Homeopathy is not a "scam": Clinical studies...

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by dannybex, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    Here are just some of the studies that have proven homeopathic can have an effect if prescribed properly. And some of these studies involve ANIMALS, so there is no possibility of a placebo effect.

    Keep an open mind...it may just help you. If it doesn't, or you aren't interested, then at least allow others to make up their own minds.

    Homeopathic medicine is now being used to treat serious illnesses, such as cancer:

    Dynamized Preparations in Cell Culture
    Ellanzhiyil Surendran Sunila, Ramadasan Kuttan, Korengath Chandran Preethi and Girija Kuttan

    Although reports on the efficacy of homeopathic medicines in animal models are limited, there are even fewer reports on the in vitro action of these dynamized preparations. We have evaluated the cytotoxic activity of 30C and 200C potencies of ten dynamized medicines against Dalton's Lymphoma Ascites, Ehrlich's Ascites Carcinoma, lung fibroblast (L929) and Chinese Hamster Ovary (CHO) cell lines and compared activity with their mother tinctures during short-term and long-term cell culture. The effect of dynamized medicines to induce apoptosis was also evaluated and we studied how dynamized medicines affected genes expressed during apoptosis.

    Mother tinctures as well as some dynamized medicines showed significant cytotoxicity to cells during short and long-term incubation. Potentiated alcohol control did not produce any cytotoxicity at concentrations studied. The dynamized medicines were found to inhibit CHO cell colony formation and thymidine uptake in L929 cells and those of Thuja, Hydrastis and Carcinosinum were found to induce apoptosis in DLA cells. Moreover, dynamized Carcinosinum was found to induce the expression of p53 while dynamized Thuja produced characteristic laddering pattern in agarose gel electrophoresis of DNA. These results indicate that dynamized medicines possess cytotoxic as well as apoptosis-inducing properties.

    http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/cont ... 2/257?etoc

    Integr Cancer Ther. 2006 Dec;5(4):343-9. Links
    Can homeopathic treatment slow prostate cancer growth?

    Jonas WB, Gaddipati JP, Rajeshkumar NV, Sharma A, Thangapazham RL, Warren J, Singh AK, Ives JA, Olsen C, Mog SR, Maheshwari RK.
    Samueli Institute, 1700 Diagonal Road, Suite 400, Alexandria, VA 22314, USA.

    BACKGROUND: Homeopathy is a complementary medicine widely used around the world. Despite extensive use of homeopathy for cancer and other serious conditions with reported success, clinical and laboratory research has been equivocal, and no rigorous research has been done on cancer. In 1999, the US National Cancer Institute evaluated the effects of homeopathic treatment of cancer from a clinic in India and has released a request for protocols to conduct further research into this treatment. Therefore, the authors conducted a series of carefully controlled laboratory studies evaluating the effects of commonly used homeopathic remedies in cell and animal models of prostate cancer.

    STUDY DESIGN: One hundred male Copenhagen rats were randomly assigned to either treatment or control groups after inoculation with prostate tumor cells.

    METHODS: Prostate tumor cells DU-145, LNCaP, and MAT-LyLu were exposed to 5 homeopathic remedies. Male Copenhagen rats were injected with MAT-LyLu cells and exposed to the same homeopathic remedies for 5 weeks. In vitro outcomes included tumor cell viability and apoptosis gene expression. In vivo outcomes included tumor incidence, volume, weight, total mortality, proliferating cell nuclear antigen (PCNA) expression, apoptotic cell death (terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase mediated d-uridine triphosphate nick end labeling), and gene expression (rAPO-multiprobe). RESULTS: There were no effects on cell viability or gene expression in 3 prostate cell lines with any remedies at any exposure time. There was a 23% reduction in tumor incidence (P < .0001), and for animals with tumors, there was a 38% reduction in tumor volume in homeopathy-treated animals versus controls (P < .02). At time of killing, experimental animals with tumors had a 13% lower average tumor weight (P < .05). Tumors in these treated animals showed a 19% increase in apoptotic cell death (P < .05) and reduced PCNA-positive cells.

    CONCLUSIONS: The findings indicate that selected homeopathic remedies for the present study have no direct cellular anticancer effects but appear to significantly slow the progression of cancer and reduce cancer incidence and mortality in Copenhagen rats injected with MAT-LyLu prostate cancer cells.

    Ruta 6 selectively induces cell death in brain cancer cells but
    proliferation in normal peripheral blood lymphocytes:

    A novel treatment for human brain cancer

    Departments of 1Cancer Biology and 2Laboratory Medicine, The University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center,
    Houston, TX 77030, USA; 3PBH Research Foundation, 10/3/1 Elgin Road, Kolkata 700 020, West Bengal, India


    BMC Public Health. 2008 Dec 17;8:413. Links
    How healthy are chronically ill patients after eight years of homeopathic treatment?--Results from a long term observational study.

    Witt CM, Lüdtke R, Mengler N, Willich SN.
    Institute for Social Medicine, Epidemiology and Health Economics, Charité University Medical Center, D-10098 Berlin, Germany. claudia.witt@charite.de

    BACKGROUND: Homeopathy is a highly debated but often used medical treatment. With this cohort study we aimed to evaluate health status changes under homeopathic treatment in routine care. Here we extend former results, now presenting data of an 8-year follow-up. METHODS: In a prospective, multicentre cohort study with 103 homeopathic primary care practices in Germany and Switzerland, data from all patients (age >1 year) consulting the physician for the first time were observed. The main outcome measures were: The patients' perceived change in complaint severity (numeric rating scales from 0 = no complaint to 10 = maximal severity) and quality of life as measured by the SF-36 at baseline, and after 2 and 8 years.

    RESULTS: A total of 3,709 patients were studied, 73% (2,722 adults, 72.8% female, age at baseline 41.0 +/- 12.3; 819 children, 48.4% female, age 6.5 +/- 4.0) contributed data to the 8-year follow-up. The most frequent diagnoses were allergic rhinitis and headache in adults, and atopic dermatitis and multiple recurrent infections in children. Disease severity decreased significantly (p < 0.001) between baseline, 2 and 8 years (adults from 6.2 +/- 1.7 to 2.9 +/- 2.2 and 2.7 +/- 2.1; children from 6.1 +/- 1.8 to 2.1 +/- 2.0 and 1.7 +/- 1.9). Physical and mental quality of life sores also increased considerably. Younger age, female gender and more severe disease at baseline were factors predictive of better therapeutic success.

    CONCLUSION: Patients who seek homeopathic treatment are likely to improve considerably. These effects persist for as long as 8 years.

    Integr Cancer Ther. 2006 Dec;5(4):362-72. Links
    Effects of homeopathic preparations on human prostate cancer growth in cellular and animal models.

    MacLaughlin BW, Gutsmuths B, Pretner E, Jonas WB, Ives J, Kulawardane DV, Amri H.
    Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Georgetown University Medical Center, Washington, DC 20007, USA.

    The use of dietary supplements for various ailments enjoys unprecedented popularity. As part of this trend, Sabal serrulata (saw palmetto) constitutes the complementary treatment of choice with regard to prostate health. In homeopathy, Sabal serrulata is commonly prescribed for prostate problems ranging from benign prostatic hyperplasia to prostate cancer. The authors' work assessed the antiproliferative effects of homeopathic preparations of Sabal serrulata, Thuja occidentalis, and Conium maculatum, in vivo, on nude mouse xenografts, and in vitro, on PC-3 and DU-145 human prostate cancer as well as MDA-MB-231 human breast cancer cell lines. Treatment with Sabal serrulata in vitro resulted in a 33% decrease of PC-3 cell proliferation at 72 hours and a 23% reduction of DU-145 cell proliferation at 24 hours (P<.01). The difference in reduction is likely due to the specific doubling time of each cell line. No effect was observed on MDA-MB-231 human breast cancer cells. Thuja occidentalis and Conium maculatum did not have any effect on human prostate cancer cell proliferation. In vivo, prostate tumor xenograft size was significantly reduced in Sabal serrulata-treated mice compared to untreated controls (P=.012). No effect was observed on breast tumor growth.

    Our study clearly demonstrates a biologic response to homeopathic treatment as manifested by cell proliferation and tumor growth. This biologic effect was (i)significantly stronger to Sabal serrulata than to controls and (ii)specific to human prostate cancer. Sabal serrulata should thus be further investigated as a specific homeopathic remedy for prostate pathology.

    I hope this is helpful,

  2. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    How about moving this to the "alternaive board"?

  3. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    The reason I thought it should be moved is that it is just going to end up in a big quarrel. We have debated this topic over and over.

    Otherwise it might look like instigating another "debate", whereas on the other board people won't have this topic pushed in their face.

    Just my opinion. Whatever.

  4. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    I kind of understand what you're saying, but at the same time, the 'debate' would probably happen over on the other board if it was moved.

    And hopefully it will not happen here. The merits of the studies mentioned above speak for themselves.

    And if one can find a homeopath with many years of experience, they MAY be able to find some benefit from the remedy or remedies chosen for them.


  5. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    Yes, the evidence does speak for itself.

    It does not work.

    I suppose the next topic we debate can be wether gravity exists. :)

  6. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    Effects of homeopathic medications Eupatorium perfoliatum and Arsenicum album on parasitemia of Plasmodium berghei-infected mice.

    Lira-Salazar G, Marines-Montiel E, Torres-Monzón J, Hernández-Hernández F, Salas-Benito JS.
    Especialización en Terapéutica Homeopática, Mexico.

    Malaria is one of the most important parasitic diseases in the world and a major public health problem because of emerging drug-resistant strains of Plasmodium. A number of synthetic and natural compounds are now being analysed to develop more effective antimalarial drugs.

    We investigated the effect of homeopathic preparations of Eupatorium perfoliatum and Arsenicum album on parasitemia using a rodent malaria model. We found significant inhibitory effect on parasite multiplication with both medications with a level of 60% for Eupatorium perfoliatum at a 30 CH potency. Arsenicum album 0/6 gave 70% inhibition but this was less stable than Eupatorium perfoliatum. The number of schizonts was higher in animals treated with homeopathic medications. Although the mechanism of action is unknown, these agents would be good candidates as alternative or complementary medications in the treatment of malaria.

    PMID: 17015193
  7. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    If people want to choose homeopathy, that is your choice.

    However, the bottom line for me is that there are unscrupulous people tauting that homeopathy will treat seasonal/swine flu and can replace vaccinations.

    We are talking about children. Children who do not have a choice. Children who may die because of this unproven treatment.

  8. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    A Major Victory for Reason


    Written by Brandon K Thorp

    Sunday, 23 August 2009 00:00

    The World Health Organization [WHO] has responded to a call from young medics and said that it DOES NOT recommend the use of homeopathy for treating HIV, TB, malaria, influenza and infant diarrhea. In an open letter to the WHO in June of this year, the group of early career medics and researchers from the UK and Africa asked the body to make clear that homeopathy cannot prevent or treat these serious diseases despite its growing promotion by manufacturers and practitioners. The Director General's office has confirmed that the responses from WHO departments (below) "clearly express the WHO's position." Today the Voice of Young Science [VYS] network, who coordinated the letter, has written to the health ministers of all countries to publicise the WHO's position, asking them to combat the promotion of homeopathy for these dangerous diseases.

    In one way, it's remarkable that statements like these need to be made. As one of the scientists associated with VYS pointed out, it's one thing for homeopaths to go after gullible people on Park Avenue with a case of the sniffles. Repugnant, sure, but at least they're not interfering with the medical treatment of dying children in developing nations. That's a whole other kind of bad, and massive kudos are due to the brave young brains of VYS for recognizing an outrage when they see one.

    But how could they not? Many of the VYS scientists are entrenched in those developing nations, doing their damndest to help people while dealing with those superstitions already extant in the populace. They do not need the added distractions of homeopaths pushing their wares and worldviews, promising miracle cures with no ill effects. Unlike in the United States or Europe, where even skeptics can afford to regard alternative "medicine" and fringe scientists as semi-urgent problems, bad science in the developing world can result in disasters of world-historic scope.

    Comments from the WHO:

    Dr Mario Raviglione, Director, Stop TB Department, WHO:

    "Our evidence-based WHO TB treatment/management guidelines, as well as the International Standards of Tuberculosis Care (ISTC) do not recommend use of homeopathy."

    Dr Mukund Uplekar, TB Strategy and Health Systems, WHO:

    "WHO's evidence-based guidelines on treatment of tuberculosis...have no place for homeopathic medicines."

    Dr Teguest Guerma, Director Ad Interim, HIV/AIDS Department, WHO:

    "The WHO Dept. of HIV/AIDS invests considerable human and financial resources [... ] to ensure access to evidence-based medical information and to clinically proven, efficacious, and safe treatment for HIV... Let me end by congratulating the young clinicians and researchers of Sense About Science for their efforts to ensure evidence-based approaches to treating and caring for people living with HIV."

    Dr Sergio Spinaci, Associate Director, Global Malaria Programme, WHO:

    "Thanks for the amazing documentation and for whistle blowing on this issue... The Global Malaria programme recommends that malaria is treated following the WHO Guidelines for the Treatment of Malaria".

    Joe Martines, on behalf of Dr Elizabeth Mason, Director, Department of Child and Adolescent Health and Development, WHO:

    "We have found no evidence to date that homeopathy would bring any benefit to the treatment of diarrhoea in children...Homeopathy does not focus on the treatment and prevention of dehydration - in total contradiction with the scientific basis and our recommendations for the management of diarrhoea."

  9. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    it would be just as possible to make a list like this for people who have been treated by conventional medicine and died as a result.....more and more conventional "cures" are being shown to cause the very things they are supposed to treat and/ or to cause all sorts of other long term and/or permanent problems (and that's not even including all the side effects)

    also many of the people in the list would have quite possibly died from their illnesses regardless of what kind of treatment they pursued

    this is not to say that I am opposed to all conventional medicine, or to say that I am for all alt medicine....just that many of the arguments that are used (on either side) can just as easily be used for or against conventional treatments and for or against alt treatments
  10. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    ...that you clearly haven't read the studies above that show that homeopathy shows benefits.

    [This Message was Edited on 08/27/2009]
  11. bakeman

    bakeman New Member

    I'm just waiting to see the word quantum brought into this debate. who's it going to be?
  12. karynwolfe

    karynwolfe New Member

    I think when some people refer to "homeopathy" they refer to the thing where the main ingredient is diluted and diluted until it has no real strength, and also so that the producers can sell more of it without expending much cash on making it properly. Then buyers don't get the health benefits, they just end up spending tons of money for no reason... A child could see that's wrong.

    But I agree with you, Dan, that the main ingredient in various herbs can and is used to treat medical conditions. =) A quick search of olive leaf extract on pubmed.gov gives some great articles on how it kills viruses and bacteria, and even how it is more stable and has a longer half-life in people who take it with food versus people who take it without. Various things work, and are scientifically proven; people just have to know how to do their research and how to apply it to their particular medical condition, if pharmaceuticals are not the best option. It'd be great if more doctors realized this, too!

    Edit: OH! And since ProHealth is a big supplier of these herbs and supplements, I'm not sure the posts that just outright BLAST the use of them are going to last very long, haha[This Message was Edited on 08/27/2009]
  13. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I think ProHealth is more open minded than you give them credit for.

    Some of the supplements such as iron, B12, Vitamin D etc. are now considered mainstream

  14. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    We'll just have to agree to disagree. :)

    Yes, I and many others are angry and frustrated at times, just so frustrating, because it seems like there are about three people who are committed to denigrating anything that they don't happen to understand have studied, so then it's "methodically flawed" or the studies "have not been reproduced in any matter", or some other excuse...and that apparently negates any benefit that HAS been shown in these studies.

    I'm sorry if my posts upset you, but I guess you didn't read too many of them because I've posted very positive suggestions on other threads -- about digestion, about meditation, etc. -- in hopes they would be helpful. Also, I don't see where any of my posts in this thread have been negative...or 'angry'. If so, I'm sorry...I'm trying to be respectful.

    And yes, I did edit my post, because I want to be as polite and respectful as possible if I disagree with things others viewpoints. Plus, I'd like to keep this thread from being deleted, because believe it or not, double blind studies or not, homeopathy has saved people's lives.

    The Royal Family have had homeopaths as their primary physicians since Queen Victoria's time, and for the most part, all have lived long lives. The Queen Mother was 101 when she died. And homeopathy wasn't the cause of death.

    It should also be pointed out that I took out my mention of the fact that TYLENOL kills over 400 people EVERY year, plus puts thousands in the hospital because of the liver damage it causes. Yet while homeopathy is vilified here (by some) the high death rates from an over the counter drug are never mentioned...why that wouldn't make anyone justifiably angry is beyond me. ???

    But everyone is free to choose their path towards health, and this board should reflect that freedom of choice and also polite, respectful freedom of speech.

    Can we at least agree on that? :)


    [This Message was Edited on 08/27/2009]
  15. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    Once again, lots of great info and out comes that lynch mob. Of course they are here to protect the rest of us STUPID people from reading your info and running out and getting a Homeopathic remedy...and subsequently killing ourselves. Much appreciated cause I cant think for myself...

    I think it was David that is using Homeopathics in Germany for his HHV6. They are prescription there and are serious stuff. Im trying to find some one here that really knows what they are doing. I think they can be a major piece of the puzzle when you get the right rememdies.

    Maybe I need to see a vet...

  16. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    Thanks for your reply. I'm glad we agree on at least a couple of things.

    But I don't think you're "totally ignorant" when it comes to homeopathy. You (and many others of course) seem to not understand how it works, nor want to, so that's your choice. Your point of view (which you're of course entitled to) is clearly biased by your allopathic standards as evidenced in your second paragraph, which just don't apply when dealing with a completely different approach to healing.

    Homeopathic remedies -- when chosen by an experienced homeopath -- are not placebos. That's your (and other's) opinion, not a fact. One dose of a particular remedy has very different effects on an individual than a different remedy would. Completely different. But we'll never agree. I could tell you of the changes I've experienced many years ago, and the recent dramatic changes I've noticed in friends, but I'm guessing that you would probably attribute that to the placebo effect, instead of saying "that's great". If you want to look at case histories, you could check out one of the many homeopathic websites.

    In fact, here's a list of case histories on just one site:


    However, please don't say you're not denigrating homeopathy in one sentence and then call it "quacky stuff" in the same post.

    Take care...and have fun with the thread. I'm off to more productive use of my time, and wish all of you the best. I really do!

  17. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    Maybe it would be good for people who want to post about homeopathics, or any of the subjects that the lynch mob hates, it would be a good idea to just post it as "interesting info about..." Maybe if the word scam is left out it would be helpful. That MIGHT prevent all the useless need to argue.

    People who are interested could read about the topic and those who are not, and even those who dont agree could move along. Wouldnt that be refreshing! Us sick people are all good at working the Google search and we can come to own conclusions from there. Seriously, why not?

    I come to this board for info and sometimes just cant help but get caught up in whatever it is going on here... whatever it is, it certainly is NOT constructive!

    Im really trying to find a good Homeopathic doctor. Anyone know of any good ones in Florida?

    Dan, I just saw the link you posted. Thank you so much!


    [This Message was Edited on 08/28/2009]
  18. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    "I don't think anybody on this board is stupid. It is not my fault I have the education I do which gives me a greater understanding of how the body works, physiology, pharmacologic actions, biochemistry etc. I will not apologize for that."

    WOW! You are very smart indeed!

    I think we all agree that a laugh is healthy, so THANKS!!

  19. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    I am being rude and sarcastic cause it is ridiculous!!! It happens here all of the time and I dont understand it. Yes, my participating is just as ridiculous. I just have been looking into and starting some Homeopathic remedies and was interested in the thread. Of course the thread and the info posted by Dan was overwhelmed by the needless arguing.

    Most of us that have been sick for a very long time have researched this thing to death. I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge. We were all FORCED to get our personal PhD in health and the workings of the human body. You certainly dont know more than anyone else, sorry.
    Now, I can see if some one came on here and really knew nothing and you were trying to help...but you arent. You are sick and bored and you want to argue. I am guilty now as well.
    There are a few out there (and you are one) that do it ALL of the time though.

    How can this board turn around if people dont put their ego's aside and try to learn from each other? We are never all going to agree. There is a big difference between being constructive with your input and just plain trying to prove some one wrong. If I read a post about horse manure being the latest cure, I am not gonna find 20 articles about how bad horse manure is and try to argue my manure point. Im not worried that the masses will go out and consume manure so it is my duty to warn. I will just move on with a smile. Now, if I had a personal bad reaction to the manure treatment, I might feel the need to mention that. That seems constructive enough to me.

    It sucks to be sick. Its too bad that our lives have come down to this. Here we are on a message board arguing when all we really want is our lives back!!!

    Im on to more constructive things as well...like a nap :(


    Thanks Jammin. I am afraid to start a new post and mention the "H" word, but I will continue to search. I have started some remedies but I dont feel my practitioner is as skilled as I would like.

    [This Message was Edited on 08/28/2009]
  20. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    Funny, I was just told to try Grape seed extract AGAIN by a friend. Now, understand that I know alot about alternative and been doing nothing but that for 27 years and it kept me going. Only house bound since I started anti virals and antibiotics...UGH! I have always found Grape seed extract boring. BUT, it keeps coming up! When I just read your last post, I thought about it and remembered that you are the one with the great success with the Grape seed extract. I dont expect it to cure me, but I have a very low immune system. . Maybe I need to check into that again... (then nap)

    I will go to the ABC board. Not sure why there is a separate board here now for "alternative" but I will go there as well. So is this just an Allopathic board? I cant keep up.

    Anyways, thanks for all of your good info.