Immune System Test CD4 CD3 Questions

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Elisa, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Elisa

    Elisa Member


    I had an immunodeficiency test run and it had two non-normal findings:

    CD4/CD8 Ratio 3.8 (norm 1-3.50)

    CD3-CD16+CD56+% 19 (norm 0-18)

    My doc has no idea - any ideas?

    Thanks so much!

    God Bless,

    [This Message was Edited on 07/17/2009]
  2. ChuckNBerkeley

    ChuckNBerkeley New Member

    Lots of "the following abnormalities were detected:" T, B NK CD-this and CD-that. 16 years later I still have CFIDS. No doctor has ever been able to explain the "abnormalities".

    And my overall health has declined not a whit. Just can't do anything physical more than walking about 1 mile a day. No flu, no more colds than normal, etc etc etc. Before CFIDS I was running 26, 50 and 100 mile trail races so 1 mile is totally not to my liking.[This Message was Edited on 07/17/2009]
  3. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Hi Elisabeth,

    This test deals with T-cells. It's often run on AIDS patients, who have problems with T-cells.

    You state in another post that you have a copy of Osler's Web, so you can read about the test on Page 95.

    CD4 is a helper T-Cell. CD-8 is a suppressor T-cell.

    In AIDS, helper T-cells (CD4) are low. Their ratio thus is lower than the norm.

    In CFS sufferers, the total number of suppressor T-Cells (CD8) is low. Thus, the ratio between helper T-cells (CD4) and suppressor T-cells (CD8) is high.

    That's consistent with what you report. So it sounds like you have CFS! (surprise)

    Why the suppressor T-cells is low in CFS sufferers, I don't know. Apparently your doctor doesn't know either. Maybe some researcher or doctor has a theory. That would be interesting to hear, if so.

    Here is an excerpt I found on the Web:

    >A detailed phenotypic analysis of major and minor circulating lymphocyte subsets is described in potential blood donors with markers of hepatitis C virus (HCV), including non-viremic and viremic groups. Although there were no changes in the hematological profile of either group, increased the levels of pre-NK cells (CD3-CD16+CD56-) and a lower frequency of mature NK cells (CD3-CD16+CD56+) characterized innate immunity in the non-viremic group.

    CD3-CD16+CD56+ appears to be a measure of levels of Natural Killer Cells.

    Levels of NKC's in CFS patients sometimes are lower than usual. More often it's the activation that's low though.

    It seems that your NKC level is a tiny bit high. I don't think that's terribly uncommon in CFS patients though.

    Did it say how the activation (or activity) is doing on the panel? (Normal activation is usually >16. CFS patients often have low levels, such as <5.)

    In any case, these numbers really are just used to for diagnostic purposes (to see if you have immune system issues consistent with CFS). A good clinician should look at a number of different immune system measurements when making that conclusion, since these numbers fluctuate a lot over time in CFS patients.

    WHY the NKC's are so frequently not working (low activation) or why they're sometimes low and sometimes high in counts is a very good question! Kenny de Meirleir would love to figure that one out. I haven't heard him give a convincing reason why though.

    Best, Lisa

    [This Message was Edited on 07/17/2009]
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

    I have had consistently high cd4 and cd8 which have dropped but still in the high range since on famvir. Only recently have i had a low cd4/8 ratio which my doc said means my immune system is struggling. with the elevated cd8 he said its probably ebv reactivation. My total lymphocytes are just within normal range although both cd4 and cd 8 still elevated.

    How do we strengthen these lymphocytes, Im taking a herb combination recommended by my doc ginseng dang gui 10 powder which he says they use to strengthen the immunity of cancer patient after chemo etc
  5. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    Dear luminescentfeeling,

    You are amazing - so quick to reply and all your results too.

    As I look at your (and mine) results - it certainly looks like a super activated immune system. Like it's on high alert or worse the "bug" has been found but it can't take it down...(poet and don't know it...ha ha).

    Anyway thanks so much - it's always good to know i am in such good company!

    God Bless,

    [This Message was Edited on 07/17/2009]
  6. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    Hi ChuckNBerkeley!

    I sure share your frustration of test results and no one to interpret them...

    I also feel for you about your running - such a bummer to not be able to do what we want physically...when I was able it just felt sooo wonderful.

    Keep up the 1 mile walks - because some day you may be able to do the longer distances - science is excelerating everyday and we must try to stay ready - at least that is my thought!

    God Bless,

    [This Message was Edited on 07/17/2009]
  7. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    Hi Lisa!!!!

    Amazing information and sooo sooo helpful to me!

    I guess I am super activated over something...

    Thanks for your thoughtful explanation.

    I couldn't find the overall test that you referred to on the panel - maybe it wasn't done.

    I have a Kenny D lecture cd and it was so very interesting - I took detailed notes and hoped to type them up and post them here.

    Thinking of you and wishing all good things to come your way and bless you and most of all, thankful for your help and knowledge!

    God Bless,

    [This Message was Edited on 07/17/2009]
  8. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    Hi Heapsreal,

    Thanks so much for your info. It is so great your doctor is keeping an eye on your immune system - that is certainly a rare thing.

    I think there is so much to gain from herbs that support and strengthen the body. It seems that the body recognizes natural "medicines." Certainly, it is a far better route than pharmaceutical drugs.

    I hope the herb is helpful - love to hear your experience with it!

    God Bless,

  9. acer2000

    acer2000 New Member

    Yours are high? I don't think that is "typical" for CFS? Have you ruled out other causes for illness?