indole-3-carbinol ---Brocolli--- and the Herpes Viruses

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by wrthster, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    Hi all,

    Since HHV6 and other herpes related viruses are a big part of CFS, I am shocked that many of us and the doctors have never seen this nor mentioned it. We pump Valcyte and other killer drugs and here something so cheap and simple is at least worth a try. I hope you all find this of interest.

    There is also a nutraceutical which is the isolated ingredient indole-3-carbinol compound mentioned in the article. You can buy it online or in any health food store if you don't like to eat the stuff. I am definately going to give it a try, I think it is certainly worth it.

    Bizarre Benefit of Eating Broccoli

    Eat broccoli and you could ward off herpes.

    Preliminary lab studies of monkey and human cells conducted by researchers at the Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine in Rootstown, Ohio show that a compound found naturally in broccoli, cabbage, and brussels sprouts-- indole-3-carbinol--may be a key to inhibiting the herpes simplex virus. And it works really well. The compound blocked the virus from reproducing by an amazing 99.9 percent--essentially 100 percent effectiveness.

    The indole-3-carbinol compound works by interfering with factors that help cells reproduce. It inhibits the herpes simplex virus in the same way, since the virus needs those same factors as the cells to reproduce, reports WebMD and the Philadelphia Inquirer.

    The study: The researchers treated human and monkey cells with indole-3-carbinol. Then they infected them with one of two strains of the herpes virus: HSV-1, which can cause oral or genital herpes, and HSV-2, which causes genital herpes. The cells were also infected with a herpes virus strain that is known to be resistant to medication.

    The results: The indole-3-carbinol compound blocked the virus from reproducing by at least 99.9 percent. Best of all, since the compound is found in food, it's safe.

    Herpes differs markedly from other viruses. Once a person contracts it, the virus lives in the body for a lifetime. The American Social Health Association estimates that as many as 80 percent of adults in the United States have oral herpes, while 20 percent have genital herpes. Fully 90 percent are unaware they have the virus. There is no cure.

    While this research news is promising, caution is advised until further studies are done. What works in the lab doesn't always work on humans in the real world. Still, eating more broccoli is a good idea not only to prevent herpes, but also to possibly ward off cancer, cataracts, and stroke.

    The research findings were presented to the Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy.

    [This Message was Edited on 02/22/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 02/25/2008]
  2. tansy

    tansy New Member

    and grow brocolli sprouts.

    i prefer to try the simpler and potentially safer solutions first. having a history of serious reactions to meds, problems coping with what felt like unwise overwhelming die off, and side effects that can feel worse that the illness being treated, i am now even more inclined to the gentler approach.

    thanks for posting this here. so much more is now being learned about phytochemicals

    tc, tansy

  3. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    You are very welcome, I hope more people read this thread. The active ingrediant is Indole-3-Carbinol which is sold in different brands at most health food stores. They have not tested it in humns, but in human cells and monkey cells and as indicated in the article was extremely effective. I googled it and apparently it has many extemely important uses. I am amazed no one has ever mentioned this product neither person nor doctor.

    I am going to start with 800mg per day on an empty stomach spread out, 2 and 2. I am in bad shape and can not tollerate the Valctye. Nothing else has worked either. It is also highly indicated for Estrogen Metabolism as well as anti breast cancer in addition to the herpes study.

    Thanks for reading maybe I will post again and list the active ingredient in the title.
  4. Ginner

    Ginner New Member

    thx all
    going thru posts today...too ill so keeping to print and read in bed
  5. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    Thank you very much for the encouraging words, I really appreciate. Yes, the Valcyte was extremely toxic and my liver enzymes like yours spiked. I did not feel it was worth it.

    I agree, after two infusions wiht the Peroxide it just may be to much right now because I am also working with a Homeopath and giving me some very serious remedies.

    SO I am trying to cut back on the amount of supplements to get a better handle and control the die off. What I am really wondering, and I have seen consistent on the board, is that these stuff no matter what therapy keep coming back? Are bodies just can't detox it? I don't know what the answers are. I feel like if I don't do the research no Doctor or PHD is going to do it for me. I think this article is a prime example. It is either research or just give up.

    I will keep you posted. And thanks again to all.
  6. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    I wonder if this mechanism is effective with other herpes family viruses - such as EBV and HHV-6? Wouldn't that be amazing! We will all be eating brocoli daily!

  7. sleepyinlalaland

    sleepyinlalaland New Member

    broccoli. But I know that broccolli sprouts are so much more nutritional.

    I've tried sprouting my own before and it was not successful for me. Much harder than alfalfa. I think only half or less would sprout, and then they would grow so slowly, they molded. Anyone have good experience with do-it-yourself on sprouting? I think surely there are starter kits which I will research...I think it would be worth the investment for this.

    Personally I really wouldn't trust isolated manufactured form of this substance. Pill form of Beta-carotene was thought to be a good anti-cancer idea at one time also...turned out it expediates lung cancer!
  8. tansy

    tansy New Member


    i found them diffult to sprout in anything other than perfect conditions. they produce hairy roots that can be mistaken for mould; however, i also had genuine mould problems.

    i can not remember who posted this advice but it was suggested garlic be placed in the sprouting tray/sprouter.

    if your home, or the outside temp, is warm enough for seeds to germinate they can be grown in compost. seed trays are large enough for this purpose.

    tc, tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 02/24/2008]
  9. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    My LLMD recommends DIM or Diindolylmethane and Indole-3-carbamol along with some forms of B-HRT. I never seem to have enough money to buy meds and every single supplement.

    ** SIGH ** why does this have to be such an expensive thing to treat?
  10. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    I researched some more under herpes and found these supplements that again no one has mentioned. I thank very much one of the posts regarding her LLMD using the supplement mentioned in the article. That means I found something that an LLMD who knows his stuff is using.

    I would suggest everyone google the supplements and read the warning and recommendations. My guess is if they work for herpes they will work for many other CFS type of pathogens. Here they are:

    Prunella vulgaris OR HEAL ALL/MINT FAMILY
    Rozites caperata

    Bee propellis-CAUTION
  11. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    If I correctly understand what Rich Van K has posted, we probably have a problem with sulfur as in not being able to metabolize it so that we can therefore utilize it. And if we have a problem with sulfur metabolism, then we more than likely will have a problem with Mint. It is entirely possible that the reason someone has a problem with Herpes is because of sulfur metabolism. I haven't researched this indepth, but I've come across articles relating to the use of sulfur on outbreaks of Herpes. But these articles are about using sulfur on skin. I would imagine the proper metabolism or utilization of sulfur on the inside of the body may eliminate Herpes. Or at the very least keep the Herpes virus at bay.
    [This Message was Edited on 02/25/2008]

    LISALOO New Member

    My moms neightbor's son no longer has CFS symtems unless he easts sugar or has alcohal, or doesn't have broccoli daily. I thought that was weird but this makes sense.
  13. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    From the last two posts, it appears one example says we have a problem metabolizing sulfer, the other we do not. I wonder if there is a test for this, does anyone know?

    Thanks again
  14. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    I am curious, what does the mint family of herbs have to do with sulfer? Thanks very much.
  15. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    Munch I here you, i am going broke trying to do all this. All my SSDI back money will be gone before I know it. I am trying to draw a line, everything is trial in error. We need clinical trials desperately. Maybe we can get everyone one here to bug the CFIDS association and the other one to start putting up some bucks. Mabye as a grp we can go to some of these vitamin companies to run studies with the whole group. Profit gives them incentive. If it works, they will make a fortune.

    If you have a really good LLMD, what supplements does he recommend as top priority? There was one on there after the first two I did not recognize? Your feedback is appreciated.
  16. wrthster

    wrthster New Member

    I am trying to help all of us. But you must research on your own and see whats best for you.

    If anyone is intersted I will provide the contact info to get this. This guy I spoke with him, 25 years as an Herbalist. He formulated this. Now if we could only find a way to get this stuff out of our bodies and detoxify properly once we kill it off. Then we would be in good shape.


    The Original "Viral Defense" by Plant Cures
    Save $40.00 with new 16 Oz. bottle!

    This is one of those formulas that came about in our clinic by combining herbs for various viral diseases. It is a combination of Chinese herbs and some amazing western herbs.

    The plants in this formula do a tremendous job against just about any virus including many forms of Herpes, even Genital Herpes sometimes! This may take 3-4 twelve day courses - (3-4 bottles or one 16 Oz. bottle) It does not always work for this but it does more often than not!(It seems the use of "Valtrex" can block the healing sometimes and once in a while there is a stubborn case that just dosn't respond - I do not know all the reasons for this!)

    This will kill the Herpes Zoster virus too! (I still have MDs refer their patients to me for this) I have seen it stop Shingles in just a few days! (Once in a while there is a strange stubborn case that just won't heal for some reason) It even speeds up the healing time in children's "Chicken Pox".

    By the way, This is something you always want in your medicine cabinet! When anyone comes in direct contact with any kind of flu or “bug” of any kind, a tea spoon of this twice a day for a day or two will prevent you from getting it! It has never failed in our family!(I take a big sip every time I visit someone sick and I never "catch" it!)

    The Skullcap leaves in the formula have a long history of killing the Rabies Virus, (Hence the name "Mad-Dog Weed") Osha Root is another extremely strong Anti Viral. You can read "How I was healed of Viral Pneumonia by using Osha Root."

    Herbalist's note: I have always used Prunela Vulgaris in this formula (I developed this 12 years ago) and now Prunella is a big "buzz word" in many herbal circles as "the only Herpes Cure" I have sometimes seen Genital Herpes and many times seen Herpes Zoster (shingles) disappear with Osha Root alone! (not to take anything away from Prunella, It is a great anti-viral herb or it wouldn't be a part of this formula)

    What really surprised me were the results I found with Hepatitis C ! The viral markers on many patients I used this on went so low they were considered "in remission." I watched the markers substantially go down on an Aids patient also. Anyway, to say the least, this is great stuff!

    The herbs in this are Desert Skullcap leaves, Osha Root, Prunella Vulgaris, and a hard working Chinese herb "trio" of Jin Qian Cao, Da Qing Ye, and Mu Dan Pi.

    Skullcap, used mostly in nervous tension, is a very strong anti viral plant! I have read in medical books about Dr. Van Deveer successfully curing the Rabies Virus in the late 1700's in both animals and men with the use of skullcap leaves. Many books now state that this is a myth but Dr Van Deveer apparently had enough proof to get written up in the newly formed “M.D.A.” literature inBoston with many cures on record. There has to be at least some fact in this. Would I use it if I had rabies? I would get the vaccine and use both, but if for some reason, It was imposable to get the vaccine, you bet I would use Scullcap! (along with the other herbs in Viral Defense)

    We are very proud of this hard working formula and what we have seen it do! I strongly recommend combining this with "Strong Defense" for back up from the immune system!

    One needs to take 1-2 teaspoons of this strong Tincture/Extract 2 times daily. Larger dose can be used for first 2-3 days or for long term if necessary (eg: a very large person)

    All statements at this site have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any of our products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease according to the FDA.

  17. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    The thing about sulfur is more involved than not being able to metabolize the sulfur content in broccoli. We need to properly metabolize cysteine in order for our bodies to use sulfur. I most likely have more than one weakness, break or whatever in my detox pathway(s). I also believe one of my malfunctions is the same as your neighbor's son. It involves my not being able detox sugar and alcohol. I also have a problem with phenols. Mint is a phenol. I experimented with this the other nite to make sure. I took a menthol cough drop. Five to ten minutes later I got a headache in my right temple.
    [This Message was Edited on 02/29/2008]
  18. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    I'm gonna' try and explain this correctly. So forgive me if I don't and feel free to ask more questions. Unless the phenols are concentrated I wouldn't know that they are affecting me. And I belive "the dose makes the poison". I was told that people with chemical sensitivities were sensitive to terpenes which is also in a lot of plants. A year and a half ago I took a big whiff of Rosemary to see if it affected me. It did. I now know it was the phenols, not terpenes that caused my reaction. I've also had 3 bouts of "cluster headaches". The first time was from aspartame in 2004. I now know this was because of the Phenylalanine in aspartame. Last summer I had my second round. This time they were caused by menthol (that strong smell) in Flexall muscle rub. Thr third time was 3 weeks ago when I had the flu. This time they were caused by a combination of aspirin, Mucinex, and The Bisphenol A in the plastic bottle bottle of Sprite I drank. And, by the way, I'm sitting here patting myself on the back for figuring out exactly what caused my unbearable headaches.
  19. munch1958

    munch1958 Member
  20. tansy

    tansy New Member

    May Protect Against Bladder Cancer

    ScienceDaily (Feb. 29, 2008)

    A concentrated extract of freeze dried broccoli sprouts cut development of bladder tumors in an animal model by more than half, according to a report in the March 1 issue of Cancer Research.

    This finding reinforces human epidemiologic studies that have suggested that eating cruciferous vegetables like broccoli is associated with reduced risk for bladder cancer, according to the study's senior investigator, Yuesheng Zhang, MD, PhD, professor of oncology at Roswell Park Cancer Institute.

    "Although this is an animal study, it provides potent evidence that eating vegetables is beneficial in bladder cancer prevention," he said.

    There is strong evidence that the protective action of cruciferous vegetables derives at least in part from isothyiocyanates (ITCs), a group of phytochemicals with well-known cancer preventive activities."The bladder is particularly responsive to this group of natural chemicals," Zhang said. "In our experiments, the broccoli sprout ITCs after oral administration were selectively delivered to the bladder tissues through urinary excretion."

    Other cruciferous vegetables with ITCs include mature broccoli, cabbage, kale, collard greens and others. Broccoli sprouts have approximately 30 times more ITCs than mature broccoli, and the sprout extract used by the researchers contains approximately 600 times as much.

    Although animals that had the most protection against development of bladder cancer were given high doses of the extract, Zhang said humans at increased risk for this cancer likely do not need to eat huge amounts of broccoli sprouts in order to derive protective benefits.

    "Epidemiologic studies have shown that dietary ITCs and cruciferous vegetable intake are inversely associated with bladder cancer risk in humans. It is possible that ITC doses much lower than those given to the rats in this study may be adequate for bladder cancer prevention," he said.

    Zhang and his colleagues tested the ability of the concentrate to prevent bladder tumors in five groups of rats. The first group acted as a control, while the second group was given only the broccoli extract to test for safety. The remaining three groups were given a chemical, N-butyl-N-(4-hydroxybutyl) nitrosamine (BBN) in drinking water, which induces bladder cancer. Two of these groups were given the broccoli extract in diet, beginning two weeks before the carcinogenic chemical was delivered.

    In the control group and the group given only the extract, no tumors developed, and there was no toxicity from the extract in the rats.

    About 96 percent of animals given only BBN developed an average of almost two tumors each of varying sizes. By comparison, about 74 percent of animals given a low dose of the extract developed cancer, and the number of tumors per rat was 1.39. The group given the high dose of extract had even fewer tumors. About 38 percent of this high-dose group developed cancer, and the average number of tumors per animal was only .46 and, unlike the other animals, the majority were very small in size.

    The study was funded by the Vital Vegetables Research Program of Australia and New Zealand, the National Cancer Institute and the Roswell Park Alliance Foundation.