Ian (or anyone?) - Magnesium question

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by mbofov, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Dr. Sarah Myhill from the UK believes that low magnesium is responsible for PEM in CFS and that raising mag levels is difficult, and that one may need injections to raise it.

    My CFS doctor has been doing annual hair analysis tests for a very long time, and ever since I started crashing in 1998, my hair analysis mag levels have been very low, halfway to the bottom of the below-normal range, regardless of how much magnesium I took. I've been taking magnesium glycinate for a few years now.

    My doctor was reluctant to order magnesium injections for various reasons, and then we decided to test intracellular mag levels using the EXA test which Rich Van K. recommended (see http://www.exatest.com/physicians.htm) - Rich said this was better than the red blood cell mag test. Anyways, the EXA test showed my mag levels were normal, much to my surprise.

    My doctor was stumped and then theorized that perhaps the mag is in my cells but not being utilized, which could explain the discrepancy between the hair analysis and the EXA test (before I started crashing, my mag levels on the hair analysis were normal)

    Which leads me up to a possible thiamine connection. There was an article a few weeks ago about high levels of thiamine helping someone who has FM with energy (I don't have FM, "just" CFS). That person took something like 1500 mg. of thiamine. I took 200 mg. and it was too much made me jittery etc. But I seem to be doing okay now with 100 mg. a day, and seem to have a bit more energy.

    I guess I am wondering if thiamine might be the missing link - I know it works with magnesium and low thiamine I think leads to low magnesium and vice versa. It's too soon to tell if the 100 mg. of B1 I'm now taking will increase my stamina at all. I'm having some work done on my house right now so have to be very careful, cannot risk crashing right now - maybe later in the week or next week.

    So Ian, or anyone, any thoughts on this?

    By the way, I have been taking a B complex for many years, forever it seems, but perhaps it was not enough, or maybe just not a good product. I do take folate and B12 and P-5-P, all of which have helped my energy some, though I still crash.

  2. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    I started taking 500 mg of Thiamine and 500 mg of Magnesium a few days ago. So far I don't notice any difference, however, I imagine it will take at least a few weeks to notice any improvement, and it could be that I need to be taking closer to 1,500 mg of Thiamine for improvement to take place if it is going to.
  3. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Hi Tigerlea - I noticed a difference the same day I took the thiamine but can only tolerate 100 mg. so you may very likely be like the person who reported they did so well on very high doses of thiamine - keep us posted!

  4. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I do not agree with Sarah MYhill.
    Magnesium has not been found to be consistently low in pwme or fm. It can be low but no lower than than the normal population. So, what is magnesium doing for pwme/fm. Well, it appears that the magnesium improves peripheral circulation. Even for people who's magnesium is normal, dosing with extra magnesium still improves peripheral circulation. The probable cause of much of the muscle fatigue and cramps and twitches is probably due to vascular abnormalities in me/fm. the vascular abnormalities are probably due to neuro-immune system problems.

    As you know from some previous reports the vascular shunts are behaving abnormally and peripheral circulation is affected. This causes poor effusion of muscle and a lack of O2 and a poor clearance of toxins and metabolites. Hence poor tolerance of exertion.

    Taking more magnesium seems to reduce the effects of this but cannot stop it.

    Thiamine helps because it reduces lactic acidosis.

    So by taking both magnesium and thiamine you improving peripheral circulation and helping to remove lactic acid and keeping the pH of the muscle effusion higher. (Thiamin deficiency causes lactic acidosis and consequently pain and fatigue)
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    Thanks for your input, Ian. I don't expect this to be a cure by any means, but it would be nice to get at least some relief from the fatigue and muscle pain. I'll let you guys know how I do on this protocol as time progresses. :)
  6. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Thiamine helps with lactic acidosis but also does much more. It's a cofactor with magnesium and both are needed for ATP production. And someone can have normal magnesium levels in the cells but be unable to use it due to thiamine deficiency. The thiamine deficiency can be caused by an enzymatic defect, and it has been found that for some people, this enzymatic defect can be overcome by supplementing with large doses of thiamine. So even though pwme or fm may have enough magnesium in the cells, they may not be able to utilize it due to a thiamine deficiency.

    Again, this could explain why my magnesium levels on hair analysis are extremely low, although the EXA test showed normal mag levels.

    I've just found out that thiamine can help with symptoms of Hashimoto's. There are several references to this on-line. I've been taking 100 mg. of thiamine for a week or 10 days or so, and this morning noticed that my body temperature was 97.8 - it's usually around 96, despite taking 2 grams of Naturethroid a day. I also feel a bit jittery so I am almost positive the thiamine is boosting my thyroid function. I also read a very interesting little tidbit which said that a tonsillectomy can contribute to thyroid problems - had my tonsils out at age 10.