High protein/Low carb diet update

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, Dec 11, 2002.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    To Mikie and others on some version of the Syndrome X, Metabolic Syndrome or Metabolic Typing diets:

    I am now two months into the diet. I have lost 19 lbs. without being hungry, I am no longer bloated, I have zero IBS or GERD symptoms, and my moods are more even.
    Lab results, however, were a mixed bag. The abscence of sugars resulted in a dramatic drop in triglycerides and blood sugar and stroke risk, but eating all that meat, eggs, etc. that I never used to eat at all resulted in a dramatic rise in LDL and risk of heart attack.

    Result: Before diet After diet

    Tot. Cholesterol 275 250
    LDL 151 187
    HDL 34 35
    Triglycerides 374 136
    Fast Bld. sugar 104 79
    CHD Risk ratio 8. 7.1
    stroke risk 11 3.8

    This is still totally unacceptable. I hope the rest of you are getting better results. I guess the only thing for me to do is just stop eating completely....then my cholesterol will have to go down!
    Seriously, I will have to stop the small amts. of cheese I eat, and replace my morning hard-boiled egg with something else, but it will have to be nuts, because anything else will make me gag (I've tried it all).
    Still trying,
    Klutzo

    P.S. For those of you not familiar with the relatively new stroke risk ratio, it is achieved by dividing your triglycerides by your HDL, and a normal result is 2 or less.
  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    To Mikie and others on some version of the Syndrome X, Metabolic Syndrome or Metabolic Typing diets:

    I am now two months into the diet. I have lost 19 lbs. without being hungry, I am no longer bloated, I have zero IBS or GERD symptoms, and my moods are more even.
    Lab results, however, were a mixed bag. The abscence of sugars resulted in a dramatic drop in triglycerides and blood sugar and stroke risk, but eating all that meat, eggs, etc. that I never used to eat at all resulted in a dramatic rise in LDL and risk of heart attack.

    Result: Before diet After diet

    Tot. Cholesterol 275 250
    LDL 151 187
    HDL 34 35
    Triglycerides 374 136
    Fast Bld. sugar 104 79
    CHD Risk ratio 8. 7.1
    stroke risk 11 3.8

    This is still totally unacceptable. I hope the rest of you are getting better results. I guess the only thing for me to do is just stop eating completely....then my cholesterol will have to go down!
    Seriously, I will have to stop the small amts. of cheese I eat, and replace my morning hard-boiled egg with something else, but it will have to be nuts, because anything else will make me gag (I've tried it all).
    Still trying,
    Klutzo

    P.S. For those of you not familiar with the relatively new stroke risk ratio, it is achieved by dividing your triglycerides by your HDL, and a normal result is 2 or less.
  3. Madelyn

    Madelyn New Member

    ..out of total ignorance here, but I just wonder if it takes longer for the cholesterol numbers to turn around?
    Madelyn
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Don't I wish!!! It takes about 10-14 days for your cholesterol numbers to change,and about 3 days for triglycerides to change. That is why if you eat just one fast food meal, your cholesterol can be 50 pts. higher for up to two wks. afterwards! Makes it hard to justify cheating even once in awhile, doesn't it? Bummer.
    Klutzo
  5. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    Overall, isn't your health and cholesterol better than it was BEFORE you changed your eating habits?? I know that the triglycerides are the biggest indicator of potential heart problems and yours look great! Eggs aren't bad for you, so there's got to be something else you can do to get your LDL improved. Have you been able to find any reliable info on what causes LDL to go up? I don't buy the eggs bit either. No offense to you, but docs scream about eggs all the time, and they're God's food, all natural, no preservatives, colors, sugars, etc... I trust God and eggs completely and have two EVERY day! My LDL is 130. Here's how you determine your risk factor for heart disease. (cholesterol 101) He he....

    Divide your total cholesterol by your HDL to get your risk factor.

    5:1 or higher is dangerous
    4.5 average risk
    3.5 or below - Ideal ratio

    I come out at 3.06, so the eggs and meat haven't hurt me abit. It's got to be something else that is affecting your LDL. Somebody here knew all about the cholesterol in eggs...was it LBinCA?? Did I spell that right?

    (scratching my head)
    Marilyn :)
  6. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    You may not have remembered that I am only a dissertation away from being a Naturopathic Doctor, specializing in Nutritional Medicine.
    You are absolutely right about eggs...that is why I was eating them daily! I am just desperate, that's all, and willing to try everything, even the dumb stuff conventional docs suggest!
    I eat very lean meat. When I use ground meat, I use 7% fat ground sirloin, cook it well, then drain and rinse it in hot water to get rid of grease and fat.
    Maybe it is the hard cheese I nibble on inbetween meals...about 3 ounces daily. But, I love cheese and it's my only vice, darn it all. I don't want to live to be 100 and have it feel like it took 200 yrs. to get there because I'm not having any fun! Do you eat cheese?
    Genetics plays a MAJOR role in this, and what you eat is only 20% of what determines your numbers. Even my doctor said that numbers as bad as mine are genetic, and that I shouldn't beat myself up. I wouldn't keep tweaking my diet, but I can't tolerate the darn drugs at all, and feel I have to do something.
    I just started Pregnenolone in a desperate attempt to lower the cholesterol. I have always been afraid to experiment with hormones, and am only taking 10 mgs. so it may not work.
    Weight may also be a factor, as I am still 45 lbs. overweight, and since menopause it all moved to my tummy, which is proven to have a strongly adverse affect on cholesterol ratios.
    The last time I was skinny, even though my total cholesterol was only 163, my risk ratio was a dangerous 5.5. I exercise 5-6 days per week for 30-50 mins., so there is nothing more I can do to raise that low HDL, which is the main cause of my risk ratio problem. One whole side of my family has this low HDL. My cardiologist told me to make my peace with people and be prepared, and eat some cheese and have some ice cream once in awhile, because it isn't a matter of "if" I have a heart attack, but "when". He doesn't believe I'll survive it, since my arteries are only 30% of normal size thanks to Rheumatic fever, and my costo-chondritis and MVP and my DDD at C6 and C7 all cause heart-attack-like symptoms that I have learned to semi-ignore.
    We all gotta go, but I don't want to go just yet.
    Yes, my triglycerides are better, which will help me avoid the diabetes that most Syndrome X folks get, but my LDL is a whole lot worse. It was 120 when I started changing my diet a yr. ago. Some Naturopaths think high LDL is OK as long as it isn't being oxidized, which is why I eat tons of anti-oxidant foods and take vitamin E and green tea and alpha-lipoic acid, etc. I hope they are right.
    Thanks for your input, and I'm glad it's working so well for you. I do intend to stay on it because I have so much more energy, and I feel in control of my eating for the first time in my life. (I have always had an awful sweet tooth).
    Klutzo
    P.S. My husband's Cardiologist told him he has "cholesterol resistance". I had not heard of this, but he says it affects about 30% of all people, about the same as the % that have high cholesterol. When my husband eats high fat foods, his body actually slows down manufacture of cholesterol to compensate. He deliberately eats high fat meals before his blood tests, since he has seen this lower his cholesterol by as much as 40-50 pts.! He eats tons of fat and his risk ratio is only 1.8. His family is like that....genetics again.

    [This Message was Edited on 12/11/2002]
  7. Kim

    Kim New Member

    I admire your determination. When I stopped dairy (for reasons other than cholestrol) it was like going off cocaine or something! I've given up all refined sugars and high glycemic index food but if I have candida it'll just have to put up with my frozen fruit smoothies! I use soy milk and protein powder then add frozen, low glycemic fruit and boy is it good.

    Best wishes.

    kim
  8. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Sounds yummy!
    I can't have chocolate either, at least not much, since I have MVPS, but one of my new treats is something I call vanilla milk. I take a cup of Lactaid Milk and add a shake of Stevia and a teaspoon of Vanilla Extract. It takes like a thin vanilla milkshake. Sounds pathetic, but after all this time without sugar, it tastes like a major treat!
    Klutzo
  9. Kim

    Kim New Member

    I know. Just putting some vanilla whey protein in some watered-down rice milk helps my sweet cravings.

    I hate to see you give up the eggs and cheese. This sounds sick but what if you boiled the eggs, took out the yokes and filled them with low fat cottage cheese. I'm making myself hungry again.

    Sometimes I'd just like to say forget the depression, forget the FM, forget the MVPS, forget the acid reflux and candida and order a large pizza with extra cheese! And top it off with a hot fudge sundae.

    I'm surprised they don't factor in blood pressure in the stroke risk ratio. I've noticed that my HDL is very reactive to changes in my diet but my LDL and triglicerides aren't. This is the one area that I'm blessed in...my triglicerides have never gone over 48 (even when I was eating cookies and cake) and sometimes my HDL nears 100. Genetics. I'd swap the HDL for the bi-polar any day!

    kim
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    That's great about the weight loss, but I'm sorry about the cholesterol problems. I will find out later this month how my diet has affected my labs. Take care.

    Love, Mikie
  11. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    I absolutely ADORE cheese! Especially the extra sharp cheddars. Hard cheese is supposedly healthier for us than the soft cheese from what I've always read. I also read an article on women and heart disease and the reason so many of them don't survive heart surgery is because their veins are too small too work with. I guess I will count my lucky stars because I am tall and right on the line between medium and large frame. I used to always feel bad because I wasn't petite like everyone else. Now I know I would maybe have a higher heart surgery survival rate, plus a lower risk of osteoporosis. There's alot to be said for being bigger boned! My sister has the same cholesterol problem as you....all her numbers are good except for the LDL. Let me know if you come up with anything because she's nervous about it too.

    I did your stroke risk ratio test and got a 1.86. I think I'm alot like your spouse, the more meat I eat, the better my cholesterol levels get. I've been a big meat and egg and cheese eater all my life and so far it's been working out okay for me.

    Marilyn :)
  12. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    Okay--I am screwed...if my math is right.
    I took marilyn's heart disease formula,
    and my result was 7.78
    Then I took Klutzo's stroke risk ratio formula,
    it came out 8.9
    I am so confused anyway--every doctor I have spoken with in the last few months, has told me something different concerning diet.
    High protein, low protein---diary products, none...gawd! Low fat---fat doesn't matter. Quit the sugar and processed flour, then that will do no good!
    Went to an endocrinologist today, as I am spilling huge amounts of calcium and phosporous in urine. He told me just the opposite of the urologist I have to see---as far as foods.
    I give up--
    Karen
  13. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    Can you post your cholesterol results here so we can look at them? Maybe, just maybe, you made an error? (hopefully!) I know how confusing this can be. I used to listen to all the doctors too, and finally decided to follow my head and heart and eat real whole foods, no junk, no processed stuff, nothing from a box or bag. It all works great for me, my extra weight drops off, my head clears up, my depression goes bye bye, my cholesterol levels are excellent, etc... I could go on and on. All I know for sure is that sometimes we have to research this on our own and make our own decisions. Mostly it just takes common sense. It just doesn't seem like a good thing to eat food that has chemicals and all sorts of additives in it does it? I want the REAL thing! The only food weakness I have is sugar, and that mostly means chocolate products. I am SO hooked on chocolate and think that if I quit, my triglycerides would go from the current 143 to way under 100!

    Marilyn :)
  14. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    DebraBee - I take chromium daily. I eat whole oats, which are supposed to lower cholesterol, every morning.

    Marilyn -Extra sharp cheddar for me too! I just ate a piece and think I'll keep it up! Gotta have some fun. Unfortunately, artery size has nothing to do with the size of your frame...I am large framed but have very small arteries. I also have overdeveloped muscles and have always exercised, so I thought I didn't have to worry about osteoporosis either, but the large amts. of cortisol that we FMSers put out due to the constant hypervigilance of our nervous systems can cause it all by itself, and I got a big surprise when I had my first bone density test. My spine is 120% as dense as a normal 20 yr. old's, and that's what I expected to see everywhere, but my femoral neck is osteopenic, the precurser stage of osteoporosis. Now that I have gone off estrogen due to the weight gain it caused, I may get osteoporosis of the hip. This DD messes up everything.

    Susan - HDL is good and should be over 35 in men, and over 55 in women. Low HDL is the most important predictor of heart disease in women. LDL is the bad cholesterol and should not be more than 130. It should be under 100 if you've had heart trouble already. If I could switch my LDL with my HDL, then I'd be doing good, instead of in danger. The diet helps my fatigue a lot. It has no affect on pain. For carbs I eat 1/4 cup oatmeal in the morning with blueberries on it, and I eat an apple in the evening with plain yogurt to balance it, and I may eat a small amt. of fruit at lunch, but always balanced with protein. I eat no pasta, bread, potatoes, rice, carrots, corn, beets,juices, jams or sugars of any kind.

    Karen - It seems your risks are as high as mine. Maybe you should see a Cardiologist and work out a battle plan. Maybe you can take the drugs that lower cholesterol...I can't tolerate any of them. You may want to talk to Mikie about the calcium and phosphorous in your urine....the guai protocol may help you with that, I believe. Marilyn is right that eating whole, natural food will make you feel so much better. The general rule is to shop the outer rim of the grocery store and avoid the inner aisles where all the fake foods are.

    Kim - diet affects me the exact opposite of you. Nothing has ever budged my low HDL, but eating low fat kept my LDL normal. Unfortunately, in order to eat very low fat, I had to eat a high carb diet, which sent my triglycerides up as high as 489 at one point. It's a Catch-22 and it sucks.

    Mikie- did you notice in Karen's post where she says she is spilling calcium and phosphorous in her urine? Isn't this part of Dr. St. Armand's theory, that we do this when there is no place else to deposit the calcium or something? Can you advise her?

    Hope I answered all who wrote. Thanks for your input.
    Klutzo

    [This Message was Edited on 12/11/2002]
  15. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    "It's Worth It to See a Specialist". I think I now know the reason why my cholesterol is so bad, in spite of my doing everything right!
    Klutzo
  16. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    Okay--I'll be the first to admit my math suxs....
    Here's the test results you asked about Marilyn

    Cholesterol 179
    Triglyceride 205
    HDL CHOLESTEROL 23
    C. LDL. CHOLESTEROL 115
    Cholesterol/HDL 7.78
    LDL/HDL 5.00

    Karen
  17. kadywill

    kadywill New Member

    "Suzanne Somers' Eat Great, Lose Weight" book and I hope this helps me. However, after trying many conventional physician ordered low fat diets, my dangerous lipid results never improved. It was determined that my problem was genetic. Two months ago my cholesterol, total, was 465 and my Triglycerides were also 465. My HDL was 33 and my VLDL and LDL couldn't even be determined because my Triglyceride level was so high! I reluctantly started taking Lescol XL. A month later, my total cholesterol was 211, my triglycerides were 119 and my HDL was 43 and my LDL was 144.....how about those cholesterol and triglyceride levels???? I was amazed after only a month....that means my stroke risk ratio went from 14.0 to 2.7!!!!!! Pretty good considering that ALL of my relatives have died from heart disease/stroke and all at the age of 65 or younger!!!
    Maybe I won't be one of them now. So, I want to get into this diet, too, because of my diabetes risk. I eat way too many carbs and I know it. I just love them...all carbs! I am not a veggie lover and meat is just so-so for me. So, I pray this will work for me.
    Love,
    Kady
  18. toots2

    toots2 New Member

    I love the subject matter and the posts are inspiring. A good topic for discussion and hope we can keep it up through the winter. I have high cholesterol levels too and have tried the low carb eating and failed. I started again last week but find it very difficult to think of things to eat. A great thing about this diet, you don't get hungary if you stay on it. I feel better too knowing how sugar, white stuff and dairy bog me down. Good luck to all of us in our endeavor to get healhy in spite of our symptoms. I find it difficult to eat right when I'm tired, but on those days when I am I try to get outside for a walk to get me rejuvenated again. Toots
  19. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    I got that information on body size from an MD. He said small, petite women are very difficult to perform heart surgery on due to their small vein size, (and because of that, they have a higher chance of not surviving surgery,) and that large women would naturally have larger veins. This makes sense to me! It would be diffucult for my mother's teeny veins, she's 5'2" and 95 lbs, to work in my body...I am 5'7" and average 145 lbs. I'm not a small girl by no means!

    Marilyn :)
  20. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    Nope, your math is just fine! You're right, you are in the high risk group. Do you eat alot of sweets? That alone will raise your triglycerides. I eat too much sugar, but my triglycerides are acceptable. I am going to stop ALL sugar after the holidays and see if they'll plunge....along with this extra TWENTY lbs I've packed on over the last year.

    Marilyn :)

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