hopefully, all the small things will add up to one big cure!!!!! Thanks again

    Love, Hippen
  11. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I appreciate all the info you have given me also. I am going to continue the NAC and see what happens. I do need to increase my water intake like you said. Thanks for the advice....take care.......Love, Hippen
  12. tandy

    tandy New Member


    I also ordered the NAC.....I should be getting it soon.
    But I just saw your post on the primal defense~
    Your saying its helped your IBS alot!!? I take the jarro probiotic(I know its suppose to be good) but I'm a little better(bowel wise) but not alot. I'm considering trying the primal defense. I already know its higher in price,but don't care if its gonna help alot!!!
    Just wondered how that stuff is dosed?? Is'nt it a powder form?? Can you just tell me how much and what form you took??? and did you stay at the same dose all the while or increase in time? I aprecaite your help!!
    Thanks!
    Hugs,
    Tandy
  13. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I started the Primal Defense with two caplets a day..usually trying to take them on an empty stomach. They come in caplet form and they are "big" and smelly....LOL.

    I continue to take two a day but have gone several days without taking them and the IBS did not come back!!! They are expensive but well worth it. I pay 39.99 for 90 caplets
    at my local vitamin store.

    Do be aware that for the first few days of taking Primal Defense.....you may experience some major gas and increased trips to the bathroom. This was nothing major compared to what the IBS has put me through for 19 long years...ugh!!! This is just a sign that it is getting your bowels in check and straightening things out for you.....*smile*.

    I am glad that you are also trying the NAC. My GNC brand that I am taking also has 100 mgs of glutathione right in the pill along with the NAC. I don't know if this is a plus...but I would think it is? The NAC is working hard on fighting something...cause I have been in a herx mode since I have started taking it. Nothing I can't handle though.

    Let me know how you do on the NAC...please...I will be interested in knowing your experiences on it. I am also hoping that you will give Primal Defense a try!!!! Please know that I had a severe case of IBS...and it is gone now!!
    It was gone after only a week and a half after starting Primal Defense. I hope you have the same experience.

    Keep me up to date on your progress...stay strong!!!!

    Love, Hippen
  14. Wolverine

    Wolverine Member

    Hi hippen, ive been on NAC for a while now. I had the great smokies liver detox profile, and my glutathionation (glutathione production and function) was less than 10% which is VERY low! i am super sensitive to drugs and everything else, which this explains alot of. I was started on NAC and i too am SO EXHASUTED on it! i feel like its definetly doing 'something' in my body - but during the day i feel so heavy and tired in the body, and like its sort of harder to breathe - have to lay down i just get so exhausted on it. i take a full day of not taking it at all to get rid of that feeling. Therefore, i have only been taking it on and off - if my girl wants to do something the next day, i dont take it, or if i want to go somewhere i dont take it for a few days cause i cant do much when im on it! its a pain and im not sure if it would get better if i just stay on it constantly.. hopefully and it would make sense that i do.. just dont want to do NOTHING u know? :/ hmm what to do??

    Chris.
  15. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    Your post sounded exactly how I feel.....so it must be the NAC. I too had to stop taking it for a day because I needed a break...I can't stay awake...yikes !!!!! I too have noticed trouble breathing also.....NAC is a mucous thinner so I am thinking it is clearing out our lungs?????

    I am at the point now that i am going to keep taking it every day...like you said....to see if maybe the symptoms start to lessen a little. Maybe our bodies just need to adjust to it?

    Thanks for your post......I appreciate your sharing information with me. It certainly helps to know that we are not alone going through this....*smile*.

    Take care, Love, Hippen
  16. ANNXYZ

    ANNXYZ New Member

    is "Gut Reactions" by Raphael Kellman , MD . He recommends probiotics and L GLUTAMINE . Glutamine thickens the lining of the stomach membranes ( to avoid leaky gut) and strengthens muscles . It also is used by the liver to Make GLUTATHIONE ! It has been called an
    essential supplement .
  17. pastel

    pastel New Member

    What you're both saying about feelings of laboured or difficult breathing worries me a little bit. (ask me
    I'm not a doctor lol!). However it does sound somewhat
    counterproductive to be so laid low with this.

    My dr. has me on a reduced level of anti-viral drug than others because of the above reasoning; he says slow and
    steady in my case is the wisest course. Otherwise the system is overwhelmed and healing is delayed.

    Can you possibly take smaller doses, perhaps every other day
    or so for a few days or weeks to see whether or not your body handles the NAC better. In other words getting some
    of the benefits without so much downside??

    Love,
    Catherine
  18. Steve_Catelin

    Steve_Catelin New Member

    I'd like to hear how Hippen and Wolverine have got on with the NAC.
  19. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I seem to be adjusting to the NAC....I am taking 1200 mgs a day. After a week of feeling pretty crappy, tired and more sore than usual, I am finally starting to feel better.

    I now know that the NAC is helping my body fight off some nasty things. My breathing has improved and I seem to be going to the bathroom all the time. The bad stuff has to come out somehow I guess...*smile*.

    I will continue on the NAC and see what happens...LOL...it has not killed me yet!!! Love, Hippen
  20. tandy

    tandy New Member

    increase in your symptoms or worsening(some do...some don't herx) Usually just lasts a few days. Sorta like having the flu and feeling run down. But after the herx subsides you start feeling the benifits~(of whatever you are on.)
    Hope this helps!!! I know...,there is alot to learn!!
    I agree!! when I first came and read posts....,I was dumbfounded by quite a few!! But we learn as we go~
    Your doing fine!! at least you ask questions!! I would just try to figure it out on my own!!! (real dumb!)
    Hugs,
    Tandy :)