?hypercoagulation and dehydration

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by tansy, Jun 24, 2003.

  1. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Sujay and jellybean do you know if this problem also prevents water getting into the cells.

    I'm drinking so much but in this hot weather I feel like it's just going staight through me. Am using sea salt as well.

    Madwolf thinks reaction to heat is low cortisol which makes a lot of sense too. The heat causes shaking, feel like I'm going to pass out or throw up, daren't turn my head sideways because then I do pass out. Use a wheelchair so not even standing, but when more mobile I would lose consciousness. Told neurologist but he just shrugged his shoulders, does not accapt CFS etc.

    Years ago Dr David Dowson gave me vits in an IV saline solution. It felt like an almost instant tonic, too quick for it to be the vits. This would last for a couple of days. Feel like this is what I need now.


  2. sujay

    sujay New Member


    OK, Madwolf is probably onto something, but heat also increases coagulation (as do allergic reactions and a host of other stimuli in addition to stealth pathogens). It's like the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Hope you feel better soon, and get some relief from the heat.
  3. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Hi Tansy and Sujay,

    I have extreme heat intolerance, too, as well as significant dehydration..have to carry water with me at all times...I did not think that the opposite symptoms of Jelly having cold intolerance and whitish extremities fit my picture at all.. Are these clinical symptoms of HYPERCOAGULATION?


  4. sujay

    sujay New Member

    Hi there,

    I wish we had more answers. Sometimes we just have to remember that there's probably a lot of different things going on with these diseases. I'm focusing on hypercoagulation because I'm convinced that's one way to clearly improve health for many patients, but other physicians are helping patients with other approaches. (The e-mail bulletin that came out on this site today has a couple of really interesting articles, for exzample.) I'm just glad to see people taking this disease seriously and looking for answers, and grateful to this site for allowing us to put our heads together to consider these questions.

    Glad you've figured out some things that work for you. Thanks for all the sharing you've done. We look forward to your posts.

    Best wishes,


    P.S. Sorry for neglecting your question about hypercoagulation and heat intolerance. I often see problems with regulating heat such as you describe. It often seems to be associated with sleep cycle disturbance and sometimes with chemical sensitivity. I wonder if those are all controlled by centers in the brain that are poorly nourished because of the hypercoagulation. So many questions...so few answers, but let's keep working together![This Message was Edited on 06/25/2003]
  5. sujay

    sujay New Member

    Always glad to get your input. I generally end up with a big smile on my face whenever I hear from either one of you.

    Madwolf: did you get my message about Friday being OK?

    & Jelly: I do plan to get in touch with your doc, but with in'laws visiting I've not had much free time. I hope you enjoyed your vacation. Everything OK on your new antibiotic so far?

    Thank you, all
  6. Achy-shaky

    Achy-shaky New Member

    I've been wondering about same things...why I'm so thirty and why when I went to ER I was dehydrated when I drink more than the 10 glasses of day. Also when they drew my blood it was so thick nurse had to pump my arm to get it out. I just thought maybe I didn't drink enough water that day so the dehydration made my blood thick but Madwolf's explanation sure explains it all.

    Madwolf - please where do you get Tietlebaum's book? I have searched amazon and barnes&noble but don't find it.

    Thanks & bless you for being so helpful to us all.

  7. Jasmine

    Jasmine New Member

    Watercure (sea salt and water) have helped me feel much better with this heatwave going on. I used to feel very sick and dizzy on humid hot days and now I carry my water bottle with me everywhere in the car and I am much better. I have adrenal insufficiency so I am following Dr. Poesnecker's protocol and I take a cup of licorice soy milk first thing in the morning after my 7-keto DHEA and pregnenolone. The licorice gives me more energy and helps my neurally mediated hypotension.

    Hope you feel better, Tansy!

    Love, Jasmine
  8. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    I guess I should be tested, but the conventional doc tests don't often show Adrenal Insuffiency...so I decided to try out the Licorice, first, but had a paradoxical reaction when taking it, (became very drowsy)..However, last night I took another 500mg dose before bedtime, and I was not drowsy at all..this morning..so it may work for me to take late at night..

    Madwolf- How do you get a conventional doc to prescribe Cortef? Do you think that it is possible for the Licorice to be as effective? How long does it take to feel the results on both therapies? I am the one with the water bottle always attached to my person..I have constant and chronic thirst, even after drinking a gallon to l 1/2 gallons/day..but I have Sjogren's Syndrome, as well..I have also, started using the sea salt to see if that will help me retain some water..

    Thanks for any help and info,
    [This Message was Edited on 06/25/2003]
  9. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Why do you take licorice in the form of soy milk? I have just started taking Licorice 500mg capsules..however, made me very drowsy the first morning..So, I took at night, yesterday and don't have that drowsiness problem, today...

    I am starting with the sea salt, too...How much water do you need to drink/day?

  10. Manwithfibro

    Manwithfibro New Member

    I am thirsty alot and try to drink alot but it just goes right through me. I have a theory that we are chronically dehydrated even if we drink alot.

    Not sure why this happens. I have been tested for hypercoagulation and was negative.
  11. tansy

    tansy New Member

    I do drink and take salt but when I react to the heat the water just goes straight through me regardless. My parents were shocked yesterday by the amount I was having to drink then making so many trips to the toilet. Probably flushing my bladder and kidneys well but doing no good otherwise.

    Today I had to see my GP, it was hot again so she could see affect for herself. She can't access the necessary tests due to procedure here (NHS in UK) but she did arrange some that might indicate something, only if something comes up on them is she allowed to then arrange the ones I need.

    Cannot tolerate liquorice in any form which is a bit frustrating. Have taken B5 etc but that no longer seems to make a difference.

    Will probably end up having to pay for the saliva test, I gather it's expensive but now available in the UK.

    Regardless, I continue to drink lots of water and take my salt.


  12. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    i can not use the computer so much at the moment.

    I noticed you mention about saliva test in uk. You can get a reliable test done by NP Tech. if you want the addy i can look it up also i did put it on a post to Satin not long ago.
    i think it cost £40. which is a lot less than Great Smokies.
    i used to have a teerible problem with hot weather until i was very ill, i think its the thyroid , being underactive, but i now have more tolerance of hot weather. i also don't really sweat , ever. don't know what that means.
    i also drink loads and pee loads. i think madwolf is right about the link with the adrenals cos i have been carrying my bottle of water around since 1979 which is 1 year before my illness became noticeable.
    for years before it was trendy to drink bottled water i was always teased for going nowhere without my water........its the same so far, but i have noticed i am drinking less during the night . i was waking up 2 or 3 times to drink loads as well as the inevitable trip to the loo.
    i am sorry you are feeling ill with the heat. its much cooler here.......also i always wear a hat....

    take care
  13. tansy

    tansy New Member

    I couldn't remember where I saw it. My GP thinks it's a great idea. As she pointed out you need tests over 24 hours not just one moment in time. Saw her today in hot weather so no problem trying to explain it's effects, she could see them for herself.

    She was so great today spent about 40 minutes with me, well my brain was whirring around in circles. She'll refer me to anyone I want and back up anything she feels is safe. The latter was strongly emphasised due to what's happened in past. She's arranged a few basic tests but cannot go further through local hospital lab unless they indicate a problem. The saliva test should by pass all of that.

    It's so good that the cortisef and armour thyroid are working for you.



    [This Message was Edited on 06/25/2003]
  14. spartanjt

    spartanjt New Member

    Madwolf- What's the best way to check cortisol??

    I'm underweight and brain fogged, plus my temp is below normal,,,,maybe i need to look into this.....

    appreciate your reponse.

  15. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    Tansy, you have hit right on the cause of hypercoagulation - it`s Dehydration of the cells...

    I am about to start on a Diploma course to practice Holistic Nutrition, and in an introductory tape, they discuss how stress will cause Dehydration on the cellular level.

    To protect the cells - the body produces Cholestrol (Fibrin) to prevent them from losing fluid. - The cells communicate through water and would you believe light too. - It passes right through us and 60% of our energy is created with light & colour!

    Now the cells are coated with this protection they are effectively cut off,- great environment for stealth bacteria to thrive...

    Cholestrol as you know is a sticky guey gunk and so the cells start clumping together. - They can`t deliver the essential Oxygen and Nutrients to vital organs etc and so we develop further complications.

    In the daytime our cells have Calcium & Sodium, at night this is pulled out and replaced with Magnesium & Potassium.

    Having the Cholestrol coat, will prevent this free movement leaving them in a colder darker environment. Which as you`ve guessed will be the initial cause of CFS.

    It`s why I keep spouting off on varius posts about having high Antidioxant & Enzymes in drink, food & Supplements.

    Since embarking on this protocol I noticed my blood colour is a much brighter red now, which could help explain my continued increase in energy levels.

    We simply need to continually clean the blood with A & Es then hopefully the other symptoms will abate with time...

    I do hope you get some relief from your symptoms soon.

    Love Pat.

  16. tansy

    tansy New Member

    now that I've at last found some my GI tract will tolerate. Will go onto inflazyme forte or wobezyme when these start to run out and build those up. Sujay has already warned me that I need to go carefully. Also drink good old green tea, with mint cos I hate the taste, garlic, loads of antioxidants ++++++. Knew theory behind all this but my knowledge was not enough and this is a very long term problem i realise I'm trying to deal with. Think original infection goes back to 13, mother's convinced of this. Started with typhoid immunisations and living abroad where raw sewerage abounded. But I was a pretty robust healthy child so kept bouncing back, even from PE, until a dental blunder (polite term) caused an overwhelming infection. When I look at young people, including my son, going down so early in their lives I realise I was lucky; this could so easily have been me.

    Which course are you doing? I know you're going to love it, I know how much I enjoyed the one I did years ago. Just think a nutritionist who can help people with ME/CFS and a lot more besides.



    [This Message was Edited on 06/26/2003]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/26/2003]
  17. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    Which course did you do and thorugh which College?

    My one is *The Diploma in Natural Nutrition* through the *College of Natural Nutrition* in Bristol, which is also run in other parts of the Country.

  18. tansy

    tansy New Member

    in clinical nutrition about 14 years ago. Trying to remember the surname of the people who ran it, christian names were Tony and Angela - files with cert etc on high shelf will check that later. It was run as a diploma course too and an alternative to Patrick Holford's clinical nutrition course. More food based. The tutors were mostly vegetarians but they did acknowledge veggie diets weren't right for everyone. They believed supps had their place but were not the be all and end all.

    For the first year it was based in Henley, then moved elsewhere. Originally it was just a one year course, then they changed it to two. Cost, greater distance, and ever increasing involvement in Action for Me, made it impractical for me to continue. 2nd year was putting knowledge from 1st year into practice, so at least I got through the theory.

    Now the local unofficial nutritionist, supps, etc advisor. See problems in people all the time that I know they needn't suffer. I love it when people feel so much better, have more energy and feel calmer just through pretty simple diet changes, supps, herbs, etc. I never tell people what to do, if they ask I tell them what to look into then discuss it with them after, or if I know them really well I just make suggestions. Finally got one dear friend to try SBO's for a fungal nail infection, know he has candida but this is the start. Hate to see him suffer, he has post traumatic stress as well. The med they gave him caused panic attacks, a known but rare side effect, just what someone with PTS needs!

    These courses are so much better than those provided for dieticians seem to be. People with ME/CFS usually end up giving dieticians all the necessary info, I've been appalled by the diets they've given some patients.

    You'll learn so much, and if the course is good it will cover all the different philosophies. Think I mentioned mind maps, we were taught these because the course was so intensive. Great way to learn and then recall everything. They're good for studying anything, a god send at revision time too. I had ME then too, and thanks to this method I managed it all. They're another thing I teach others to do.



    [This Message was Edited on 06/26/2003]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/26/2003]
  19. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    I have, always, been interested in nutrition, too..gone herbal, lately..

    RE: Fungal nail infection..My mother has this nail fungal infection, diagnosed by docs, but has never been treated very well..has horribly disfigured total nail/nailbed, yellowish, sometimes loses whole nail and new one grows with same problem..(bedridden with rhuematoid vasculitis/arthritis, diabetes, peripheral neuropathies destroyed her nerves in the legs((doc indicates reason for inability to walk)) She has been wanting me to try to treat with Oregano Oil (suppose to treat fungal infections in nails), but don't know if enough to change her problem..

    Do you know what might help her fungal infection of the nails?

    Thanks and hope you are doing better,
    I am taking Woebynzym enzymes now...My future goal is to try to grow much of what I eat...but need to move to lower elevation for it to bear fruit..(too high at 8900 ft)

    [This Message was Edited on 06/26/2003]
  20. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Spent some time researching this for my friend. He's so afraid of taking anything now so had to look for something topical and affordable.

    So we settled on flora balance powder which contains just one soil based organism and which is available in powder form too. If that doesn't work we'll go onto something with more organisms.

    I'm going to try this too because it can treat a variety of pathogens. Want to treat mouth to stomach, lower GI tract is responding to current probiotics and colustrum etc well so less worried about that area.

    I ordered ours from better life, found it doing a search; it's not expensive compared to many. Only source I've found in UK is expensive.

    We used to grow loads of our own produce when I was fit, married, and living in a rural environment. Always ate "happy" eggs so named because they were laid by happy free range hens. Could access lots more fresh organic food. Some farms in the area sold organic meat too.

    I'd love to be able to do that again. Growing plants and food is just so satisfying. Home grown food allowed to grow naturally and eaten just after it's picked just tastes so good too. That it's better for us is just an added bonus.

    I fully understand why you want to grow your own fruit and veg.



    ps oregano oil is good too, I've had problems with it in the past but may try it again in a while to "mop up" what's left.

    [This Message was Edited on 06/26/2003]