Igenex and Fry labs

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by desertlass, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. desertlass

    desertlass New Member

    Okay, I just got back from my doc. He's an osteopath here in Tucson. He's on ME Zombie's list of good docs from that list she posted-- I can't remember the name of it, now.

    That is just a coincidence-- I have only been seeing him for two years-- when I think now of how much he could have spared me from... well, never mind. No use going down the road.

    Anyway, I asked him to sign my Igenex form and he had no problem with that. He affirmed that they were a good lab.

    I said, what about Fry's? (They are Phoenix).

    He kind of winced and said, "well, one of my colleagues used them once, and what he got back was a kind of a mishmash".

    But then he nodded his head emphatically and said, "Go with Igenex."

    So, there you have it.

    Feel free to get angry and pounce on me and denigrate doctors and people who work in labs and call them stupid and run me off the board on the rails, but all I can do is report the questions and the answers and one man's opinion.

    Should I just keep that to myself? He ordered the Quest test for me without my asking when I first went to see him, because my insurance will pay for it-- so it's not like he has an anti-Lyme bias.

    Anyway, I thought you'd all like to know that when I went to the Igenex lab today to print the order form, they have a new download called QA Package.

    I didn't remember that from before, and it is a PDF download of a letter dated from this month, explaining what happened with the NYTimes, and they have all of their licensing, inspection and CDC regulation forms available.

    Also, a new thing on the order form says that they will do a courtesy PCR along with the Initial and Complete orders if whole blood is sent along with the serum.

    That looked new, too.

    Hope this helps someone else going through the testing process.


  2. mrdad

    mrdad New Member

    I'm at a lost as to what the reference to the NY Times and

    Igenex is about? I was just confirmed positive by Igenex

    and would be curious to see if QUEST would indeed come up

    with the same diagnosis? There are several labs here in the

    Bay Area. If they came up with a different diagnosis would

    it be due to an inferior methodology and/or procedure?

    As I mentioned somewhere else, my medical provider indi-

    cated to me that a Lyme Test done through SFGH would not

    have come up with the same conclusion. Most likely because

    it's methodology would not have been extensive enough to

    identify the presents of Lyme. (?)(?)

  3. victoria

    victoria New Member

    The NY Times controversy is because they published an article saying that IGenex was questionable... all it turned out to be was that they were routinely being evaluated as all labs are.

    At least your doc will sign the IGenex form... they have the highest reliability since they specialize in these... and as I said, 'the powers that be' try to act like something's wrong with them....

    SO nobody's gonna jump on you, it's great that you're getting tested there!

    all the best

  4. desertlass

    desertlass New Member

    Mr Dad--

    Igenex has their side of the story on a link called QA Package right on their home page.

    First comes a letter explaining what happened to them as a result of the NYTimes trying to write an "investigative" piece on the "overdiagnosis" of Lyme.

    Then they have attached their various certifications from the CDC and State of CA.

    If your insurance would pay for various other labs to test you, such as Quest, that would be REALLY interesting to see what they come up with.

    It's the reverse of how most of us have to do it. You already know you're positive, but how much would Quest miss on its test?

    I'm glad you have your answers!

    Victoria-- I was anticipating that what I reported about Fry's labs would offend anyone here who had used them, not Igenex.

    Yesterday, my computer's internal fax reciever would not accept their price list for the various test kits, so I have to try again today...

    This is getting to be more suspense than I can handle-- and I haven't even gotten the dumb test sent off yet.

    My step=grandmother has had Lyme for twenty years, so I have very mixed feelings about what I hope the outcome will be.

    You've all been there, I'm sure.

  5. mrdad

    mrdad New Member

    Thank you for your explanations of the Igenex question. The
    Igenex Test I took was totally of my "out of pocket" expense
    and at my doing. I hope, at some point, to substantiate their
    findings through Quest Lab. However, not sure just how con-
    clusive (scientifically) that would be? If they came up (-)
    it would not necessarily discount the findings of Igenex of

    I'll read the Igenex cover page and thanks much for that
    information and clarification Girls!

  6. victoria

    victoria New Member

    You are absolutely right, Quest and LabCorp have nowhere near the reliability in doing Western Blots... a false positive would be extremely rare.

    (But at least we know their reliability rates, unlike poor Canada who will not release the results of their national labs' reliability rates on lyme western blots, citing nat'l security!)

    If you read lyme research (the articles I just posted about neuroborreliosis are good examples) you'll see that for starters, it can be extremely difficult to find in the blood since it can quickly go inside cells and/or form cysts...

    all the best,

  7. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    The Quest picked up only band 41 on the IgM. Nothing on the IgG.

    My results on the Igenex are in my profile. I got way many more bands positive on the Igenex but still had a negative blot. I was on Abx for 9 days at the time of the Igenex test which is a no-no.

    Thanks ex-FFC doc! Little did I know at the time you should NOT be on Abx when the blood is drawn.

    My LLMD believes a full body massage is helpful the day before the WB. This helps "push" the bacteria from your muscles into the blood. Don't know if there have been any studies on this though.

    The Lyme bacteria lives in tissues like your heart, brain, joints, eyes (nothing you need!!!) and is not much in the blood stream. That's why so many tests are negative. The bacteria is simply just not in the blood.

    I've gotten signficantly better seeing an LLMD and focusing on hypercoagulation, hormones, yeast meds and Abx for Babesia, Borrelia, Bartonella, Candida, CPN, and EBV.
  8. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    PJ Langhoff, author and publisher of the "It's All in Your Head" series of books on Borrelia & Co thinks I'll be blown away when I get my pictures back from Fry.

    Others have posted on my Babs thread on the main board that it's a waste of money. Well see!

    I will post a URL to our Illinoislyme.com website with my photos from Fry when I get them. Die Lyme Die!!

    Speaking of that....just started a yahoo group of the same name so we can chat and exchange emails addys. Wish this board had a button to send PMs.
  9. ritarhoads

    ritarhoads New Member

    I am a practitioner and use Igenex almost exclusively. The problem with most labs, including Quest, is that I cannot get them to do a Western Blot if the antibody screen is negative, and as most of you know, it is rare to get a positive antibody screen in chronic lyme. Igenex will do the Western Blot without even ordering an antibody screen and they do it one-by-one, very individually. I like that, as a practitioner.

    As for Fry labs, I only use them for the Bartonella smear. It is considered experimental and therefore not covered by insurance, but they give me a color pic of the smear and so I can make up my own mind of the diagnosis.
  10. victoria

    victoria New Member

    IGenex is certified by the gov't, even MediCare will pay for their tests... sounds very made up to me.

    Wonder what they'd say if you showed them the certification (not sure if it's on the site) or something similar... IF you want to go thru all that trouble.

  11. victoria

    victoria New Member

    IGenex does other tests as well for lyme, the LLMD community doesn't seem to overall use them in general... so I guess they could be considered 'controversial'.

    Bottom line is, how can a test by a lab be considered controversial if the gov't has certified them... and MediCare and other insurance pays for it?

    But perhaps she's referring to the other tests and not differentiating.

    But the old NY Times article caused a lot of unwarranted negative PR in general I think, sadly, which is still echoing around.