Have You Used Nutritional IV's?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Slayadragon, May 26, 2008.

  1. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Recently I started using vitamin C IV's, and have found them to be extremely helpful in terms of my recovery from mold poisoning.

    (Meaning, I go up to 100% functioning for a few days after each one. Then I drop back to being catatonic again. My doctor says that eventually the effect should last for longer, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.)

    Have other people here had nutritional IV's? I'm not talking about glutathione, but vitamins in general. Preferably just Vitamin C, but general ones (like Meyers Cocktail) too.

    It would be interesting to see if others have had experiences similar to mine.

  2. mezombie

    mezombie Member

    Hi, Slayadragon,

    I received a modified version of a Myers Cocktail as soon as it became clear that I didn't have Lupus or any other well-known illness.

    The doctor who prescribed and administered them (unfortunately no longer practicing) gave them frequently to his CFS patients. Many had very good experiences with them. Unfortunately, they didn't do anything for me.

    But I know a number of people who benefit from these kinds of IVs, and get them on a regular basis. You may find that doing a title and content search for "Myers Cocktail" will bring up some useful information.

    Good luck.

  3. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Hi Mezombie,

    Thanks for the info.

    I think that Myer's Cocktail often uses a small amount of Vitamin C and thus doesn't do the same thing as these. I had one years and years ago, and it didn't seem to do anything for me either.

    Of course, this was before I started to address mold or other toxins, and so nothing worked particularly well. The Vitamin C likely wouldn't have either.

    This disease (whatever it is) is really complicated. No wonder no one's figured it out yet.

    Best, Lisa
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member

    I wanted to warn you about these. I didn't try it but a good friend of mine who was seeing the same doctor I did had problems with her veins after a few of these. Some of us have weak veins ...

    The doctor decided to put in a pic line and a small piece of this broke off and caused her to have a mild stroke. Her face was distorted for a long time and she had trouble speaking ...

    I would think if you feel better from this, why not try a liquid form of vitamins. Obviously this means your not absorbing your nutrients so if you haven't already, I'd look into healing your digestive tract.

    Sorry to harp on this, but malabsorption is the number one symptom of celiac disease.

    Take care ... Marcia
  5. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    That's a scary story! I've heard before that vein punctures in general are far more dangerous than people would have us believe.

    I've always hated getting blood drawn, and after a bad experience with an IV (I'd only had 2 in the dozen years I'd been sick) gave up on them entirely.

    My doctor was quite insistent that I try this one for the mold poisoning though. He's never insisted on anything else quite so strongly, and so I decided to give it one more try.

    I take at least 30 grams (yes, grams) of Vitamin C without diarrhea and without my urine turning yellow, and so I think I must need this. There also seems to be something categorically different about Vitamin C in oral vs. IV form, though I've yet to figure out what it is.

    My current doctor is a whiz with the needle, and so I've been feeling fine about the recent sticks. Your story is really important to think about any time we get our veins punctured, I think.

    Thanks for sharing!
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member

    It's funny, but I think I was more upset when this happened to my friend than she was. You know how that is though, she was just tyring to deal with it ...

    I'm not sure how she's doing now. Her personality changed after this so we lost touch. She was funny and easy going and this made her mean and argumentative. And I was too sick to deal with someone being mean all the time.

    I was warning you because it was the repeated IVs that got her. She was fine in the beginning. Then her veins began to "blow" and she'd spurt blood everywhere. I'd have stopped after that myself ... but she just had them try a new vein somewhere else. EW !!! And when that failed they put in the Pic line ...

    I'd guess our veins weren't really meant to have those chemicals so after awhile they just give out. I remember Dr. Bell's patients had to stop their saline IV's for the same reason though.

    Wow, That's a lot of C you're taking. I'm glad the IV's are making you feel better ... you know it just hit me, don't all IVs have saline in them too and could it be the saline your reacting to ??

    I remember you saying that you were going to try dietary changes, specifically gluten free. I try hard not to bring it up unless I think someone is interested ... But, did you and did you notice a difference ?

    Hopefully someone who's tried this will come along and give you more feedback ...


    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  7. jenbooks13

    jenbooks13 New Member

    If someone's veins blew out like that, the IV tech was likely bad.

    The IV tech in my doc's office is leaving to go to nursing school and we are all upset. While he was on vacation last spring the other nurse could barely even get my big juicy vein on the inner elbow, blood spurted all over, and I just had to leave without the IV. The doctor tried doing my hand veins and he blew out a vein which had never happened to me before. Meanwhile this IV tech can get the same veins in my forearm week in week out with no trouble and no complications.

    A picc line is NOT a venipuncture and I don't know who installed the picc but problems can result from them, and they can result in infection as well because they stay in for so long.

    Thirty grams is a LOT of vitamin C. If your kidneys can handle it, and it helps, that's great. Robert Cathcart wrote about why/how high doses worked. I believe it does denature toxins. You're smart and can read about why it works.

    I get the equivalent of a Meyer's cocktail push, so small amounts of vitamins and minerals, but VERY VERY HELPFUL along with IV glutathione after.

    By the way, I read about a method to kill mold spores but I don't know if it kills toxins as I recall you said toxins require 600 degrees. They basically bake your home. Google "thermapure"

    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  8. restauranthell

    restauranthell New Member

    I have found them to be the most helpful thing I have done to help with CFS and immunity issues. We all different, but I would think it would be worth trying. It has been very very important to me.
  9. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member


    That’s awful about the blood squirting everywhere! I’d stop after that, for sure.

    The good thing is that the doctor who’s doing the IV’s here in Chicago is a real whiz with the needle, at least on me. I’ve never had anyone who’s made it look so easy.

    Going anywhere new does make me nervous. The one thing I won’t let them do is move the needle once it’s inserted. It just makes me really sick, and it never works anyway. If they can’t hit one vein, they can try one more. So far it’s worked.

    Why would the saline make me feel better?

    I’ve been avoiding all grains except for rice since starting on this mold avoidance thing. For one thing, they almost all tend to be really contaminated with aflatoxin (a mold poison), and I don’t need more of this stuff either inhaled or ingested.

    Corn tends to be the most likely to have major contamination, and indeed I learned years ago that corn makes me quite sick. (I never could figure out why it didn’t show on allergy tests. Now I do know!) Rye is almost always contaminated too. Wheat and oats are sometimes contaminated, sometimes not. Peanuts, cashews and a few other nuts have major contamination (and I’ve avoided those for years too). Rice occasionally has a little contamination too, but not usually.

    Dr. Shoemaker talks about gluten/gliadin sensitivity often occurring as a result of mold poisoning, and that’s another reason to put those foods aside for the time being.

    I haven’t taken it to the point of not eating things made in factories where wheat is present or not eating out though. Some would say that if I would make a bigger effort to avoid every speck of gluten, I might be doing better. Perhaps.

    But it’s hard enough trying to avoid the mold, which I know for SURE makes me feel bad. I now wear a blood pressure cuff on a regular basis, since it’s a great indicator of when I’m getting a hit. If I’m in a place with no toxic mold (like outside next to the swimming pool), I’ll have a bp of about 100/60, pulse 70. If I go into somewhere with a good deal of mold, it will shoot up to as much as 140/85, pulse 120. That’s a big jump! (Most places indoors push me to more like 110/70, pulse 85. If I can find an indoor location where my blood pressure and pulse stay low, I’m really happy.)

    How much improvement did you get from the gluten avoidance? I’ve heard of some people whose lives have been turned around solely from making that dietary change, but I’m not sure that they’re defined as having CFS. (Whatever CFS is, of course.)


    What were the hydrogen peroxide IV’s supposed to do for you? Dr. G brought them up at one point, but this was at some point last fall before I moved out of my house. Everything from that time seems like a dream that I can barely remember.

    That’s why I don’t want to get Myers’ Cocktails. Vitamin C is great. I don’t need my veins blowing out because of added stuff. It’s strange how popular those Myers’ Cocktails are though. I’ve run into places that won’t give anything else.

    The IV’s I’ve been having are 25cc. (I wonder how that translates to your numbers.) Interesting that you got nauseous on them. The only time I had an adverse effect was when the local doctor I’m using decided to be creative and use the equivalent of 50 cc. That gave me a huge die-off (similar to doxy but not as bad) and no decreased mold symptoms at all. Dr. G says I’m like his “Three Bears” patient: if you don’t get the dosage right, I’m a goner.

    Someone else here said that her doctor used Vitamin C IV’s (50-100 cc) to kill pathogens. She said she did them for something like two years and felt sicker all the time, never getting better. Sounds like my Famvir experience. I’m leaving the bugs alone for the moment. It’s my new belief that none of the pathogens that CFS patients get (except the lyme co-infections) are nearly as damaging as this mold poison. Or at least, as having a lot of this mold poison. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

    I actually went out and bought coffee enema supplies after reading your comment. If nothing else, it was a good excuse to buy a press pot. I’ve not done any since moving out of the house, and so it will be interesting to see if they help. (Organic coffee is a must though! That’s the mistake that almost everyone, including me, makes at first.)

    Colon-wise....ah, well, my colon is a mess. All those toxins going through it are not a good thing. The massive doses of probiotics and vitamin C are supposed to help that. (And it is true that my yeast problem has not re-emerged. Dr G’s probiotics really are quite extraordinary.) I think I need to do a course of anti-parasite herbs, for regular intestinal parasites. (Just the ordinary stuff....wormwood, black walnut hulls, clove, grapefruit seed extract, etc.) None of my stool tests have ever suggested parasites, but that mix has been extremely helpful to me when I’ve used it in the past.

    So I think that most of the mold toxins at this point are buried in my fat cells. Gradually they come up to the surface and annoy my various organs, as well as (I now believe) clog up the dopamine receptors. The ordinary thing that happens at this point is that they very gradually move into my blood, through the liver and spleen, and into my intestines. (Whether Dr. S is right and NONE of them get out in people with the dreaded genotype, I don’t know.)

    I don’t know exactly what the mechanism of the Vitamin C IV’s are though. I asked both Dr. G and Dr. B this question, and they both gave me a laundry list of all the wonderful things that Vitamin C does (including killing pathogens, strengthening intracellular matrix, etc. etc.). That’s fine, but it doesn’t tell me how it gets out the poisons so well. It feels to me like a “power wash” of the top layer of my body and especially of those dopamine receptors. I wish I knew exactly what the mechanism of the power washing is though. If I did, maybe I could find other ways to complement or replicate it.

    (BTW....do you remember when you asked me what my biggest symptom was, and I said it was this kind of stuck lethargy? I’ve now concluded that’s the dopamine receptors being clogged. A professor named Richard Deth at Northeastern University has put a lot of research into how this happens in autism, and now he’s moved to also looking at it with regard to CFS. I am increasingly convinced that autism and CFS are basically the same underlying disease, and so I think it’s good that he’s extending his work our way.)

    I think for sure you’ve got a whole lot of toxicity built up, regardless of whether you have mold and/or lyme biotoxins. Metals and pesticides are bad things. Just go slow with the FolaPro. Like really slow. Crush up a pill and take the smallest amount you can get on a moistened fingertip to start. If you get too sick at the beginning, it will make you more nervous about continuing. (Though perhaps, as with me, convince you that it needs to be done.....)

    Probably Erik’s right and if I were as obsessive as he, I would be at 100% all the time. (Well, he didn’t say that. Not exactly.) That level of detail obsession is not my strength though. It’s not that I don’t want to live my life that way, it’s that I’d have to become a different person to do so. Perhaps it’s unrealistic to think that I can beg, borrow and steal from those around me and solve my problem through brute intelligence alone, but that still seems more doable for me than spending every second thinking about spores. We shall see though.


    A pic line seems scary to me, especially with my crappy immune system. Like an infectious disaster waiting to happen. Ick.

    My kidneys are one part of my body which always have seemed to me perfectly fine. There was one point was I was doing extremely heavy detoxing from the methylation support when I was drinking something like 20 quarts of liquid (heavily salted vegetable broth) when they hurt a little bit one night, but that’s the only time I can remember. (That was a wild methylation experience I had last summer. It certainly convinced me that I had a problem in that area!) And all my kidney tests have been normal.

    Still, the kidneys are important. I wonder though.....if you’re using every bit of the Vitamin C you ingest, does it even get in your kidneys to bother them? I will ask one of my doctors if no one here knows.

    My new doctor keeps bringing up glutathione IV’s, and Dr. G has mentioned them periodically too. One thing at a time though.

    Erik said that about mycotoxins denaturing at something like 500 or 600 degrees too. Wouldn’t that burn the house down though?

    I think what I need is to get someone to bring out one of those $10,000 ozone machines and do my house one more time. I think we’ve stirred up most of the dust now, and so one more time might be enough. My mold remediator’s not returning my calls about that now though, and so I think I will need to find someone else. It’s still tempting to spend the $10,000 myself and then zap everything I own every week or two, but (especially since we’re now living in an apartment) that’s not terribly realistic.


    That’s interesting that you’ve found them so useful. People at Dr. G’s seem to find them really helpful, and so it’s a little surprising that people don’t talk about them more on the board.

    Thanks to all for your comments!
    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  10. tansy

    tansy New Member

    and remains the most obviously effective single Tx I have had.

    Intitial benefits benefits inlcuded those one would expect following increased blood volume but even so I felt so much better and more so as my course of vit c IVs progressed. After the last one I still had some Sx etc but no longer felt so dreadfully ill and could sustain higher levels of actvity for quite some time (many months).

    High doses of oral vit C, when needed, help but nothing like as effectively as those IVs.

    tc, Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  11. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member

    My veins used to roll whenever they tried to draw blood or put in a line so I tense up everytime I have to have this done. I hate it too when they go hunting for a vein.

    It's great that you have someone who's good at it.

    I just learned that saline does a lot for our bodies. My GP told me that I have OH/NMH based on the fact that my blood pressure reading after standing for 2 minutes dropped 20 points. He told me that I needed to increase my salt. I have a thread on Sodium deficiency here ...

    Here's a link to what salt does.


    I started salt loading on May 1st, and noticed an immediate improvement in my energy. I can vacuum my LR/DR/K area in 15 minutes as opposed to it taking me all day with 1 hour breaks every 5 minutes. My body doesn't feel heavy anymore when I'm doing this. (Insert big grin here !!)

    It is also a good way to detox. I've been sweating like a pig since starting. A freind of mine told me it took her 2 months to get over her OH. She's on a special diet too so like me she was already healing.

    Yikes, you're eating wheat .... It's good that you gave up corn though.

    Some don't have to give up foods processed in facilities that process wheat and some do. I can't handle minute amounts of gluten. I'll get my myoclonus back if I do.

    That's great that you're watching your BP closely for reactions. I just started monitoring mine more too. I run low ... My docs always thought this was a good thing, but I just found out it makes me feel crappy.

    "How much improvement did you get from the gluten avoidance? I’ve heard of some people whose lives have been turned around solely from making that dietary change, but I’m not sure that they’re defined as having CFS. (Whatever CFS is, of course.) "

    WELL ... I definitely have CFS/ME/FM and have had a great response to dietary changes. I've had all the right tests and I'm on disability for it. I'm still struggling but ....

    I was using a motorized cart to grocery shop because my legs would give out on me (ataxia) but I don't anymore. My vision used to go out of focus when I walked and I walked into anyone who walked next to me and I don't do that anymore. I don't have to take Klonopin for myoclonus (seizures) anymore. I feel calm most of the time now.

    I try to keep my expectations about healing realistic, but it's hard to see progress after all of these years and not get excited ...

    Hope you feel better soon. Marcia

  12. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I meant to say that the only grain I currently am eating is RICE. I know I typed it in wrong at least once (now corrected), but it's possible I repeated the error again.

    That's interesting about the saline....
  13. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member

    Whew ... you may have to give up rice too, but there's no need to now. Unless you have hypoglycemia. Then giving up all grains (Paleo diet) will fix it. I wouldn't rush into anything though. Diet changes can be a real pain ..

    I was certainly surprised when I reacted so strongly to the sodium. I wasn't eating enough though ...

    I'm happy to see that the IVs have helped some. I may have to try this too someday ...


    PS.I forgot to say that I'm sleeping and sweating normally now too. All from dietary changes. [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  14. jenbooks13

    jenbooks13 New Member

    Lisa, IV vitamin C is 500 mg per ml, or "cc" so if you are getting 25 cc's you are getting 12.5 grams, a more reasonable amount imo. Vitamin C increases and conserves glutathione btw. These are antixoidants and they limit the free radical damage so....I would think Cathcart is worth researching, and I would recommend at least trying a glutathione "chaser" next time, my doc gives big IV's of vitamins and minerals, and then a little IV bag of glutathione in a saline (a 100 ml bag I think, cute and tiny) that goes in after. Glutathione is delicate so needs to be on its own so to speak. I can't remember what your methyhlation blocks are but also, glutathione improves my mood almost immediately, and I"m not sure why, but it does help Parkinson's and so I suspecti t may render the neurons more sensitive to dopamine or help protect dopamine or something like that.

    I can't eat brown rice because of the mold issues but do fine with Carolina white rice.
  15. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member


    The 30 g is oral. The 25 cc IV is in addition to that.

    I don't know what the difference between the oral and IV is. The oral doesn't have anything even remotely qualitatively like the IV's though.

    But I seem to be using up all the oral (urine ALWAYS is clear, bowels tolerate it), so my body must be using it for something.

    The doctor in Chicago actually is doing very slow IV pushes (with a syringe) since he's not set up to do bags. At some point when I go to Dr. G's, I will ask him about it.

    Where did you hear that brown rice has mold poison in it? I don't like that idea.


    What were the negative effects you got from the IV?
  16. tansy

    tansy New Member

    I had mine after other Tx so had already made some progress. This was back on the early 90s.

    The doctor who administered mine also gave them to others without ill effects. He had a lot of experience in treating patients with ME (also CFS, MCS, EI etc) so perhaps he was better able to judge who would tolerate it.

    I was observed closely the first time; anything I have an allergic reaction to given intravenously can trigger rapidly onset analphylactic shock.

    My doctor was optimistic but even so was pleasantly surprised by my postivie response. So was I.

    tc, Tansy