intestinal permeability!

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by paulalbert, Jul 26, 2003.

  1. paulalbert

    paulalbert New Member

    Hello friends,

    I've been doing some reading on intestinal permeability also known as leaky gut syndrome.

    Here's the theory: an imbalance of good and bad gastrointestinal flora leads to intestinal permeability which causes all kinds of immunological fireworks. Basically, bad stuff sneaks its way in through the holes in the inflammed intestinal tract, thus causing havoc with the immune system.

    The link below says that 60% of CFS patients have "overgrowth of streptococcal/enterococcal species."

    (Edited to remove URL)

    This being the case, I can't help but wonder:

    1. To what extent is this theory accepted as a CAUSE of CFIDS/FMS?

    2. Why don't more CFIDS/FMS patients get tests done for intestinal permeability such as the one offered by Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratory?

    3. Has any out there had any success "rebuilding their intestinal flora"? Which products did you use? How long did it take? (I have been looking for a standard protocol but I am not finding it.)

    Paul

    p.s. Those looking for more info, should check out (Edited to remove URL)

  2. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Welcome to our board. You are new, so I doubt that you have read the board rules yet.

    We are not allowed to post URL's here and I have removed them from your post.

    Love, Mikie
  3. rdthewave

    rdthewave New Member

    I had the test done by Great Smokies and did have some permeabiity problems.......I'm going to go back to the manual I have from Great Smokies to see what they say to do. Off the top of my head, probiotics are always good to take......L-glutamine helps bluild up the intestinal walls.....I've heard of some people trying primal defense product. Diet cannot be overstated......stay away from Sugar, processed grains.......basically anything that is in a package. We all know by now though that a product that was so beneficial to some may be hazardous to others. But yu already know that from experience. I read some of your other posts.......I am not a big believer in taking alot of supplements.......I think it puts more of a dross on your system than anything. Over the last 7 yrs I have spent literally thousands of dollars on supplements......it seemed like the times that I felt better were the times I was hardly taking anything. Diet is the one thing we do have control over........I'm still finding it hard to stay on a good diet though.

    Tammy
  4. paulalbert

    paulalbert New Member

    Thanks for the feedback, Tammy.

    I'm not sure if this is standard, but one place I looked said that one ought to first clean out the bad stuff and then repopulate it with the good stuff.

    The Primal Defense product looked exactly like the kind I am looking for the second part, the repopulation. Its site says that a good way to test the efficacy of a product is to leave some of the bacteria in some milk. It should curdle within 48 hours. Oooh, nasty!

    I don't know if the literature you have from Great Smokies makes any further recommendations. If it does, I certainly would be interested to know!

    Paul
    [This Message was Edited on 07/26/2003]
  5. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    I'm one who has this, & horrible food allergies as a result----just found out about this & started treating it about 6-7 months ago. Thank goodness for a crackerjack allergist from not-the-typical-school, who did very comprehensive testing (including Great Smokies, & ELISA food panel). Paul, I now believe I had been heading down this path for about 2 decades----even though I only have had FM for 4 years, I think the leaky gut & resulting food allergies started long ago.

    You ask a great question----can it be the CAUSE of FM? I stop just short of saying it's the actual cause; I'm not a doctor or a researcher (except to the extent that we who have FM or CFS ALL become researchers) so I can't answer this. But I will say that, for me, it is definitely a HUGE perpetuating factor that has, at the very least, aggravated FM for me & exascerbated its symptoms.

    I have been on a rotation diet laid out for me by my allergist's nutritionist: no dairy, wheat/gluten, soy, eggs, and a few other things. You would not believe how allergic I had become to these things, my numbers on milk & wheat, especially, were off the charts, and I never had a clue! Because I experienced FM pain & fatigue....not stomach cramps, or hives, or things I THOUGHT were indicators of food allergies. I take Jarro-dophillus probiotics religiously, digestive enzymes, & other supps that I KNOW I need (in other words, I'm not just guessing) because my doctor tested me for that stuff, too.

    The bad news----no, the FM is not gone.
    The good news----it's much better! The fatigue is WAY better, and many of my other FM symptoms are still there, but bother me much less. When I have flares (and I'm kind of in one now) they don't seem as bad at all. So I do think this protocol is making me---slowly---healthier. It took me YEARS to get this sick, I figure, it's going to be a long road back. But at least I feel like I'm on it now.

    Hope this helps!

    Pam

  6. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    ....I drink as much really good quality spring water as I can jam down my throat in a day! I think that really has helped, too.

    Pam
  7. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    dear tammy: dr. cheney my CFS dr. and last time i talked my allergy dr. into ordering the ALLCAT test the one cheney likes its the delayed IGG masked allergens reliable?? i don't know AMTL corp in FLA does it, i've asked there staff nutritionist some questoins, never responded,

    for example, i've had 4 of them over 3 yrs. they rate red severe orange categoory moderate yellow milk green negative and you give you a sample 4 daay rotation, i've found what happends is i end up jucing or eating the same foods so much that on the next test i'm allergic to them,

    also, on a couple of them in the RED category, were foods that i wasn't eating THEY coudln't have been FIXED allergies causse on the other test before they were NEG.

    Go figure,

    So what is the Great smokies test IGG delayed onset or immedieate reaction what is the elisa test

    What i think of food allergies is of course we know most of them are not fixed but cause of our leaky gut which i have bad,

    unfortunatley i'm so sick wiht CFIDS and etc etc. i react to about everything including becoming senstized to the aspergillus based plant dig. enzymes,

    and i've asked the 2 big name enzyme manufact. and on this board and foudn guess what no other source than pancreatin pork or beef which i'm also somewhat senstivites on ALLCAT test

    Could you tell me more about elisa and G. smokies does medicare pay??

    thansk paul mark in Ky
  8. paulalbert

    paulalbert New Member

    Good stuff, Pam.

    I am starting to think that at least in my particular case the CFS is related to and/or exacerbated by a food allergy. How do I know this?

    The last three days I've been eating only those foods which don't render me completely tired-- cheese, bread, turkey, and peanut butter. (I know cheese and bread are the first couple foods most people cut out, but I guess I am something of an anomaly.)

    The result: I DEFINITELY feel better. I did one half hour of light yoga this evening, the first such activity in two months!

    Anyway, I am thinking about seeing an allergist soon enough to do as you have done, Pam. Better, I think, to have an allergist walk me through the process of rebuilding the intestinal flora.

    Paul
    [This Message was Edited on 07/27/2003]