Interesting Article on CFS-Shape of Red Blood Cells (Hypercoag?)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by TerriM, Mar 10, 2003.

  1. TerriM

    TerriM New Member

    Hey guys . . . dont't know if you've already seen this, but it sounds like this relates to hypercoagulation . . . Terri

    Blood cells may hold key to fatigue syndrome, doctor says.


    The shape of red blood cells could hold the key to treating chronic fatigue syndrome, a Dunedin doctor believes.

    Lack of knowledge about the syndrome's causes and changes it made in people's bodies had probably been the greatest obstacle to developing a treatment, Les Simpson said.

    After discovering chronic fatigue sufferers' blood did not filter easily, he examined the shape of their red blood cells more closely.

    He found red blood cells in humans and animals had six different shapes but people suffering from chronic fatigue had more flat shaped cells than usual.

    When feeling well, they had the same number as anyone else, Dr Simpson said in the magazine New Zealand Family Physician.

    Dr Simpson studied 2200 blood samples from people with chronic fatigue in four countries.

    The shape changes "were not a benign event", he said.

    Flat red blood cells did not flow as easily through capillaries (minute blood vessels). That meant having too many flat cells reduced the flow of oxygen and nutrients, carried in blood, to body tissues.

    Sufferers of chronic fatigue could have widespread problems including difficulty remembering things, tiredness and intolerance to exercise.

    Because treatment could not increase the diameter of capillaries, treatment of chronic fatigue syndromes should probably focus on increasing the flexibility of flat red blood cells, Dr Simpson said.

    Evening primrose oil or fish oil could help the cells become more flexible by increasing the fluidity of the cells' membranes, but the oils did not help everybody, Dr Simpson said.



  2. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Every little piece of the puzzle helps. This is very interesting.

    Love, Mikie
  3. layinglow

    layinglow New Member

    Terrim--I found this article (I believe it's where you got your info) and it also mentions B-12. I have just started B-12 injections 8 days ago, and take them daily at home. My exhaustion/fatigue has been phenomenally reduced! I am very pleased, and feel so much better! So just wanted to add that one treatment he suggests...is B12 Therapy
    LL

    Red Blood Cells and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
    ImmuneSupport dot com

    01-15-2003

    By Jule Klotter
    (Townsend Letter, issue: November 2001)
    According to an article by Maryann Spurgin, Ph.D., New Zealand researcher Dr. L.O. Simpson has theorized that myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), also known as Chronic Fatigue Immune Deficiency Syndrome (CFIDS), results from "insufficient oxygen availability due to impaired capillary blood flow."

    Simpson attributes the impaired capillary blood flow to smaller-than-usual capillaries and to the presence of abnormal red blood cells (nondiscocytes).

    In healthy people, most red blood cells are smooth-surfaced and concave-shaped with a donut-like appearance. These discocytes have extra membranes in the concave area that give them the flexibility needed to move through capillary beds, delivering oxygen, nutrients, and chemical messengers to tissue and removing metabolic waste, such as carbon dioxide and lactic acid.

    Abnormal red blood cells lack flexibility that allow them to enter tiny capillaries. These nondiscocytes are characterized by a variety of irregularities, including surface bumps or ridges, a cup or basin shape, and altered margins instead of the round shape found in discocytes.

    When people become ill or physically stressed, a higher percentage of discocytes transform into the less flexible nondiscocytes. Simpson says that the blood samples of marathon runners show a higher percentage of cup-shaped nondiscocytes (somatocytes) after a race. This higher percentage soon reverts to pre-race, normally-low levels of abnormally-shaped cells. Similarly, researchers found that the percentage of nondiscocytes in people with a viral head cold peaked on the fifth day and declined by the tenth day.

    Simpson found that people with ME/CFIDS have higher percentages of nondiscocytes than people with other chronic illnesses, such as Lupus, multiple sclerosis, Huntington's disease, malaria, and diabetes. In addition, the percentages of cup-shaped somatocytes in ME/CFIDS patients can remain high for months, inhibiting blood flow.

    Simpson believes that, in ME/CFIDS, either the mechanism whereby red blood cells revert to the discocyte form is hampered for some reason or that whatever triggered the red blood cells to transform into nondiscocytes remains in effect, albeit unidentified. Ms. Spurgin notes that red blood cell morphology is also affected by toxic chemicals, providing a possible link between ME/CFIDS, environmental illness and multiple chemical sensitivity, and Gulf War Syndrome.

    Simpson found that vitamin B12 injections reduced nondiscocyte levels in some ME patients. These patients also experienced symptomatic improvement. Patients whose nondiscocyte levels remain unaffected by the B12 injections noticed no improvement. Research with diabetic patients found that omega-3 fatty acids can also reduce nondiscocyte levels and improve capillary flow; and omega-6, in the form of evening primrose oil, has improved blood filterability in cigarette smokers.
  4. John29414

    John29414 New Member

    Try researching this form of b-12 oral. In some Japanese research it shows that it has caused remylinization in mice and also in humans. They were at 60mg/day. I just started mine, after taking B-Complex injections.

    God Bless;
    John
  5. TerriM

    TerriM New Member

    this is actually a different article . . . I didn't get this article off of immune support website . . . yes, I would love to see my red blood cells right now. Again, thanks for the info. Terri
  6. pfranson

    pfranson New Member

    Sorry to get into this discussion so late. My wife (a CFIDS patient) and I went to see a lecture by Dr. Simpson in 1999 when he was conducting his world-wide search for subjects. He made a VERY convincing case for his hypothesis. He took blood samples from several affected as well as healthy subjects, then (for a very small fee) offered to write a report about what he found when studying the samples.

    My flat count was very low (less than 2 percent) while my wife's approached 30 percent. His comment in the report was that it surprised him that she had put on her questionnaire that she felt only "slightly" not well that day.

    Dr. Simpson is a BIG on EPO. His suggestion to my wife was 8 x 500mg capsules interspersed throughout the day.
    [This Message was Edited on 05/01/2003]
  7. tansy

    tansy New Member

    These were found in my blood in the early years of my illness. Several doctors told me this is what they would expect to find in view of my symtpoms. This was over 18 years ago.

    I've been using fatty acids (EPO and flax) for years and now methylcobalanin. The number of these mishaped cells is now far less.

    Don't know if they're connected but since what I'm taking is being recommended it might be worth looking into these supplements.

    Cheers

    Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 05/01/2003]
  8. tuffelle

    tuffelle New Member

    Just wondering about this.....
  9. ArrowRoot

    ArrowRoot New Member

    You can probably still have Dr. Simpson test your blood for you. I had it many years ago and found I had a very high percentage of irregular and 'blasted' red blood cells. I read about the research in the FM Support newsletter and wrote for info. They sent all the stuff I needed, I had a clinic draw the blood and I sent it off it New Zealand. Think total cost for everything was about $40. US.

    Here is a link to get you started if you want your blood tested. It is an old page, but the links and email is probably still good. If not, a google search should find new stuff.

    http://www.voxau.com/fib/fibro/80fm.htm#rbcr
  10. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Look for an alternative practitioner who does live blood analysis by dark electron microscopy and you will be able to see your blood and get an explanation of what is being seen, and it should not cost too much either. Many chiropracters are certified in this, if you don't have Naturopaths around. My first visit was $125, and subsequent visits were $30.
    The first time I had it done, 85% of my red cells looked like Pac Man had taken a bite out of them and I was told it was amazing that I had walked in under my own power. The practitioner put me on a strict no sugar diet, UltraClear for my liver, and fresh probiotics delivered to my home packed in ice. After 2 1/2 months of that, there were no abnormal cells.
    This practitioner told me she won't work with anyone who "does sugar" anymore than she will work with someone who does heroin. She said you can take all the supplements you wish and it is a complete waste of money if you are taking refined sugars.
    Don't know if it's true, but it sure looked like it on my blood samples.
    Klutzo
  11. TerriM

    TerriM New Member

    Is a naturapath and an osteopath similar? If not, can you advise on how to find a naturapath? Thanks! Terri
  12. Solstice

    Solstice New Member

    Excellent information! Thanks for sharing this.

    I see a doctor who does a live cell blood analysis, as Klutzo mentioned. My doc calls it a dark fleld. I know my cells have looked like this frequently. But she (my doc) has never described how this affects us, as this article does. It is so helpful to know what is going on. And it sounds like the oils, B12, and as Klutzo said, probiotics will help this situation.

    Laying Low, I am so glad to hear that the B12 is helping you! I too have had good results with getting the shots in the last month. How much are you taking?

    John, I am curious what is the diffence between getting the B complex and the B12 shots.....I mean difference in the results?

    You folks are wonderful teachers! Thank You once again!

    Solstice
  13. tomf

    tomf New Member

    Any explanation of how this can relate to the sudden onset and then gradual improvement of CFS, which is the characteristic in most cases?
    Most cases of CFS have a sudden onset and then overtime at least some gradual improvement of function. Using myself for example CFS became full blown in one day after excercise. So this theory would claim the change in red blood cell shape would have to happen almost instantly?
    [This Message was Edited on 05/02/2003]
  14. sujay

    sujay New Member

    I've been treating CFS & FMS patients for years, and I'm convinced a lot of them have a variant of sticky-blood syndrome (or Aniti-phospholipid Antibody Syndrome). I think it's often triggered by a stealth pathogen. Hemex Labs in Arizona has a good web site where you (or your doctor) could get more info. We've all got to keep looking for answers.