Heartburn or Acid Reflux (whatever it's called)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Tweldis, Nov 29, 2002.

  1. Tweldis

    Tweldis New Member

    Does anyone have a natural approach to reflux? I eat right and I am not overweight, so I'm wondering why I came down with this. I can't even drink water without feeling like I'm floating away..I don't want to live on medication the rest of my life for this either....Suggestions?
  2. Tweldis

    Tweldis New Member

    Does anyone have a natural approach to reflux? I eat right and I am not overweight, so I'm wondering why I came down with this. I can't even drink water without feeling like I'm floating away..I don't want to live on medication the rest of my life for this either....Suggestions?
  3. selma

    selma New Member

    I know someone who died from it. Something went down into his lungs at night. Take what will work for you.
    With this DD it would be great not to take any meds. But for the quality of LIFE or even life itself it's a small price to pay. I hope you feel better. Sleep with an extra pillow to raise head or put something under legs of head part of bed. Love, Selma
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Boy, am I glad I saw your post!
    Docs will tell you that GERD is a progressive disease, and in most cases, if you do what they tell you to do, it will progress for sure.
    Why? Because 2/3 of people with GERD have it due to undigested food backing up due to not enough acid and/or enzymes in their stomach..... both enzyme and stomach acid production goes down as you get older. Antacids make the problem progressively worse for these people.
    Also, some of the meds we take make this worse, as they relax the valve that keeps stomach contents where they belong (ie. xanax, klonopin, etc.).
    When I was listening to docs, I was taking at least 4-8 Gaviscon per day, and sleeping on a big wedge pillow. Every time I bent over, I threw up in my mouth. I was in constant pain and didn't dare eat tomato sauce or chocolate, etc.
    Then I started studying Naturopathy. Within seven months I was able to throw away the wedge pillow and eat whatever I wanted.
    First, make sure you are part of the 2/3 who have too little acid rather than too much. If you do turn out to be too acidic, then I have nothing to offer except to try to eat a higher alkaline diet....lots of salads and veggies, little meats and grains. Figs are the most alkaline food on the planet, so they are good for high acid people. Look up "alkaline foods" in a websearch to get help with this.

    To find out which you are, wait until the next time you feel indigestion or heartburn while eating. Stop eating and immediately swallow 2 Tablespoons of either lemon juice or cider vinegar. Wait a couple of minutes. If you feel worse, then you do have too much acid. If you feel better, then you are too low in acid to digest your food properly and this is causing it to back up.
    Start by taking 500 mgs. of Calcium Citrate with each meal, plus one full-spectrum Digestive enzyme caplet. If that does not help it after a couple of weeks, you may try adding hydrocloric acid tablets to the calcium and enzymes. Start with just one as they are strong. Keep eating smaller meals and avoid eating within 3 hrs. of bedtime. Taking a Probiotic daily would not be a bad idea either. Stay away from coffee, chocolate, and very spicey foods until it starts to heal.
    It took me seven months to heal completely, and it has been about 8 yrs. now without any significant symptoms. The calcium is good for your bones and your nerves too.
    Good luck,
    Klutzo
  5. Tweldis

    Tweldis New Member

    I appreciate the information Klutzo. I will try this approach. I am on Xanax and a beta blocker, I've heard that it could have something to do with the reflux...It's not fun being between a rock and a hard place....

    Tweldis
  6. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Never fear! I am still on Xanax and cannot do without it, but I was still able to get my reflux under control with this program. I have never heard that a beta-blocker would contribute to reflux, though it can sure put the pounds on!
    Let us know how you are doing.
    Hugs,
    Klutzo
  7. Browsing

    Browsing New Member

    EAT FOODS AS FRESH AS POSSIBLE. CAFFINE AND CHOCOLATE ARE HARD ON THE DIGESTION SYSTEM. THESE SHOULD BE LIMITED, IF POSSIBLE. AVOID IF POSSIBLE, IF YOU ARE NOT FEELING WELL.

    TRY HERBAL TEAS THAT CLEANSE THE SYSTEM. SMOOTH MOVE, FOUND AT LOCAL FOOD STORES AND GNC. MAKE IT PART OF YOUR DIET REGIMEN. CONSTIPATION, EVEN THIN WILL CAUSE DIGESTIVE UPSET. ON A VEGGIE DIET AND CONSTIPATED AND YOU WILL NOT FEEL GOOD. EXCERCISE THE WAY IT MAKE YOU FEEL BEST, INCREASE CIRCULATION, STRETCH YOUR MUSCLES AND CONTINUE TO DRING LOTS OF WATER.

    I BREAK THE STRICT DIET, BUT I DRINK HERBAL TEAS AND WATER TO CLEANSE MY SYSTEM. IT IS NOT OKAY TO HAVE A BOWEL MOVEMENT ONE TIME A WEEK, EVEN THIN. GOD GAVE US A BODY TO ELIMINATE OUR FOOD, MANY THINGS SLOW AND STOP THAT DESIGNED PROCESS. TRY NATURAL WAYS TO CORRECT IRREGULARITY. YOU WILL FEEL BETTER. EAT YOUR LAST MEAL AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE, ON A REGULAR BASIS. EATS LOTS OF FRESH VEGGIES, IF LATE AT NIGHT. DRINK A CLEANSING NATURAL HERBAL TEA.

    [This Message was Edited on 11/30/2002]
  8. laurielea

    laurielea New Member

    That is definitley some great advice. You are right on about the acid and enzymes. Curious, why are you still on xanax Klutzo? Digestive trouble can be quite serious as you noted, glad you were diligent to look beyond what the Dr's were saying. I have some great research articles on diegestion if anyone is interested. They explain even more in depth what has been discussed.
    Laurie
  9. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    To answer your question: My FMS was brought on by an auto accident in which I suffered quite a bit of brain damage and injury to discs in my spine. I cannot walk unassisted without Xanax to ease muscle spasms. Anti-spasmodic drugs cause me to lose my balance completely, so Xanax was second best. I am taking much less than I took at the start, but whenever I have gone off it (four times so far) within 3 days I am unable to walk alone again. I don't like it, but it's a trade-off that is worth it for me.
    Klutzo
  10. Emmy1

    Emmy1 New Member

    so much for that suggestion on what to do when you are having the incredible pain of acid reflux. I will do that test in probably a few minutes from now.
    Of course, I am also very overweight,(about 70 pounds!)of which I CAN NOT lose any not even an ounce, no matter what I do or whether I eat or not, I know being overweight does not help with the gerd. Anyway, thanks a lot, Emmy.
  11. Emmy1

    Emmy1 New Member

    So..I did the test you suggest and guess what? RELIEF!!
    I have been getting up during the night and having drinks of cream, sometimes half a glass of water with one eight to one fourth of bicarbonate soda, and absolutely no relief! NOTHING works! But this cider vinager seems to be giving me some relief. What now? Buy some hydrocolic acid?
    Excuse me for using your post, Tweldis.

    I did go off coffee, do not drink sodas. Last night, I took 1 teaspoon of powdered calcium citrate and it did help it a lot.Was thinking of taking it before going to bed tonight. Love to all, Emmy.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/30/2002]
  12. laurielea

    laurielea New Member

    Wow, sorry to hear about all that. My husband has a brain injury, it has been quite traumatic to say the least for our family. It has been 2 years but he still has some vestibular problems as well as numerous cognitive deficits and visual field loss to name a few. What exactly does the xanax do? I am curious. Thanks!
    Laurie
  13. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    dear klutzo: you told me some time ago to try calcium citrate along with my dig. enzyemes, I'm taking a braod spectrum plant dig. enzyme don't guess can mention the name, but i researched it by talking to the RN tech. person in CA and she sent me the materialeven cheney noted in my last phone consult dication that it was better than the betaine hCL and pancreatic he was recommending, the betaine was bothering where i had an peptic erossion although last e scope the GI dr. said i had none, but said my stomach was comign up into throat , i refused the acid blockers and he agreed if i stopped the binging (my body at l32 is so so hungry) and i'm in bed so much i can only eat 2 meals) and prop up the bed, to forego the acid blcokers he had no probl. with the enzymes WHICH BY THE WAY have a substance called dppiv and were devloeped for autism kids, it is a plant equivablent to HCL

    they work ok as long as i don't gorge

    ANYWAY i bought he calcium citrate sometime ago took l with a meal and hurt my stomach, i know i havae alkaline reflux ie, our cells are too acidic from cfids/fms and the gut too alkali ie hypoachordia,

    I"m looking at the bottle the are capsules l,000 mg.

    What is your suggestion? Break it open and mix half in water or what?

    Take with the enzymes at mealtime???

    What is the purpose of calcium citrate????

    I"m confused, please clarify........ thank you so much

    paul mark
  14. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Paul - If you had an injury to your stomach or an ulcer, I'd suggest asking the doctor if you can take the calcium citrate or not. The citrate form is more acidic to begin with, which helps digestion. If he says OK, never take more than 500 mgs. at one time...you can't absorb more than that. You are in a "Catch-22" if you have alkaline digestion but have also had an erosion.....the treatment for one would aggravate the other....better ask the doc!

    Laurie - So sorry about your husband. I hope he is getting some therapy to help regain as much ability as possible. Xanax eases the spasms along my spine which throw me over. I was mis-dx'd with MS at first because I lost my balance so much. Without Xanax, I can't even turn my neck far enough to back the car down the driveway, let alone go anywhere. Though it's labeled use is for anxiety, it does have muscle-relaxing properties too.

    Emmy - You have started the road to recovery! Just follow what I told Tweldis to do. HCL is a LAST resort. Try 500 mgs. CA Citrate with each meal, and a digestive enzyme with each meal first. That may be enough. I have some good news for you about weight also. When I beat this thing, I was 70 lbs. overweight, but it worked anyway! I am now 50 lbs. overweight and still working at getting it down. See my post on "High protein/low carb diet problem" for some info on the plan I used. I have NEVER been hungry on this diet. BTW, docs will blame GERD on your weight, but when I came down with GERD, I weighed 54 lbs. less than I do now, and was not at all overweight. If that valve is too loose, you can have GERD and be skinny as a rail, it won't matter. Keep us posted. I hope it works as well for you as it did for me. You may take CA citrate at bedtime, unless you are taking Magnesium at bedtime (which is the best time to take it). If you take them together, neither will be well absorbed. I take my CA citrate with meals, and the dinner dose seems to hold me over just fine.

    Hope I answered everything. Hugs,
    Klutzo



    [This Message was Edited on 12/01/2002]
  15. TaniaF

    TaniaF Member

    I think I have GERD because I sometimes have a yucky taste in my mouth when I wake up or even a slight sore throat. Can't really tell if its acid or post nasal drip???
    Anyway, they gave me Prevacid at night. The other thing I do (and maybe this is wrong) I take my Xanax at night just before I do to bed. Maybe this relaxes the valve too much at bedtime??? Do you think we should take the xanax earlier in the day? Would this avoid the acidity at night???
    Tania
  16. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Did you have an endoscopy done to confirm that reflux is the cause of your sore throat? Or, did you at least have a barium swallow x-ray done to confirm the dx of reflux? I would not take Prevacid without a firm diagnosis. Prevacid is one of the anti-acid drugs, and as you know from reading my first answer to this post, I disagree with using them in the 2/3 of people who have too little acid, not too much. Your description of symptoms does sound like a mild case of GERD, but as long as you are on Prevacid, the easy test I mentioned to see if you are low or high acid will not work. Conventional docs just don't get it when it comes to this problem. Keep in mind that I am not a doctor, so I can't tell you not to take the Prevacid. I will tell you that acid-blockers used long-term can cause hyperplasia of the stomach lining, a pre-cancerous condition, and gastric cancer is 95% fatal within 5 yrs. I know this because my cousin has hyperplasia right now from taking Prilosec for several yrs., and he continues to take it despite the fact that my father and grandfather both died of gastric cancer. I don't trust doctors as far as I can throw them, so take my opinions with that in mind, please.
    Xanax will losen the valve, but if you are like me, you need it at bedtime so you can get to sleep. I was able to get relief despite taking the Xanax, so I see no reason why you can't also. Be sure to sleep on a wedge pillow, or a couple of regular pillows until you start getting relief. You can also put bricks under your mattress at the head of the bed to raise it up a bit. Whatever works best for you. It took 7 months of treatment for me to be able to sleep on a flat pillow. Natural therapies are much slower to work, but much safer also.
    Best wishes,
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 12/01/2002]
  17. TaniaF

    TaniaF Member

    What's in this kind of supplement that we look for at the store? Also does it help to take Papaya chewable tablets and chewable Bromelain? I want to start a new regiment--no use taking pills we don't need. My doctor said to take Prevacid as a precaution, even when nothing is bothering me. The allergist says my yucky taste can be from fungal overgrowth on the tongue--because I use a cortisone inhaler for asthma. My husband read these posts and is concerned--he has been taking Zantac for 20 years just as a measure to prevent anything. We are in our early 50's and I believe it's true that we don't digest properly. Other than the above questions--any remedy for excess gas that cause gas cramps?
    Thanks
    Tania
  18. TaniaF

    TaniaF Member

    Is calcium carbonate bad for the tummy vs the citrate?
    Tania
  19. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Zantac is not as bad as Prevacid, but will still make the problem worse IF you are low acid, as opposed to high. Both of you are right at the age where both acid and enzymes start to fall. Keep in mind that doctors are insanely busy and get most of their info from drug salespersons. This is just like letting the fox guard the hen house door, and is, in my opinion, unethical. You have to be your own advocate and do unbiased research on everything regarding your health, just to be safe.
    Bromelain and Papain are great but you need a Digestive Enzyme capsule with a full spectrum, so it can digest fats, proteins, and all sorts of carbos. Just ask at any health food store, or look at the store on this site or do a web search. You need lactase, protease, lipase, etc. All of the full-spectrum ones will list these things. If you can find one with Bromelain in it also, that's even better, since it also acts as an anti-inflammatory. Just to give you an example, my Digestive Enzymes, which are made by Nutraceutical Sciences Institute, have Protease, Amylase, Lipase, Cellulase, Malt diastase, Invertase, Lactase, Alpha Galactosidase, and Pectinase.
    The reason for Calcium Citrate as opposed to Carbonate is two-fold. First, Citrate is acidic (citric acid) and the other forms will not help increase your stomach acid. Secondly, it is much better absorbed, so even though it costs a bit more, you actually get a lot more for the price. Bio-availabilty is key with any supplement....you don't want to pay for expensive urine from unabsorbed supplements!
    Gas and cramps can be a sign of poor digestion. With no acid at all in your stomachs, I am not surprised. If you have IBS, then you may need to steer clear of some very healthy veggies, like beans and onions, that cause gas, at least until you can get it treated. Over the counter Gas-X is a pretty good product; just don't use it all the time in lieu of getting to the bottom of the problem.
    You can't treat reflux unless you KNOW that is what you are treating, and you can't know that without a barium swallow x-ray, so please don't follow my advice if you are not dx'd with GERD.
    Could it be that the "icky" tase in your mouth is from your asthma inhaler or the fungus as suggested, and not gastric reflux? Are you sure you have reflux? What I am recommending, including the little test I suggested, is only for reflux, not for other conditions.
    Please note in Paul Mark's post where he tried Calcium Citrate at a very high dose with an eroded area in his stomach (this is not GERD) and it made him worse. I would feel really bad if someone who was not properly diagnosed with GERD followed this plan and got worse. Please be careful.
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 12/01/2002]
    [This Message was Edited on 12/01/2002]
  20. TaniaF

    TaniaF Member

    I did a Barium swallow x-ray about four years ago and GERD was not seen. But of course this was four years. I do not have heartburn nor vomiting in my mouth so to speak. Just the yucky taste and sometimes a scratchy throat--but like we said --could be asthma meds and sinus post nasal drip. I do have IBS and it alternates. Gas pain has been my problem for years. I have used phazyme but have heard people like Gas-X after their dinner meal. I sometimes use Bentyl for cramps--but not too often. Just the past few weeks, I have had a terrible nervous stomach and IBS--dr did several stool tests for bacteria and ova/parasites---all negative. So, this makes me think that it could be digestive problems. BTW, I know calcium citrate is good for bones too, but when the IBS is kicking up I have to use carbonate to firm up the stools. Thanks so much for all the information.
    Tania
    Does this acid test above work for people without GERD too? How else can you tell if you are acidid or akaline?