I'm not feeling very patriotic...

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by painterZ, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. painterZ

    painterZ New Member

    I should be getting ready for a 4th of July party. I'm really not big on any holidays but Easter. Anyway, I'm not proud to be an American. I feel awful saying that, and I'm glad I have the freedom to freely speak that but uggg...I'm scared to death of what's happening, not only here but around the world. What, if anything, will my 11yr old daughter inherit as far as the world is concerned? Total distruction? Each "mega-power" goes through its rise and its fall. Are we in the "fall?" I don't want to dominate the world. I can't stand how we jump into everybody else's business. I wish there weren't boarders, ethnic cleaning, sterotyping...I know it will always be there, though. I don't want to move away from where I was born and raised either. This IS home. Our troops are fighting and dying and its so confusing about what's even going on. Sure I'll feel better when I see my family and friends at the party...but I kinda don't want to. My goal today is to hold, to really hold onto a moment of time where I'm happy to be where I am and who I'm with, and hold another moment for all of those who have and are fighting for freedom, have hopes of freedom, and for a better world for our kids.

    Have a blessed day!

  2. victoria

    victoria New Member

    means holding onto the values declared in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, not necessarily agreeing with whomever is holding office currently, ie in power........

    That is what can make it hard, if you think you need to act AGAINST instead of going WITH the flow...

    edited to add: this is not meant for current events or any other particular time in history actually, it's meant as a general statement.

    [This Message was Edited on 07/04/2008]
  3. texangal81

    texangal81 New Member

    I know exactly what you mean, but take heart and remember a time when:

    The world was falling apart, it was rife with sex, scandal, cocaine, loose women, and money-grubbing corporate executives (1920's).

    Chaos was everywhere, people were dying in the streets, they were blowing up buildings. Men grew their hair long while women started wearing pants. Growing a little weed didn't mean clover or dandelions. Our children were dying in an unpopular war and the government had a lying commander in chief at the helm (1960's/70's).

    I'm not trying to trivialize all of the horror going on into the world today, rather I'm trying to give hope because all generations have their turmoil. I was a child of the 60s and 70s. The end of the 60s in my young mind (I was the age of your daughter then) was as close to armageddon as I could imagine. The BOMB was still a very real threat and the thought of World War III or having to live under the specter of communism really did scare me. Men of power were being shot right before our eyes - MalcomX, MLK, RFK, George Wallace. I watched the price of gas skyrocket, I saw gas lines a mile long. I remember the "first" energy crisis. I saw Detroit and the America auto industry die - up close and personal.

    Comfortable, middle-class families where dad was a hard working, tenured, blue collar worker just waiting for his gold watch and pension disappeared over night. Unemployment skyrocketed as layoffs dominoed. Our government was in shambles and we simply got up and walked away from Vietnam (about 15 years too late IMHO). And we treated the men and women who were over there like criminals.

    Yet....Yet.....I'm 48 and was fortunate enough to gain an education. I have seen several periods of prosperity and calm in my life time. I have seen seemingly unsurmountable problems resolved. There has been good. I can now reach out to anyone in the world from my chair. When I am alone and desperate, I know someone out there will listen.

    My point is simply that history repeats itself. So far we haven't had a generation SMART enough to understand that and prevent it. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Perhaps our childrens generation will be the one to finally look back in time and says "ENOUGH" and begin to value the prescience of history.

    It isn't about dispair, it is about hope, that finally someone will understand and change it.

    BILLCAMO New Member

    Even though I don't agree with everything our country has done , is doing , and will do , we still have a pretty good system.

    The whole world is in turmoil right now. But , history DOES repeat itself. It's nothing new now and won't be later.

    Yes , there does seem to be more "factions" that are willing to sacrifice everything.....including their own lives.......to throw us back into the "Dark Ages".

    But , if you look back through history , you'll see it's really nothing new. (Hey is the world flat ?).

    There's one thing our country has that many others do not....The right to vote AND voice our opinions.

    If you don't vote , you risk the possibilty of losing both rights. And if you don't vote.....IMHO..... you don't have the right to complain.

    When I hear someone complaining , my 1st question is "Do you vote ?"........If they say no , I ignore the source of their complaint.

    You only reap what you sow !

    I don't care what or who you vote for.... I may not agree.... But , if you vote , you help our country stay free.

    And , I still believe in "God bless America" !

    If we go down , the whole world will feel the impact.

    Blessings ,

  5. painterZ

    painterZ New Member

    the food was good, the company great. I took a time out by myself and said a quiet prayer for the world. I know we've (humans) have always had troubled times, but when I hear the older generations say "I really don't ever remember it being THIS bad" or "I feel so sorry for the kids today" it scares me. I DO appreciate the freedoms as well as recognize our flaws. There is no "perfect" place anywhere, in this world anyway. Oddly enough, I feel better that I'm not alone with these feelings, anxiety and questions. People in general need more power, not these idiots elected or placed upon countries. Good God I'm mostly German by heritage and look at what one man did...and yet it wasn't one man, it was individuals who were in hard times and got swept up in some sort of...I don't even know what you call it. You can vote or not vote, you don't end up with what you want in the end (usually) its politics for cripes sakes...they do what they want. I don't know who I'm sounding like now, but I'm angry and want to make a difference. I don't believe that just placing a name on a voting card will do that. I think "we the people" need to get it together and have the "government" work for us. "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union..."


  6. doloresf1

    doloresf1 New Member

    You are not alone. I don't know when morale has been this low.

    I watched the fireworks display on TV last night and my heart was not in it. I thought of the money spent on fireworks and the Americans who don't know how they will put food on the table next week.

    I thought of the poor and the elderly who need help so badly and are being ignored.

    World crises, economic crises, energy crisis. How disheartening.

    I don't feel patriotic at all.

  7. therealmadscientist

    therealmadscientist New Member

    When Americans say "our country" do they mean America or Iraq? :) Sigh.

    Just wish that fewer people. Problems seemed more solvable when only a couple billion people on earth.

    Perhaps we need a bigger planet. Hmmm, some sort of global inflation might save us. Or making hilly all the flat land would expand the surface area of Earth.

    The weather channel is always talking about depressions. Perhaps it is a symptom of Rock's worbal gloaming? lol

    I do worry about kids nowadays. Seems that individual humans were more valued and needed fourty years ago.

    [This Message was Edited on 07/07/2008]
  8. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    All I can say is "Well said" to Texangal and B/C. I for one feel very proud to be an American even when things are not going smoothly or the way I wish they would be.

    The only other thing I will mention is that when we went to Europe a couple of years ago, my DH had long talk with one of the guides on our tour. It was in the Eastern block where they experienced alot of WWII . I cannot remember exactly in which country we were in at the time, since we went through quite a few countries.

    This lady said the same thing as a few others from other countries in Europe said, some in different words, - "Go back and tell your children and grandchildren HOW LUCKY THEY HAVE IT THERE IN AMERICA. That did make a big impression on us and we tell other disgruntled Americans whenever he can. My DH is also very disgruntled about the way some of the things have been handled lately as well as what might be happening to us in the future. However, he is still very hopeful as we both are and we still say "GOD BLESS AMERICA" and We are both very proud to be Americans.

    If my mother, was born in what was now the Czech Republic, were here today she would say the very same thing and she wasn't giiven anything special when she came over as child, when her parents died at a very early age. She had a very hard life, actually both in Cz and having to work so hard in America when she came over, but she was intensely happy and proud to be an Americn. She died a few years ago at 93, continued to have an opinion on things and always voted.

    Oh well, I said more than I was going to, so that is it !!

    Hugs to you and all,

  9. justlooking

    justlooking New Member

    I live right next to a Marine base in San Diego County. Every day I see Marines who are coming and going from Iraq, Afganistan and other areas of the world in turmoil.

    These men and women are full of patriotism, these people who are risking their lives for us to sit here on our computers, in public areas, in the media, to complain.

    These men and women aren't complaining and they are a volunteer military force!! I see wives and children, my kids go to school with military kids, I know military wives, they don't complain about this country, despite what they are sacrificing.
    The houses in our city are ALWAYS displaying American flags, there is a sense of pride... not an anti American sentiment. These are the people who are mostly effected by the decisions of our government, yet they are the most patriotic of all. That should say something!

    There may be some soldiers who don't agree with how things have been handled but they know from being out there fighting for this country, that the USA is the best country in the world.

    I don't always agree with politics, politicians or policy, WHO DOES??. But that doesn't mean I am not proud to be an American. There isn't anywhere in the world I would rather live or any country I would rather be a citizen of but The United States of America.

    Sincerely and with great patriotism,

    [This Message was Edited on 07/05/2008]

    BILLCAMO New Member

    .... using the other rights and freedoms that we have.

    It's based on an old poem that has many variations , but , is often titled "First , they came for the Jews...".

    I'll give you a short modified version so it won't take very long.

    First they came for the Jews and I did not stand up for them since I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for many other groups and I did not stand up for them , either , because I was not one of them.

    When they came for me , there was no one left to stand up for me.

    (Even though I feel so , I'll stand up for your right to disagree with me.) :>)

    Blessings ,

  11. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    That is why I almost didn't post to this one. I usually tell all the newbies to come to the chit chat board where they can post about almost everything EXCEPT politics and religion.

    I am sure also sure that alot of others have opinions and that is why people are holding back. We probably are not going to change anyones opinion and some could say things that could be hurtful to others. So, personally I think it would be best just to drop whole the subject unless you want to post on a different type of board..

    I am still a proud American. Not saying we are perfect but I am still proud and happy to live here.

    Blessings and hugs,

  12. painterZ

    painterZ New Member

    being an American I CAN say what I feel and I'm not a newbie...been around for over a year and a half now. It's kinda like the TV (you can always change the channel) don't like what I post, you don't have to read or reply. Only a few a you, despite how long I've been active, or lurking or not here, ever reply to me so don't get on me now because it's a "touchy" subject.

    Let's be democratic, take a vote, don't want this post ask for a deletion. I was the first place winner in debate for three years and learned: there's no need to yell, there's no need to change one's opinion, but there IS a need to get viewpoints out there. Everyone has different experiences that will jade their point of view one way or the other.

    This post was for me...because I felt badly that I DIDN'T feel patriotic, and felt alone on that view. I didn't want or need to get jumped on about voting, or waving a flag or anything else. I came to share my inner issue and for the most part got slammed for it.

  13. victoria

    victoria New Member

    I really liked what you said:

    My goal today is to hold, to really hold onto a moment of time where I'm happy to be where I am and who I'm with, and hold another moment for all of those who have and are fighting for freedom, have hopes of freedom, and for a better world for our kids.

    Same for me yesterday and everyday, really...


    BILLCAMO New Member

    But I saw no one "slammed"....I see where a couple of my statements could have been taken that way , but , it was not intended.

    I'll stand by my last statement that I'll stand behind anyone's right to disagree.

    No reason to delete this thread , debates often have opposite viewpoints.

    IMHO , it's not a matter of winning....the best outcome is when we all understand each other a little better...

    So , let's all join in a big group (((((HUG))))) !

    (I'll keep my arms low since my DDs have had a very negative impact on my B/O). :>)

    Blessings ,

    [This Message was Edited on 07/06/2008]
  15. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    Hi Painterz -

    I stand corrected as far as I am sorry if you think I TOLD you not to continue with or to delete your thread. I am sorry for that. It was your thread an I shouldn't have mentioned nct continuing along with it. You surely can keep it up as you wish. And YES we all want the best for our children and grandchildren.

    I just think it might be a very touchy subject for some as it was for me, especially on the 4th of July. I guess I just should have not posted as was my first instinct. I know I haven't posted to you alot if at all either, but that was not for any partiular reason. I had been staying alot on the Porch but lately have been trying to read and reach out to others on chit chat as well as the FM Board.

    Again, I am very sorry if you thought I was TELLING you to delete it. I just hoped to avoid a big disagreement here on the board..

    I think I had better get out of here before I put my foot in my mouth again (-: !! As I said before I doubt if anyone is going to change anyones mind about it so chat on my friend if you so desire to.

    Bye for now.

    Hugs and Blessings,


  16. doloresf1

    doloresf1 New Member

    I don't think you need to feel bad at all about posting this topic. Yes, it's a "touchy" issue, but bound to surface on this holiday. And we all have a right to say what we feel.

    I guess I'd like to see ways to encourage each other. And ways to help our children and grandchildren through these hard times. How can we the people help each other?

    We will get through this. Americans get through hard times. But it seems unending.

    I'm in favor of a group hug! ((((((((((HUG)))))))))))

    And I'm in favor of peace and unity.

    Thank you, painterZ, for your thread. I needed it.

  17. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    I agree that I am for unity and peace everywhere including here !!

    SO, here is a BIG group hug to AWL !! Bye for now, on this thread anyway !

    ((((Group Hug to EVERYBODY ))))


    [This Message was Edited on 07/06/2008]
  18. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    To quote a song:"I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free...." Having said that I'd like to respond to the comment about the U.S.A. trying to dominate the world and always jumping into other countries' business. We are not trying to dominate the world. As the greatest superpower we have a duty to step in and help countries that are under ditatatorships. The atrocities that occur to the people by their own leaders cannot go unnoticed by us. Just because it doesn't affect us directly doesen't mean we shouldn't get involved. Where was the outcry by all of the feminists here ,regarding the abuse of women in the Middle East? Heck, they didn't even speak out when Hillary was abused by her hubbie/our president!!! (Not that I for one minute believe that Bill's philandering and sophomoric behavior is anywhere close to the egreious acts in the Middle East)Also, last time I checked, we were attacked here by terriorists. Are we supposed to try and make nice with them in hopes that it won't happen again? Having said that, remember it's the election season and it always boils down to the economy..the media are the real one's in control and I for the life of me can't understand why they would want to undermine the well being of our country by skewing the facts. To them perception is reality!!!
  19. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    How can you say that you always support the troops, yet not their efforts? Yeh war is ugly, but unfortunately a necessary evil
    By the way, my older brother was killed in Vietnam. He was a helicopter pilot. He too signed up as a commisioned officer. He was in collage at the time but his convictions about the war led him to enlist. Many of our enlisted men and woman are professionals who feel passionate about doing their part for our country as well as those oppressed in the Middle East. Not supporting the reason they are over there just doesn't fly.

    BILLCAMO New Member

    I tried starting a group ((((HUG)))) !

    I'm guessing a few missed my message of making peace and not war...... ;>)

    Yes , I find that frustrating. LOL

    Blessings ,


    PS..... LOL also means Lots Of Love.[This Message was Edited on 07/06/2008]