Healthy Whole Foods, Bad Processed Foods, Recipes

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by MamaDove, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. MamaDove

    MamaDove New Member

    After posting some comments about someone eating pizza and others still 'wondering' whether diet soda is all that bad along with many comments made about not knowing how to prepare WHOLE FOODS, It got me a thinking...

    Barrow and I, among others, have been using foods as a source of nutrition and healing...We are eating to live and no longer living to eat, which most of us believe had much to do with how we became so sick...We seem to share some of the same knowledge that could only come from research as well as wisdom and common sense but also from having LIVED. I learned about food quality and cooking cuz I actually watched my grandparents, parents and in-laws prepare foods.
    I have also had the pleasure of doing all the grocery shopping since I was 8 and have learned to read labels, however since I no longer buy anything packaged except Newmans Fig Newtons, I must research what foods contain what vitamins and minerals to get the nutrients I need to get well and stay that way...

    As usual, I am making this quite detailed when it doesn't need to be ;)

    My question is this:

    Wouldn't we all benefit from a thread for WHOLE FOODS where we could choose a food such as the BRAZIL NUT that jofms just posted, write what nutrients they contain, what harm if any they could do and if applicable, include a recipe that we enjoy (like barrow has in many posts)

    We could also start a BAD FOOD list, such as diet soda, list the toxins it contains and what it can do to the human body...

    Perhaps the board mods could put these two threads on top of the page along with the other 5 or so where they are visible every day and so that newbies will see them as well...

    What does everyone think?

    If we can all benefit from this info all in one place I believe it will help more of us begin the path to healing, dietary changes have been the only thing that has helped me to survive the brutal attack my body underwent 18 months ago, Barrows experience was quite similar...We have proven we could get down so low and only ourselves can help us improve...As far as we are concerned, no doctor or pharmaceutical has helped...Karen and I have new docs that are guiding us but we took the major steps to find them and make the commitment to healthier living...We can both write books and likely make millions, however, this board has helped me through the really bad times and giving me hope when I had none ( Barrows post about liver issues was what I am referring to, the first thing I read after I came back from near death) These experiences paved the way for me to open my mind about the healing powers we all possess...

    Okay, got away from me again...I have so much to say but my brain and my fingers don't see eye-to-eye since my ordeal, but I am getting better...

    So what does everyone think and how can we get this started...One more thing, I think the posts should be titled by the FOOD then include the info, however no comments other than additional recipes for the same foods or additional ingredients should be done in concurrent posts. We just need an informative place to go to reference foods, recipes and what to avoid to keep our health intact...

    Lemme know what ya think...For now I send everyone Peace, Love & Light, nitey nite~MamaDove
    [This Message was Edited on 06/28/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/28/2008]
  2. marti_zavala

    marti_zavala Member

    the bad food list will be too long - why bother.

    Anything you buy that does not look like it came out of the ground or picked of a tree would be on that list.

    Any chemical, even tap water would be on that list.

    But I love the whole food idea - no comments just a recipe.

    I would contribute my 3 or 4 favorite 10 MINUTE meals.

  3. MamaDove

    MamaDove New Member

    Wow, that was the fastest reply and I like the idea of just the whole foods thread along with recipes BUT that wouldn't 'help' those that don't have any knowledge or haven't been on here long enough or even perhaps need it 'drilled' that certain items should not be consumed...And you are so right that even the tap water would be listed but I think once again there are many unaware of such things or again, need it drilled...

    That may have sounded as if I want everyone to conform to the way I am doing things which I don't mean but I just know from my experience that many will not see results if they keep on consuming certain things because they are 'addicted'...Several of my friends are that way...They know what is causing their symptoms yet they continue to eat the same thing and suffer and cry about it...Maybe if they were reminded from time to time and not by a relative, friend or esp. a spouse, they may see things differently...

    I dunno, one of my friends tells me to stop trying to save the world yet I know I only do what I do to help others avoid suffering, but I guess it's true, we all have lessons to learn...

    As for me, I would be happy to have the Whole Foods thread because that's where I am at in my life but as usual I was concerned for others...If it is simpler and effective and I think we would all agree on that, we could do just one...

    Thank you Marti, you made it simple~MamaDove
  4. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    If everybody here knew what foods were healthy, they wouldn't be in this predicament with their health. It sure can't hurt to have reminders. Doctors point to the food pyramid as healthy. Well, according to that, pizza is healthy. It contains all the major food groups: veggies (if you have onions or peppers), dairy (cheese), grains for carbohydrates (crust) and fruit (tomatoes) and protein (sausage or pepperoni). But when you slop all those together, they become indigestible. With the nutritional advice we've gotten from doctors, it's no wonder we're all sick.

    Probably it would be good to leave out recipes for grains and starches because they aren't helping the gut dysbiosis and should be avoided.


  5. tansy

    tansy New Member

    when tested they were high in the bad fats and low in omega 3. Free range chickens, who ate grass, grubs, and who could run around freely were low in the bad fats and had much higher levels of omega 3.

    An EU funded study on organic produce, plant and animal, confirmed the benefits in terms of vit, mins, anti oxidants and the good fats.

    tc, Tansy
  6. MamaDove

    MamaDove New Member


    Had to say that if we all were able to discern what is good food or bad, we likely wouldn't be sick in the first place...

    Also, this idea about posting on THIS support group is because many of us ONLY come here, they don't research for themselves likely due to the time and energy factor and having heard over and over again from folks on here and elsewhere that they don't even know where to begin as far as what to eat that's healthy and how to prepare...I have a 58 year old friend who has never eaten asparagus and doesn't even know what to do with it!!! I had to show her step by step, she didn't know and couldn't access online due to carpal tunnel so I had to have a lengthy phone conversation about aspargagus...Still not eating it, too difficult for her :)

    That site you posted while very informative to me (because I can discern the info on there) also has a nutritional data section for fast food restaurants...OH JOY!!!
    If someone has been eating garbage for 30 years, for whatever reason,and given a choice by looking at the front page of that site, more times than not they are looking for the easy way out and will click that link in hopes that they find some conclusive evidence that something in that BIG MAC they ate for lunch is nutritious...

    I can just about guarantee that if Barrow started this thread, 50 posters would have allready agreed with the entire proposal ;) Karen has a fantastic way of conveying a message :)

    While I may not properly say what I mean to due in part to dain bramage, my POINT is to give EASY ACCESS to those of us that are unable/unwilling to do all the work it entails to get all the info that's out there and to seperate fact from horsepoo and put it all in one place...That's it! Not to have the person go to another site and start navigating only to get intimidated once more and give up altogether.

    Most people have the trust factor in place HERE allready because we all suffer the same conditions...

    Okay, I now feel as I did in my local support group where my group leader and I were advocating healthy living and everyone was more concerned about where the vending machines were cause they didn't eat all day, had diabetes and just had to get that snickers bar...UUUGGGHHH!!!

    I can only attempt to put this plan in motion...Maybe I should not have asked for 'acceptance' and just began the thread with the first food and instructions for others to follow...OR, make it easy on me and just defer all newbies and those really interested in better health to refer to all Barrow's posts...Makes life easier too...It has for me.

    So forgive me if it seems I am whining or giving up before I start, but this is beginning to feel once again like my local support group which finally ended cause it was like beating a dead horse to try and get the diet pepsi out of their mouth...

    Too much wasted energy...Karen, I defer to your infinite wisdom and hope that others see your posts as I did and finally become aware of what is happening and what to begin doing about it...

    Love you all and thanks for reading~MamaDove

    Once again I am left to suck on my binky...

  7. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I like the healthy food recipes. I go to a website that has lots of healthy recipes. When I find/remember it/have my caffeine, I will write it here.

    I like the idea of sites for good recipes or a specific recipe such as "Healthy Lentil Soup" where you simple click on the title to get the recipe. That way there would not be so much text which can be overwhelming to read.

    I think we need to keep in mind that it is not just a matter of ignorance that people may not be eating healthy foods. There are other factor's at work such as choosing not to eat this way, habit, lack of money to buy healthy foods or a combination of any and all of these factors.

    We sometimes have to be careful to not sound "preachy" and realize that people will either read the information or not read it. In this case recipes. LOL!!

    I think this subject goes beyond the scope of people with our DD. It is a subject that is important for people with or without a DD.

    What about all the people that are on other boards? Could this be posted on chit chat, as well as here or a post on each site where this info. can be found.

    Like L_Z, I think just recipes without too much comment might be a more user friendly format.

    Just brainstorming here.


    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
  8. milly526

    milly526 New Member

    Hello MamaDove,

    My name is milly526 and I am a newbie. Ilove your info and comments and am very interested in the whole foods approach. I have been wanting to join a support group and now I have and am looking forward to chatting with you and others. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 2004. What a journey it has been. Well I am going to close for now. Take care!


  9. MamaDove

    MamaDove New Member

    Yes GA, I was starting to sound 'preachy' that's why I backed off a bit...but thanks for the support...I can be 'appreciative' as well...:)

    Milly...Welcome to the board and glad you are interested in the whole food approach, the most effective step toward good health...Sorry you have been dealing with this since '04...I am sure you will be happy you joined our lil group where support and friendship are immeasurable and the only aspect of my illnesses that was a godsend...I would never know of all the lovely, caring people all over the world that share my thoughts and dreams and are there for you day and night, no matter what...Truly a pleasure to feel you belong :)

    Peace to both of you~MamaDove
  10. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    Sorry, I was not talking about you but the subject. I think passion about a subject is great.

    My suggestion was about the format of a post about nutrition.

    I may have been a bit unclear. NOt the first time!!!

    Now where is that caffeine???

    MILLY, welcome to the board. You will find great information and support here.

    Take care,
  11. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Any recipes we list should exclude all grains and starches, including things like beans and lentils, because they are not conducive to healing gut dysbiosis. They are healthy for healthy people, but not for us. A quick look at how to heal digestive problems will show that legumes are not a good idea.

    What's the point of doing healthy recipes for healthy people? That's what we should have paid attention to BEFORE we got sick, but now it's pointless. We want to get over cfs, not prolongue it. I did a stupid thing myself by eating brown rice and beans with gut dysbiosis. I did this for 2 years before I realized it was wrong. And I told people on here to eat that, too! All I can do is say I was wrong and tell people why and, everybody, please learn from my mistake.

    I don't think everybody with dysbiosis can get over it just with diet, it depends how bad it is, but one thing is certain - you won't get over it eating the wrong foods. If you feed the bad bacteria, they will continue to be strong and the good bacteria will not be able to gain the foothold they need to keep us healthy. You absolutely have to have certain types of good bacteria in the gut in certain amounts to be healthy. If you don't address this, your body will be in a constant fight and it will wear you down.

    Read all you can about guy dysbiosis until it's perfectly clear what's going on and what you need to do. If you can't get over it yourself with diet, enlist the help of an expert. Don't put it off. You can literally stay like that for decades.

  12. JoFMS

    JoFMS New Member

    Mamadove - fantastic idea.

    I think foods to avoid would be good also like msg, aspartame, caffeine, alcohol etc.

    Good foods - important to contain nutrients or why they are useful I think in case people have other problems.

    We are actually designing a vegetarian recipe book as part of the charity I work for and I plan to include an intro to it as I used to work in animal nutrition and am very interested in foods that harm, foods that heal. In my intro I will put the combiniations of foods but also things such as fresh herbs, their properties and a few things for ailments.

    I think also one of the main things is variety and to include as many ingredients, colour as possible to our diets - for example rather than eat a cheese toastie, eat one with wholegrain bread with cheese, spinach and garlic, fresh herbs etc.

    There are lots of ways we can improve our diets to help us out. As soon as the post is started then I will add to it.

    If the post isn't started then I will start one as think its very important. Its also importatn to eat something rather than nothing as I went through a phase of thinking everything was bad for me and then I didn't feel like eating at all which actually made me worse. So it's good to add the healthy things to your diets but remember eating is important and if you get to a phase where you dont know what to eat then eating something is usally better than eating nothing.

    Perhaps people can list their fave veggie juices too...

    Thanks for this, lets hope it helps some.
  13. sturg1

    sturg1 New Member

    I think your idea is a good one. Thank you!

    I agree that there are other sites out there, but a lot of us use this great site as our main source of information and guidance.

    Thanks for sharing your passion!
  14. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member


    This is a good idea for a thread here. I lucked into finding out that food was a problem for me back in 2005 when I finally developed celiac disease from eating gluten.

    I started out researching gluten back in 2005 on the celiac dot com board where I learned about how gluten or other foods could be causing CFS/ME/FM and a host of other problems.

    I thought the people at celiac dot com were nuts or didn't really have CFS or FM back then, but now I know better. Many of them recovered just by eliminating gluten and dairy.

    Then I came here and got confused by all the threads on antiviral treatments, new studies on CFS, etc. There wasn't much talk, if any, about foods on this message board back then.

    There is a lot of info on the web about how diet is the most common cause of medical problems. What we need to understand is that the diet needed to overcome our CFS/ME/FM will vary from one person to the next.

    You may feel better within a few days or weeks by giving up gluten or dairy or soy or corn or eggs or or or ... unfortunately the food intolerance tests won't pick up everything.

    And most likely will change after someone has been on a certain diet for awhile. I can eats eggs again now, but some people will never be able to eat eggs. I'll never be able to eat gluten because I'll get celiac disease again, but others can.

    Most people can't handle gluten, dairy or chemicals, but they won't know it until they get it out of their diets and start feeling healthy again. Once you feel healthy all the time, finding out which foods you react to is easy.

    Treating leaky gut or gut dysbosis is common on the food boards too. Some will heal simply by adding in probiotics and some will have to work at it harder by going on the candida diet.

    You know how our medical community is though. I'm just waiting for them to announce that the only cure for obesity is gastric bypass ... LOL


    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
  15. victoria

    victoria New Member

    Even Rich Carson said that juicing etc was instrumental to his gettng better, beyond taking supplements, even tho his site sells them!

    People can skip over threads if they're not interested, I certainly do. But different people find eating different ways can be a major help... and how does anyone find out unless they do read about the possibility...

    like reading about hypoglycemia, candida, gluten intolerance, etc...

    all of these have to do ultimately with food choices and make a huge differences for certain subsets of people. So imho, I think this deserves a place on this board for sure.

    I really find it helpful to be reminded to juice, personally; all too easy to forget about it, yet I do feel so much better when I do it!

    The rule I try to live by, is that if an ingredient is something that has a chemical name, is forget it... too many excitotoxins in prepared foods, just to get us to eat more!

    all the best,

  16. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    "What's the point of doing healthy recipes for healthy people? That's what we should have paid attention to BEFORE we got sick, but now it's pointless."

    I am somewhat confused you are saying healthy people do not need the info. Yet at the same time we should have paid attention before we got sick? Isn't this part of preventive medicine.

    Shouldn't it be important for healthy people also. If I follow your thinking then maybe proper nutrition before you get sick is just as important.

    THe only reason that I thought would be a good idea on chit chat with a mention on other sites where to get this valuable information was that the people on chit chat also have health problems. Just one idea. I think you would want all the imput you can get.

    Eating well may be different for different people just as some of us react to medications differently. I am not talking about fast food, pizza, whatever but some people can not tolerate a food while other's can.

    But having a healthy diet is only one factor to help our illness. Not everyone with CFS/FM have gut issues.

    I do not think that it comes down to one thing causing our DD.

    Nutrition is important for anyone with a chronic illness.

    Yet I congratulate you, if this is what has helped you!!!!!

    But I think we have to look at the whole picture where good nutrition is one of the things important for us to do.

    There is no magic bullet for people with our DD.


    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
  17. bunnyfluff

    bunnyfluff Member

    matn has been quite successful w/ diet.

    My diet did not make me ill. I have always eaten very well, with very little processed foods. People always commented on my kids eating steamed veggies and fruit while theirs were stuffing down fast food.

    Lyme and mycoplasmas were to blame for this.

    That being said, I think that it is important for ppl that have severe health issues like these to eat as cleanly as possible, just to reduce stress on the body as a whole.

    It has been proven time and again that eating "real" foods is not more expensive that eating processed or convenience foods. It may take more planning, but it is not difficult to do.

    I have seen comments like "I could never give up wheat/cokes/cigarettes/(fill in the blank)" But your body cannot do an efficient job when it is already defending against these kinds of toxins. So, whatever you can do to lighten the load only makes sense.

    Kudos to mamadove and karen for sharing positive information, whether others appreciate it or not.

  18. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Where have I EVER said that people don't want to get well or they are ignorant? What are you talking about?

    And why would anyone think that's what I meant from what I've been posting about food? And I didn't say healthy people don't need diet info. We're on a cfs message board. Everything we're saying pertains to cfs. So we need diets conducive to healing cfs. I shouldn't have to mention this every time, it's obvious.

    We don't need diets for healthy people here because we are not healthy. That is what would be pointless. We didn't get proper nutrition before we got sick but we don't need lectures on it now. We don't come on cfs message boards before we get sick to see what we need to know to not get sick. And by now, we all have figured out what is healthy. But dysbiosis is a different matter. If you have a bad case of it, then you have to eat a certain way to get over it. Period.

    It's very simple, and there are plenty of doctors who already know this - gut dysbiosis causes nutritional deficiencies which cause the symptoms of cfs and fibro. The one doctor I am currently being treated by said he has treated hundreds of cfsers and all the of them had abnormal stool analysis test results. You have to starve out the bad bacteria in the gut, that's how you correct dysbiosis. There are certain foods to avoid, which are healthy for the general population, but not for people with dysbiosis.

    There are several magic bullets for this DD, not just one. The main components of cfs/fibro are gut dysbiosis, adrenal fatigue and infection. Let these go long enough, and damage sets in and causes yet more problems. I am telling people what they need to know to fix their bodies. No one diet is good for everybody, you really need to get tested to help figure it out. You need to know about your short chain fatty acids, certain pancreatic enzyme levels, bacteria levels - good and bad.

    But we do know that for dysbiosis, there are certain foods to avoid, like high glycemic index foods and foods that are hard to digest. If you're really sick, you're much better off avoiding them and doing everything you can to get well. Guessing can make you or break you.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
  19. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    Is there any one diet for FM/CFS? I understand that gut issues can cause fibro like symptoms.

    But will it solve everything? Will it cure all of us? I have not seen any proof of diet along curing our DD.

    Again, I am so glad this has worked for you and do not mean to be disrespectful. I think it would help us to follow good dietary habits.

    That is why I was confused about the quote. I did not realize you were talking about this posting nutririon being only for FM/CFS. THank you for explaining.

    I totally agree with you about good nutrition.

    Please keep in mind that some of us get fibro fog and sometimes it can be hard to process information. I have read only one of your posts, at least I think, about this subject, so that may have confused me more, LOL!

    Lets get back to how people want to format this idea. I really like the idea of posting healthy recipes.

    GA[This Message was Edited on 06/30/2008]
  20. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member

    I get this now. The flora in our guts is so out of whack that we need to eat foods that don't encourage bad bacteria to grow and we need to take certain supplements that kill the bad guys before we can recover.

    Just eliminating those foods that we are intolerant to won't stop the bad bacteria from mutliplying. As in, while I can eat potatoes and rice, if I do my digestive tract will a breeding ground for bad bacteria.

    I can't afford the labs others are having done, so I'll have to count on Candidase or Pau d'arco, etc to kill off the bad guys. I can avoid foods that contribute to the bad population though ... And I was enjoying those fruits ...

    For what it's worth, I'm not sure we all have this. I've seen where most of the CFS experts recommend patients go on the elimination diet so food intolerances appear to be common. ALTHOUGH, this just came to me, THIS MAY BE WHY ALL THOSE CFS PATIENTS SEEING THE EXPERTS DIDN'T HEAL. Just a thought ...


    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]