I SWORE I WOULD'NT CRY.....but I am...

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Butterfly_of_grace, Oct 11, 2006.

  1. Butterfly_of_grace

    Butterfly_of_grace New Member

    My dad has Congestive Heart Failure right now. He refuses to go to Hospital and his heart is not working on the one side. Hes home on meds, but hes in bad shape and wont listen to Anyone.I KNEW the other day when my mom (she doesnt live with him they have been divorced since I was 16)described what was wrong with him that it was CHF. Only because Im a medical assistant and I also was an EMT for several years and we transported many people like him. I also volunteered in the Hospital ER as an ER tech and saw many come in looking just as bad with the same symptoms. He actually looks ashened from the lack of oxygen and he struggles to breath. He hasnt even gotten himself a cardiologist. He saw his regular MD and he wanted to admit him ASAP and he refused. He sent him on his way with a handful of RX and hoping for the best. AT any momment he can drop dead. Its that bad. He can throw a clot or clots somewhere and have a stroke. Its really really bad...and he will not do the right thing.


    I swore I wouldnt get upset or cry...hes been a mean ol' basturd all my life and I grew up in an abusive household. Im 39 now and my father STILL knows how to get me emotionally so I have kept my distance for a while keeping in little contact except for holidays and family birthday. When mom first told me yesterday I was angry at him. I kept saying that hes a stupid old fool and what happens to him is his own fault...if he wants to die then so be it, thats is choice....

    after a while, I started picturing him dying along in the house and no one being there (he has a fiance but she works)....laying on the floor grabbing hold of his chest and dying a terrible dead...I pictured his funeral and poof the feelings just rushed right into me and I began losing it.I know sounds sick doesnt it and Im not sure why I had these thoughts...all I knw after that the panic set in. I felt my eyes well up and stopped myself and just got angry again to help me fight the tears. I got thru the night. I did talk to him and we actually had a laugh or two...thats Something thats very rare considering my dad is nothing but a negative judgemental person whos never ever had anything nice or positive to say about me, my husband or our 4 kids. I have always been the "black sheep of the family" since I keep my distance from him and my siblings because of the emotional issues it has caused over my entire life. Anyway, you get the point.

    Now here I am...my day off...quiet house and a million things to do including two check books that are so messed up because I have been careless with them, a stack of bills, some of which are really late and 4 kids off to school and not enough distraction around me to NOT be thinking about my Dad. Ill call him in a little while (he sleeps late) but in the meantime, just when I thought I was strong and got a grip on myself I have been crying. I called hubby to tell him I ordered an Edible Arrangement for my dad this morning and I was FINE until hubby had to say "How are you this morning..." and then I lost it and have been crying since.
    Again, I SWORE I WOULDNT CRY OVER MY DAD...here I am...crying.

    thanks for listening. A quiet house is hard when your trying to contain your feelings.

    HUGS!
  2. mosherpit

    mosherpit New Member

    to cry, afterall he is your daddy. I lost my mom about a year and a half ago to cancer and the last couple of weeks were hard. I cried alot, either alone or with a friend or my husband. I found it rather theraputic and made me able to share the time with my mom in a more positive way.

    Just know you are not alone in this journey, hugs to you.
  3. Kimba4318

    Kimba4318 New Member

    It really IS okay to cry. I was wondering if there is anything you need to say to him before something happens. Is there anything you can say to give you closure, any feelings you can express, anything? I would suggest you ask any questions or say anything you need to, for your own closure.

    I cannot believe he is not being admitted... I wish he was not that stubborn.

    Just wanted to say - my heart goes out to you and I am sorry. Let it out - we all need to sometimes.

    Thinking of you and sending love your way.
    Hang in there!
    Kim
  4. Butterfly_of_grace

    Butterfly_of_grace New Member

    TY Mosh and Mamadove for your response....

    Dad had a real bad night. I tried once again, in a round about way as nto not tick him off, to convince him just a few days in the Hospital would make a world of difference and he right away got upset. He said he will give the meds a few days if he doesnt improve then he will "seek other options..." Im thinking that meant Hospital. But then again, he kept mentioning about how he is 72 yrs old and has had a good life and is ready to die. He went into the whole thing about dont make his funeral big and faney he doesnt want ANY of that...just "dig a whole and put me in sideway, thats all I want". I laughed along with him but I was upset he was already forcasting his death.
    I dont think he will make a few more days. It upsets me that he wont do the right thing and try.

    When I tried to convince him the Hospital was the right choice he said "Who the hell put you up to this???" and I told him NO ONE...just me, because I want him to have the best chance he can have to survive and still have quality of life. I think he thinks either Jackie his fiance made me say it to him or that my mom told me to harrass him. Thats why he said that. But it wasnt anyone...just me. I know alot oabout his condition and I know theres no hope of survival if he doesnt do the right thing...there is no turning back. He seems to be treating it like its a head cold and it will go away...or is it that he has just succumbed to the fact that he will die and hes ok with that.
    I wish I knew how I could try to get inside his head and convince him.

    Just so you all know...I ALWAYS tell my dad I love him before we hang up...I always have. He usually never responds but thats ok, at least I say it to him. I have tried to mend our relationship so many times laready with no success...and ALOT of rejection and pain felt by me afterwords. My mom even told me just stop trying and just keep in touch...so thats what I do.

    HIs fiance said to me that out of the 4 kids my dad and I seem to have a very delicate relationship. That he always sees me as the little girl I always was (he calls me mouse still) even though Im rounding 40. She told me last night, just be there for your dad...joke with him, laugh with him. He seems to enjoy thqt the most. The little things that he does to tease me and get me to laugh mean more to him then I probly realize so just keep doing those little things because he needs that now. So we did on the phone last night. She also told me that in his ski house up in Maine he still has the pictures I drew him when I was a little girl hanging in frames on the walls all around. I KNOW he askes my mom all the time how I am doing etc., but he will NEVER ask me or call me. Weird right? always asking others except me directly. I dont understand my dad. I dont know why he pushes me away when I reach out, and yet, in some sort of warped sense he wants a relationship? We have faught and argued, I have distanced myself as he has too, and yet, if I try to get close he pushes me away. Ill always never be good enough for my dads love..I dont think I will never know why. I even went thru 2 1/2 yrs of therapy and STILL never figured it out and dont expect to.I l know I am closest to my mom out of 4 kids...hes always resented that esp when they went thru divorce and I was closer to her than him. Again WHO KNOWS. I know Ill never find out so basically Ive given up on ever trying to figure it out.


    Understand that my dad has a mile high wall and he allows NO ONE into those walls EVER. He doesnt believe in hugging, kissing or saying I love you. Hes a tough Marine and was in the Korean war inwhich he experienced some pretty harsh things like watching his closest friend next to him get blown up and he too being injured. I think because of his war experience it made those walls even thicker and stronger and desensitized me father. He doesnt know love...its forgeign to him. He has a different way of dealing with those feelings...in an opposite kind of way. Its virtually impossible for my father to show or feel emotions. Its also impossible to repair anything with him. So I just pretend that it doesnt exist when we talk. Seems to keep his negativeness and judgemental attitude in check most of the time.

    sorry my posts are so long. I really need to vent.
    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2006]
    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2006]
  5. MamaDove

    MamaDove New Member


    I'm sorry you have to go through this...

    Some of things you mentioned hit home for me as well...

    It may be time now to make peace with your Dad, in turn, giving you the peace you so deserve...Remember we live on after they're gone...We have to live with the choices we make...Try to make an effort to see him and make peace if it's possible to do...If your health allows, if traveling is not an issue, etc...

    Like someone just told me on my post, this may be the first day in the rest of your life...For the better...Our memories (usually bad) seem to keep a hold on us for our lifetime, wouldn't it be nice to add some pleasant memories of your Dad while he is still here...

    I have made many efforts where my family was concerned, most went badly and not how I anticipated, but I tried...I am at PEACE now regardless of how things turned out...If you are feeling this badly, inside you are wishing things were different...Any attempt you make to change this situation you should make to please YOU...Be selfish about it and make sure you put your health first...Don't suffer for others...

    I'm sorry I rambled, I wanted to show support and with all I have been through, I try to share my experiences but their so lengthy to get the point across and when you try to shorten it, it don't come out the way you intend it...

    Anyhow, something is thinking of you and I am sure others will come along for support too...

    Wishing you peaceful days hon, Alicia
  6. CATHYRG

    CATHYRG New Member

    i too had a relationship similar to yours with my father. after several years of therapy and alot of work on my part.i let go of the image of what i wanted my dad to be to me. he was what he was and i needed to accept that,love him as he was and take care of me emotionally. my children have benefited along with me from that decision. my father passed away 2 years ago. he had fallen an broke a hip,it ws surgically fixed but he refused to stay home and heal. he was geting into his car and slipped again and broke the other hip. we had met the day before with other family members to try and take his car keys away,dad was encluded in this conversation but refused to give them up. he was dead within 3 days of the 2nd hip breaking. i have no regrets, i voiced to him how i felt about how he was not taking care of himself.(he wasn't) but it was his choice and he paid the consequenses. thats how i see it. i believe it was so important to him to remain in charge it was worth dying for..........the last time i saw my dad alive i was walking out of the hospitol room and he gave me a thumbs up. i was 60 years old and had been waiting all my life for that thumbs up. what a beautiful visual for me. cathy
    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2006]
  7. marsupialmama

    marsupialmama New Member

    I have tough issues with my dad too, he was always the distant parent. I would love for him to say he's proud of me but I think I am a big disappointment to him. Not the daughter he always wanted.

    Anyhoo he got sick 17 years ago and was in the hospital, ended up having open heart surgery. I h ad just had my first child and my big bro came and got us and we drove 3 and a half hours nonstop to go visit him. He cried when he saw his grandson and he never. ever. cries.

    But we still have to walk on eggshells and avoid certain topics. I took the kids to visit him (he's overseas) and they had a grand old time together but he still favoured one kid over the others, sent b-day card to only one and the others felt hurt... <sigh>

    Where I live, if you call 911 the police and fire dept come as well as the ambulance. Could you call 911 (I think someone else suggsted it too),and maybe the Official presence will convince him it's time to get to the hospital? He may not even remember if he is so ill,so he can;t hold it against you later on.

    I hope your dad gets the help he needs. Good luck.
  8. NyroFan

    NyroFan New Member

    Butterfly_of_Grace:

    I also mourned for my mother (cancer) before she was gone.
    My father was another story, but also refused to go to the hospital until it was too late.

    Those tears should dry up soon. With four children you know you have to carry on and be a good Mom and wife.

    It might seem like a terrible thing to say, but I would put them first. (which you may already do).

    I am glad you came here to let it all out. And you are right about past/present abuse. Sometimes they will make us suffer right to the grave.

    nyrofan
  9. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    Just sending you a hug as I rush getting ready for a trip. Love Anne
  10. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    You need to let out your feelings otherwise they will build up and make things worse. You will feel worse with your illness if you don't get those feelings out. Plus no matter how much crap there has been between you and your dad you will still be upset by this because he is still your dad. No matter what has happened he is your dad so you will naturally have sad feelings about his poor health and possible death. That is natural.

    As far as your dad is concerned you can only do so much. He is the one who has to accept treatment. You have tried to get him treatment and he refuses so that is his fault and there is nothing you can do.

    Your father sounds EXACTLY like my father in law (well we aren't married yet but plan to be. 8 yrs together so I call them my in laws). We just moved out of his house where we rented his basement for 7 years. He is a miserable person. He complains about everything and can never say anything nice. Whenever we try to do something nice for him or the house etc all he does is complain about it. He is negative about everything and he too is abusive. He was very abusive to my boyfriend (it is his step dad) when he was growing up and was also abusive to my boyfriends sister up until 2 years ago when child services and councelors told him they will take action if it occurs again..not to mention his sister (now 17) will fight back and won't put up with it any longer.

    He is a horrible miserable person who has nothing nice to say about anyone including his kids. He has said horrible things about them to their faces and behind their backs but still claims to love them and still wants some sort of relationship with them. Just like your father. My boyfriends sister too is the one who tries to be the adult and mend their relationship but he acts like an ass. He is too stubborn and they end up fighting. He wants everything the way he wants it and wants to be in control of everything and everyone. He is NEVER wrong about anything (according to him that is). He was also in the military but in vietnam as he is younger than your dad. And despite all of this both my boyfriend and his sister still also get upset when his health is poor because it is natural since he is their dad. They too are in constant quest for his love and approval. (that just comes with the abuse)

    He just recently had health problems too. He was admitted into the hospital twice for heart and lung problems. They put him on drugs and a diet. He didn't take it seriously at all. The second time he was admitted (by ambulance) they wanted to do surgery and instead he decided to leave the hospital and go home and schedule the surgery for when HE wanted to. He said he would be in control of this not the doctors. He is sooo stubborn. So he came home and ate crap and drank caffinated coffee and smoked his cigarettes. He did go back in for his surgery but it had to be on his terms and when everyone tried to make him stay in the hospital and have the surgery when he was supposed to he got mad and yelled at everyone. He still doesn't follow what he is supposed to be doing.

    People like this have control issues. There isn't too much you can do. So don't beat yourself up about this. This is his decision and if he won't go to the hospital that is his own choice. You have done what you can.

    You said "Ill always never be good enough for my dads love..I dont think I will never know why." Please don't think this way or bother trying to figure him out. People like this aren't capable of normal love. They have a skewed view of what love is and how they show it. You have ALWAYS been good enough for his love and always will be...he just isn't capable of showing it appropriately. The relationship that you have with him is all he is capable of. Him not asking you how you are doing and going through your mom etc...all of those behaviors are because he wants to be in control of the relationship with you. He wants things to be on his terms so he can feel like the one with the power/control. Abusive people want power and control. He doesn't want to be vulnerable to you so he doesn't put himself in that position.

    Trying to figure him out is only going to confuse you because he is the only one who knows what is going on in his head and he isn't about to share that with anyone. Instead just take the relationship that you have with him and realize that it is the best he can do and be happy with that. If he is prepared to die just try to make your peace with him and yourself whatever that may mean. Try to have good interactions with him while he is still here so you aren't left with more bad memories and more questions. Just take him for who he is and don't let it affect you poorly because that is just the way he is and you can't change him.

    Sorry to ramble on! I just have so many feelings on this subject since my boyfriends father is the same way. I see how it affects my boyfriend and his sister and it is so frustrating.

    Anyhow I just wanted to share this with you so that you know you aren't alone and that there are people out there who have experienced similar situations. It is normal considering your history to have so many different feelings going through your head right now. It is ok to cry about this so please allow yourself those feelings.

    Hope he gets the help that he needs and that you find some peace of mind about it all.

    Pam
  11. srollins

    srollins New Member

    i am so sorry for what you are going through. i understand completely.

    my mom died 2 yrs ago and my dad has just gone down hill.

    my dad is not, has not been mean or anything , just stubburn.

    as for your dad, he isn't looking at the biggggggg picture here. this isn't a matter of okay well he doesn't care if he dies.
    he might not die. he could have an attack or failure and not die but be in worse shape and be wishing he had died.

    he could end up an invalid or worse, ask him if thats the way he wants to chance living. it is not a matter of you "just up and die" there is alot in between and that he might not like to face. my mother had a stroke 30 yrs ago and had such severe brain damage she had to have total care and couldn't talk, she was just there. she lived like this for 28 yrs. it wasn't fun for her or us. there was no quality of life for her or us.

    i think u see what i am trying to say. next time you are able to have a little heart to heart with him, you tell him this. give him another way to look at things.
    it is one thing for him not to care about himself but he needs to consider what the facts are and how it might impact the rest of the family.

    in the meantime dear one i will be praying for your dad but especially for you that you may have a calmness within your heart. please keep us posted as to how you are doing.

    {{{big hug}}}
    shirley
  12. carebelle

    carebelle New Member

    Even if he was a bad dad He was yours.Your tears are for what you didnt get from your dad.You would probably grieve this during your life no matter when he would leave this life.
    Give yourself permission to go threw all the different emotions you need to .Holding them back is not good for our illness.
    It's very hard to face death, specially when its a parent but life goes on.Forgiveness is more for ourselfs then for the one thats gone.
    Be kind to yourself hold on to your hubby and children we do not have to make the same mistakes as generations before us.
    (((((((HUGS)))))
  13. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    Butterfly ,

    I am glad to see that you are crying. It is so much healthier for your to let it out than to keep it in; I know others have said so but I think it isprobably especially important with our DD.

    BTW, I loved that beautiful picture on your profile. Do you live anywhere near that scene??

    You have done all you can do. The only other thing that someone else mentioned was to call 911. They can see how sick he is and if he sends them away or something you have done your part. It is a shame how some people just continue to hurt the people they love most and like to make them feel guilty for this or that reason.. Nothing is ever their fault. Either way, he will make the decision whether to go or not with the EMERGENCY 911 squad or not.

    You being the sweet sensitive person you are will probably to try and feel guilty if your dad sends them away and he dies or something bad happens. However, he is an adult, and will make the decision. if you know he had been that way all of his life towards you there isn't anything else you can do - except possibly call 911. Of course if not enough oxygen gets to his brain he may not kow what is going on their. Hopefully, the emergency people will see how bad he is and take him anyway.

    However, please no matter what happens TRY not to feel guilty about any of this.. You have done what you can.

    hat about his fiance doesn't she check on him and insist on anything be done or just let him tell her what to do too??

    God bless both you and your father in this terrible situation !

    Lots soft hugs,

    Marilyn (Granniluvsu)
  14. sisland

    sisland New Member

    in My Prayers! I Hope things improve!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Love,Sydney
  15. homesheba

    homesheba New Member


    as my dad - a strong soilder , korea, ww .w and viet nam, emotions wernt shown much..
    . man i miss himso much. i missed being there with my dad when he went to heaven and id give anything to have that time back. you are very fortuate to be able to be with him at this time.
    he perhaps is scared at this time, he is going thru this totally alone,
    no one can go with another in death.
    perhaps he is already trying to distance himself from others as not to hurt so much inside.
    i am praying for you all.
    i am just so very sorry cause i know the pain of loosing my dad.
  16. Butterfly_of_grace

    Butterfly_of_grace New Member

    at all these wonderful and loving responses from all of you. Thank you soooo much it means so much to me. I wish I had the courage of calling 911. His fiance lives with him so really its her call. HSe has been after him for days now to get into the Hospital but once again, he said no. His attitude is that if this is his time to go then so be it. He said he was a soldier shot at, bombed over and he survived those times. He survived a horrible plane crash when I was in 6th grade in his private little Cessna plane and hes been thru alot. His attitude is that they didnt kill him so this wont. I really dont believe he realizes how sick he truly is. He gets very aggitated when I try to tlak to him about getting into the Hospital and I dont want it to be like thatwhere he eventually wont talk to me at all. Right now I need to talk with him asap and make the best of a bad situation. He got his edible arrangement and he loved it. He said he was mad at me for wasting the money but he said he appreciated it. I told him I loved him before we hung up...He told me he loved me too. My dad RARELY uses the "love" word with anyone so for one split second out of my entire relationship with my dad something positive happened. At least if he dies tonight I KNOWthat he loves me too which brings me inner peace somewhat.

    As far as the anger Im still angry he wont find a reason to make himself better. He has 8 grandchildren...that should be reason enough...but then again, family never ever meant much to my dad. If it did, then he would be fighting for his life.

    HUGS all...thank you so much. Im so blessed to have found the support I needed. I will keep all up to date.
    Havent heard from him since this afternoon...no news is good news. Ill call him before the night is over.

    love ya!
    -Diane
  17. Kimba4318

    Kimba4318 New Member

    anything new today? I had to cry reading the "I love you" part. You are loved and hope you feel that way - you deserve to.

    Wondering if the fiance has done anything about 911 or talking him in to going to the hospital.

    Just thinking of you!
    Hugs
    Kim
  18. PepperGirl52

    PepperGirl52 New Member

    My heart goes out to you. You have to stop beating yourself up for this-whatever has happened in your father's life to put up all those walls is NOT YOUR FAULT!

    As someone else said, you will be grieving whether he dies right away or not. He's your dad, and all of us have an idea in our heads of what our dads were supposed to do, say, MEAN to us. When they fall so far short, it's a horrible thing that hangs over us all our lives-no matter how old we are.

    You can't make him do anything he refuses to do. And if 911 is dispatched, and he refuses to go, they aren't going to force him unless he's a danger to himself (suicidal) or someone else. CHF doesn't fall into that category.

    You're right-it really isn't your call, so don't let anyone put the extra burden on YOU. Let it go as much as you can. If you have to, walk up on a hill or a small mountain with a balloon filled with papers of the things you WISHED your dad could have been. Pray and ask God to help you release those things and what they have done to you, and try to let them go. It won't be a cure-all, but it might help you get through a few more days.

    In the meantime, be kind to yourself, and get the grief counselling that you need for now, too. God bless you, Sweetie! PG
  19. mosherpit

    mosherpit New Member

    My mom had the same attitude and we couldn't understand it. She was diagnosed with a rare form of lymphoma but they were positive about the outlook.

    She on the other hand heard "cancer" and ultimately gave up. In retrospect, my family and I wasted precious time being angry with her about trying to fight, when what she wanted was to just go to heaven. She lived a full life, all 3 of her children were married and had at least one child that she knew and loved and she and my dad had just gone on thier dream vacation to Alaska. In her mind she had done all she was meant to do here on earth and she went in peace.

    We fortunately all came to grips with this view before the end so that we could let her know that it was "ok" to go. We would miss her terribly but we understood.

    Try to accept his wishes, you can't make a grown man do something he doesn't want to. But most importantly make sure you and he are at peace with one another in your relationship.

    YOu are in my thoughts and prayers.

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