I'm starting to notice pain in my elbow joints,

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by razorqueen, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    that I've never had before. I don't have arthritis, at least not the last time I had my blood tests done. They hurt when I bend them and pick something up, and sometimes they just plain ache. All I take for meds is 10 mg amitriptalyne, 1 mg clonzapam, and maybe 1-2 Tylenol 3 , oh and I just started Jarro-dohpilus a wk ago. I go for a physical in August,(haven't had a pap since I can't remember) and will talk to the doc about it then if it still doing this. Anyone have any ideas?
  2. Aberlaine

    Aberlaine Member

    Just a wild guess - two of the FM tender points are located on the outside of your elbows if you're holding your palms up. Maybe they've become "more tender".
  3. fibromaster

    fibromaster New Member

    I started having elbow pain off and on years before I got fibro and cfs. The doctors treated me with anti- inflammatory meds. Then I was diagnosed hypothyroid. One of the symptoms of low thyroid is joint pain. However synthyroid didn't help. It wasn't until I started taking a higher dose of armour thyroid that I got better. If I had known what I know today I could have saved myself four years of pain and suffering. Have doctor check for thyroid antibodies; anti-thyroid peroxidase and anti-thyroglobulin antibodies.

    The most common cause of thyroiditis is called Hashimoto's thyroiditis. This form of thyroid disease may also be referred to as chronic lymphocytic thyroiditis. As we have already discussed, this autoimmune form of thyroiditis may run in families. Additionally, families that suffer from non-thyroid autoimmune disease such as diabetes or rheumatoid arthritis may also be at risk for the development of Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
    Most patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis don't even realize they have any thyroid disease because the symptoms are initially very mild. Most often the thyroid slightly enlarges so that it appears bulky and larger. This enlargement is due to the inflammatory cells which destroy thyroid cells, resulting in long term scarring. When the cells are damaged they cease thyroid hormone production, resulting in hypothyroidism. Again the symptoms are usually mild, e.g. fatigue, difficulty concentrating and weight gain. But they can progress and be quite severe, affecting every organ system in the body as described in the section on hypothyroidism.

    Occasionally, if you have Hashimoto's' thyroiditis, you may develop an overactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism), rather than the usual hypothyroidism. Too much thyroid hormone is the result of thyroid hormone release into the blood stream as thyroid cells are destroyed. This hyperthyroid period is generally short, and is followed by a period of time when the thyroid functions properly. Sometimes, however, this period of normal thyroid function is short-lived and as scarring sets in, hypothyroidism results.

    The diagnosis of Hashimoto's thyroiditis is simply diagnosed by two blood tests. First the routine thyroid function tests to confirm that a patient has an underactive thyroid gland, and second the thyroid antibody tests (anti-microsomal or anti-thyroglobulin antibodies), which pinpoint Hashimoto's thyroiditis as the cause of the hypothyroidism. Anti-microsomal and anti-thyroglobulin antibodies are immune cells which the body produces to attack specific portions of the thyroid cells. The anti-microsomal antibody test is much more sensitive than the anti-thyroglobulin, therefore some doctors use only the former blood test. These thyroid autoantibodies blood tests are high in about 95% of patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
  4. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    I don't have arthritis either, but I get the same thing when in a flare often. I used to much worse and every morning it was painful to open my meds (requested poptops for everything), lift the kettle, you get the picture. I was living in a basement and inhaling alot of exhaust fumes when at my worst.

    Don't forget FM is a soft tissue pain disorder. Ligaments and sometimes joints can be affected, depending on the individual, minus the degeneration of arthritis. It is very much a rheumatic condition. Oh, and I'm glad others mentioned the elbow tender points, I forgot all about them, hah. So no wonder I get such sore elbow/wrist joints in some of my bad episodes.

    Something else that perked up my ears that you said, is you just started probiotics a week ago. Bingo, that can be a die off symptom, it's a common one w/ me when I take a prob. and I'm esp. yeasty.


  5. mitzy5000777

    mitzy5000777 New Member

    i thought mine was arthitis, but the doc said there is no sign of inflammation. my knees and hip bones also hurt more also. sounds like arthritis to me. my doc gave me 600 mg. ibuprofen 3 x's daily for this pain - since my oxycontin and oxycodone don't even touch it. the ibuprofen does help a little. pretty funny. the weird thing is that the ibuprofen makes me sleepy, so i can't take it during the day. the narcotics don't even make me sleepy! anyway, i have been checked for the thyroid stuff also. no problems found. i guess this is fibro also. the weather makes it all so much worse (cold or rain). i'd like to hear other ideas also.
  6. DPgirl

    DPgirl New Member

    Don't have the pain in my elbows, but do have the pain in my fingers, hip joints, ankles and especially my knees. They are giving me fits right now. NSAIDs have not helped at all - just take the edge off of the aching. Dr. put me on Salsalate this past week - it's supposed to be more geared toward the arthritic areas. We'll have to see how it works. He also changed my night drug to Sertraline - I had been taking doxephin, but it wasn't helping. Other than that - I take tramadol if the pain gets to me. It's just one of the symtoms of FM that finally decided to rear it's ugly head. Definitely discuss w/doc at your appt. and hope that you feel better soon!!!
  7. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    for your input, jeanne, it could very well be because of the probiotics I am taking. Makes sense. What else can I expect from the Jarro-dophilus?
  8. snowshoes

    snowshoes New Member

    I'm glad to hear that someone else has so much elbows pain. I have had so much pain in the last 5years. I have had 2 surguries and did improve for about a year and than it started coming back. I have decided, that my pain is flareups and they have just started flaring up again. I have the tenderpoints on the inner sides of the elbows and also the inner sides of the knees. sometimes I have pain in the chest like a needle poking me and if I push on it, it feels like a boil. I also have very bad neck pain and hip pain. also has started in my rt. ankle. I doesn't seem to be in my knees at this point. I have not been told by the dr. I have FM yet, but my sister does have it. Does it run in the family and are these all FM symptoms?
    take care, I feel for all of you..........
  9. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    it is my belief that it does run in familys. I have it, my mother has it, and my daughter is starting to have some of the same symptoms.
  10. elbow pain, wrist pain, knee pain, hip pain, sometimes foot pain. This is one disease that doesn't like to leave any joint out.
  11. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    my common ones (and I still get after years of use when I'm yeasty) are chills, can't get warm for few hours, aching finger tips and toes, pain, burning eyes, enhanced allergy symptoms even if no obvious allergen is around (because the allergens are internal.

    I get sublingual drops from my EI doc's allergist of acetylahyde/quercetin. They really take the edge off. I'll explain how and why they work if you or someone is interested.

    The following is a great article on herxeimer (die off).

  12. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction (referred to as "Herx" often) is believed to be a reaction caused by organisms (bacteria) dying off and releasing toxins into the body faster than the body may comfortably handle it. It was originally observed in patients with syphilis who received mercury treatment [*]. 93% of patients with syphilis has Hughes Syndrome, it is estimated that 92% of CFS patients has Hughes Syndrome.

    Most CFIDSers will have moderate to severe herx effects from antibiotics that will usually have no effects on normal healthy individuals[83% in one R.A. study, 51.4% in Lyme Disease, 89% with B. recurrentis infection]. The reason for this may be the diminished blood flow system caused by the thickening of the blood commonly found with CFIDS patients. Alternatively, "it seemed to occur when injured or dead bacteria released their products into blood and tissues, provoking a sudden and exaggerated inflammatory response"[*] - thus the response may be connected to the specific organism being killed off. Many non-antibiotic treatments (Hale's breathing, glutathione - whey products, {probiotics & antifungals} ) are reported to also produce a herx effect -- whether it is bacteria die off or simply toxin release, the effect is the same: misery!

    * What is a Herxheimer Reaction?
    * The Herxheimer Reaction History [History and current theories (technical)]
    * The New England Journal of Medicine -- August 1, 1996 -- Vol. 335, No. 5

    Intensifiers if on Antibiotics

    * Bromelain
    * Serrapeptase

    Onset of Reaction

    Depending on illness and antibiotic: from 1-2 hrs to 10 days after antibiotics started

    The most common ones include:

    * increased joint or muscle pain
    * headaches
    * chills
    * Heavy perspiration and night sweats
    * Nausea
    * Burning micturition
    * Bone pain
    * swollen glands
    * bloating
    * constipation or diarrhea
    * fever (usually low grade)
    * hypotension (low blood pressure)
    * Itching, hives and rash (sometimes mistaken for an allergic reaction - this must be an MD's call)
    * heart palpitations, elevated heart rate, orthostatic

    Tachycardia are reported on http://www.onelist.com/community/cfs_Mycoplasma/
    Treatment (reduction)

    Treatment consists of two approaches: improving the blood flow to clear the toxins faster (see vascular constriction), or, neutralizing the toxins (or both)

    * Probenecid (Dr. Jadin [*])
    * Benadryl (antihistamine)
    * Therma-Flu or equivalent
    * Aspirin (Bromelain may increase it!)
    * Meptazinol [*, *]
    * Increase in blood thinning supplements
    * Lemon/Olive Oil drink (may be done with water or Grape Juice)
    * 2 Tbsp Lemon Juice (Organic) or 1/2 lemon rind)
    * 1 Tbsp cold pressed Extra Virgin Olive Oil Water or juice ... stir
    * Concord Grape Juice with flavoids (widens blood vessels)
    * NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs),
    * pain medication (see ibuprofen risks..)
    * muscle relaxers,
    * hot baths / hot tub
    * steam (dry or hot) sauna
    * a saltz bath: add 1 cup salt, 1 cup soda, 1 cup epsom salts, 1 cup aloe vera, to a
    * hot bath, remain in and keep hot for about 1-1/2 hours all the while consuming
    * about 2 quarts of warm water.
    * Hale's breathing
    * Control panic attacks, anxiety and worry (they constrict the blood vessels, worsening the effect).

    Differentiating between a Herxheimer, a flare and an allergic reaction to the drug

    "Laboratory tests can help differentiate between a worsening of disease (RA flare), a Herxheimer reaction to microbial toxins, and an allergic reaction to medication.

    1. WBC will elevate in a Herxheimer and lower in a flare.
    2. A Herxheimer will also exhibit a coincidental elevation of SED rate, gamma globulin and total globulin ,and a fall in serum albumin and hematocrit. Patients who exhibit this flare reaction accompanied by anemia, depression of serum albumin, elevated total globulin and gamma globulin are probably reflecting a more intense reaction pattern to anti-L substances than in hematologically mild cases.

    3. A marked increase in eosinophils (for instance about 30%) is an indication of an allergic reaction to the drug."
  13. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    for your quick reply, was wondering what exactly people were talking about when they said they were Herxing!!
  14. larry11

    larry11 New Member

    I have the fms and osteo in the spine, i was diagnosed first with tennis elbow, 4 months later with fms by a different MD, anywho, i was given steroid shots in the elbow and rarley does it bother me know, good luck to you

    [This Message was Edited on 10/18/2005]
  15. CanBrit

    CanBrit Member

    I was diagnosed last year and for the past six months I get pain in my elbows when I go into a flare. Sometimes it's there just mildly, other times it throbs.

    Even the bone feels sore, but my rheumatologist said that it's sore because the muscle connects to the bone. The muscle gets inflamed and it affects the bone too.

    Fun little syndrome this is eh!!! I'm just getting over a bad flare that had me off work most of last week. Knocked me right off my feet. Still using hot pads at work but thank god I'm mobile again.

    I find heat helps me on all my sore points.



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