How about a "spirited thread" ?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by BILLCAMO, Feb 11, 2009.


    BILLCAMO New Member

    I'm asking for opinions and ideas so that I can help a friend. This thread could get "heated" , but , I don't think it breaks any rules here.

    My friend has had a great insight on how to reduce the world's need for petroleum based fuels. It would utilize existing technology that is already in use. It would create no pollution. Even if the price of gas fell below 75 cents a gallon it would still be a viable option.

    He doesn't have the resources to do a patent search and file for one. I don't have the resources to help him do it either. The idea is so simple that it MAY have been thought of before , patented , and "buried".

    I agree with him that the "petroleum industry" will go to extreme lengths to protect their interests.........

    Fairly recently , he has offered to share his knowledge with both the "Pickens Plan" and President Obama's team with no expectation of compensation. He is an "Obscure American" that would greatly prefer to remain that way. He is a modest individual that doesn't want to become "famous". He has received no viable replies. In fact , the Obama team has not replied at all.

    He has shared this approach with me. I immediately knew it would work and checked it out with a couple scientist friends of mine I could trust. My trust has not been violated and I will not violate his.

    Because of the current global economy , ecology , and , specifically , the current state of America , he has decided to move away from taking his previous approach of ".....taking his knowledge to his grave......" He , and I , do love our country. And our country , thereby us , are in deep trouble. .....Both economically and ecologically.....

    Yes , I do kid around a lot......but....this is not an example of my kidding !

    This is real.

    Input from my family and friends here will be appreciated ! So , please put on your thinking caps and/or share some knowledge and ideas.

    Thank you !

    Blessings ,

  2. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    Remember -- the title of my response is "Devil's Advocate here".

    Why not just put it on YouTube?

    If the idea is to spread the idea, not become famous or wealthy, why not take it directly to 'the people'?

    [For the general idea, although much more dramatic, see 1997's "The Saint"...]

    [This Message was Edited on 02/11/2009]
  3. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Bill,

    I've long been interested in alternative technologies for abundant clean energy. Was wondering if you've ever seen the following youtube video called burning saltwater:

    I'm not quite sure what you're asking for in your post. Would love to participate if I could get a little clearer idea.

    Best, Wayne
  4. therealmadscientist

    therealmadscientist New Member

    However, there are some catalyists being investigated that may greatly increase the ease of separation of water into hydrogen and oxygen.
    Also, plants have around a 95% efficiency in converting sunlight to panels are doing very good to have a 15% a lot of room for improvement.

    Anyway, a very good book is "Patent it yourself" by David Pressman. It also explores other avenues to bring ideas to the market place other than just patents.

    I think that now there may be some internet patent search sites. Whether or not he discovers his particular idea, just reading similar type patents can be very helpful to developing an invention. A library in Sunnyvale CA used to have patents filed/stacked by subject and was a fun place to intellectually wander about.

    Wishing the best of luck, your mr Bill

    [This Message was Edited on 02/12/2009]
  5. justjanelle

    justjanelle New Member

    Here's a link to the US Patent Office, which has a handy online search feature your friend might be able to use:

    Google also has a patent search that I actually like better. Here's their link:

    The "Patent It Yourself" book is very good and is available at a lot of libraries. Or you might check for used copies on Amazon.

    Good luck!


    BILLCAMO New Member

    helping a friend can be challenging. I met him back in the late 1970's when I was promoting alcohol fuels and other alternative energies. We became friends. He does not have or use a computer. He has health issues of his own.

    Just as myself , he has had other good ideas that he has shared with other people and they have taken them sharing nothing with him. He would like some of the credit , but , he does not want to become famous. He doesn't want to be like "Joe the Plumber". If some of the large amounts of money that would be made found its way back to him , he could use it.

    One of the things he has done was build a working prototype of another ground vehicle , and did patent it , it did not use petroleum products. He swears he had to sell it for next to nothing and the promise his family would not be hurt. From what I saw and experienced in the 70's while I was promoting alternatives , I believe his story is true.

    Since it is his idea , I feel I must run the options by him for his decision. It is my choice not to treat him as he and I have both have been treated in the past. I will not violate his trust.

    As far as the U-Tube suggestion , it is his feeling .....and I agree..... to give the idea there would not be giving Americans the 1st crack at using this idea. Granted , it will be copied once released. But , we both love our country. And the net is international.

    After his experience with patent(s) previously , he doesn't have any faith in that option. So , he's against that...

    His 1st choice is to share or give this idea with Mr. Pickens , but , I haven't figured out a way to break through the layers of "protection". I'm also not sure if he would be "open-minded" since he has a petroleum background. Maybe Repower America could be an option ?

    So , if you all would share ideas , I'll give them to him for his perusal...


    Blessings ,



    BILLCAMO New Member

    with this is a large concern. Right now he is thinking of how to find someone within the Pickens Plan or Repower America he can trust. He's also not sure of which one would be best or if there is another organization that would be good.

    Here's some facts that many people are not aware that exist :

    Patent searches by internet or directly at a patent office are often monitored. Past requests for info can also be checked out.

    Oil companies are not the only ones who don't want alternative energy sources to be used. Our government also has a vested interest. For example , I learned while I was promoting alcohol fuels that our goverment supported it on the surface , but , not behind the scenes.

    The reason being that if individuals produced fuel grade alcohol at home they would lose a bunch of fuel tax revenue. A vehicle can run on as low as 140 proof. The 200 proof necessary for gasohol products can be taxed since it must be made in bigger facilties with much more complex equipment.

    Fear is also a factor. In 1978 a farmer invited me to his farm to show me his solar operated still. It was an efficient workable still that produced fuel grade alcohol. He did have it patented. Shortly after he gave me his tour , he and his wife disappeared. Everything was left at the farm except them , the plans , the patent , and the actual still. To this day not even the family knows what happened to them.

    This happened shortly he refused to sell out for what turned out to be the last offer. He had previously been contacted by both governmental entities and people that were connected to the petroleum industry.

    IMHO , my friend is jusifiably concerned. His approach would be virtually impossible to tax and greatly reduce our needs for petroleum usage. And many Americans could make their own vehicles using his ideas.

    Wayne , I watched the video about using salwater for fuel. Very interesting ! If it turns out to be cost effective , it could be taxed and the power companies could make money off of the equipment needed to make it work.

    Cate , I'll forward your idea to him. The biggest problem still remains in finding someone he can actually trust.

    mr Bill & jj , I'll go to the library and check out the may give me some ideas that I can share with him.

    Thanks so far.

    Blessings ,

    [<i>This Message was Edited on 02/14/2009</i>]
    [<i>This Message was Edited on 02/14/2009</i>]
    [This Message was Edited on 02/14/2009]
  8. justlooking

    justlooking New Member

    Hi Bill,
    I have a friend who is an inventor and a genius. Anyway, I once had an idea that both he and I considered moving forward on (we never did).

    Anyway, he said the very first thing a person should do when they come up with an idea is to write the idea down, have a witness or two sign it OR get it notarized, then mail it to yourself via CERTIFIED MAIL but don't open the envelope once you receive it. Then if someone steals your idea while you're discussing it with others, you have proof it was your idea. By sending it Certified Mail, it is date stamped by the Post Office, which if someone must prove it was their idea first, this will provide dated proof.

    Next, getting a patent isn't necessarily expensive, it's the cost of manufacturing your product or writing the plan for the idea with experts in the field that is the expensive part. However, if he is scientific enough to write his own plan and/or can find a "financial investor" to back his plan, the cost could be minimal for himself.

    Again, it sounds as though the difficulty he is having is finding an audience to listen to his ideas. As for T. Boone Pickens I think he is financially invested in Cheasepeake Natural Gas Company, which is why he is pushing so hard for his plan to be used. He may be unwilling to discuss plans which deviate from his financial interest.
    As for getting Obama's team to listen may be very difficult as I am sure they get many ideas for many different programs sent to them and most likely very few make it past his "screeners". It is probably a better idea to try to get the idea to a Senate or Congress member. The idea could then be put to the Government through an Energy Bill.

    Since I am not an expert in this, my advice may be outdated since my own idea and conversations occurred back around 2000. But I hope it may be os some help anyway.
  9. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    My sister did the registered letter to herself. This was recommended by her lawyer.

    She had a column in a local paper which was very unique and also wanted to preserve the name of the column.

    It may be a start as far as determining that your friend was the first person to think of the idea.

    BTW, my son in law is studying engineering and specializing in alternative energy resources.

    [This Message was Edited on 02/15/2009]

    BILLCAMO New Member

    Thanks to all for all of your help so far !

    I think he is going to go with the certified letter approach.

    He's not very fond of going to Mr. Pickens because of his connections with oil and natural gas.

    He's also a bit concerned about Repower America since Al Gore is heavily involved.

    Last night I presented the idea of possibly of talking with some close family friends of mine. There are 7 brothers in the family and we grew up together. Some of the brothers have "connections". They have always been hard working and honest. 4 of them still live here.

    Gap , it's too bad that your son in law doesn't live closer to me. I'd love to talk with someone who is studying alternative energy resources ! If I wasn't too foggy , I think we could have some very interesting discussions.

    Privately , I have been asked why I remain involved with this project. There are lots of reasons. The main one being is that he has promised me that he would insist that donations be made to research orgs. for our DDs and ones related to ours.

    Blessings ,

  11. justjanelle

    justjanelle New Member

    If your friend wants to discuss his invention/idea with anyone else at all, he should have them sign a non-disclosure agreement before doing so. This will be their acknowledgement that the idea was his not theirs, and also prevent them from talking to others about it without his explicit permission. This is an important step for him to take in order to protect any future patent rights (in case he decides to go ahead with a patent, or -- more likely -- whoever he convinces to go ahead with production wants the protection of a patent)

    Without the nondisclosure agreements in place, any of the people with whom he discusses or to whom he describes the invention/product/process could spread the word on their own or even patent it themselves, and your friend would get nothing for his effort -- not even credit.

    If you Google "nondisclosure agreement" you can find several samples online. He should prepare 2 copies for each person who's hearing about the invention, and they and the inventor both sign each copy. Then the inventor keeps one copy in his records and the person hearing the information can keep the other.

    Best wishes,

    PS. While you're Googling, please check "Poor Man's Patent", which is the name for the mail-it-to-yourself technique. It turns out that this doesn't actually provide any protection of the intellectual property rights. That's a myth. I'd hate for your friend to rely on this and then later learn it was no good.

    [This Message was Edited on 02/16/2009]

    BILLCAMO New Member

    Oh well , back to the drawing board......or is that an invention :>)

    If he can can make up his mind on who to approach and we can figure out a way to get their attention , the "nondisclosure agreement" appears the best way to go. But even that has some loopholes.....:>(

    Blessings ,