Intravenous Vitamin C Lyme

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by Slayadragon, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Hi All,

    Has anyone here heard anything about using intravenous vitamin C to treat lyme?

    I started using IV's of Vitamin C to help my body to detoxify from mold. It's worked better than I ever would have imagined.

    Most of the time, the IV's have made me feel better immediately, with no intensification/herx/die-off/whatever reaction.

    However, on a couple of occasions I've gone up to a higher dosage (50cc rather than 25 cc). I then got herx symptoms that were exactly like the ones I got on doxycyline/minocin, except not as overpowering.

    (They were a lot different qualitatively than the ones on the antiviral.)

    Vitamin C in high enough dosages is indeed supposed to kill pathogens. Apparently you have to get to a certain level in a single dose though.

    I personally feel more comfortable using Vitamin C to kill lyme than antibiotics, and not just because I tend to respond poorly to drugs in general, am prone to wholly debilitating candida problems (causing inner ear issues), and am concerned about resistance.

    I also hope that the Vitamin C would remove the lyme toxins at the same time it's killing the lyme. (Lyme toxins are very similar to mold toxins and can be problematic for those who don't have the innate capacity to expel them.)

    I am aware that some people have used that Salt/Vitamin C protocol, and that a few report success. A couple also report disasters. I don't know if the underlying mechanisms are the same though, but at least I don't seem to be headed for a disaster on this.

    (I also take 30-40 g of vitamin C per day in oral form. This is a lot more than is on the salt/C protocol, though maybe the salt changes the biochemistry somehow to make it work more intensely.)

    Note that 25-50 cc of Vitamin C is a high dose for an IV. Myer's Cocktails include maybe 5-10% as much, and are supposed to be for a different purpose (more supportive rather than addressing toxins/pathogens).

    Has anyone seen anything on this topic anywhere? Surely I'm not the first person in the world who's pursued it.

    Thanks!

    Best, Lisa
  2. victoria

    victoria New Member

    (I posted this to your question on the CF/FM board too:)

    I don't know anyone personally who's tried this, but did a quick google search... I don't know if you ran across this link?

    communicationagents.com/chris/2005/09/22/lyme_disease_wiped_out_by_vitamin_c.htm


    If you decide to try this, do you have a willing doc in line, or will you have to find one? Please keep us posted!

    You may want to look into the MMS too, btw, as at least it would be cheaper.

    Thanks,
    Victoria
  3. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Hi Victoria,

    My Indianapolis doctor (Dr. Guyer) was the person who recommended the Vitamin C IV's for the mold toxicity.

    I've not found anything about using this for mold toxicity (or any kind toxicity) anywhere else either. It seems to be working great for me though, and he says that it's been extremely effective for other patients with toxicity also.

    When looking to get the IV's here in Chicago, I found a doctor (Dr. Berndtson) who agreed to do them for me in "slow push" form (since he didn't have the facility set up for a drip). He suggested we experiment with a higher dose since the literature suggested that it would kill pathogens.

    At first I was displeased by the moderately big die-off I got as a result, since my goal at the time was to get rid of toxins. Now that several more weeks have passed and the toxins are starting to be a little bit more under control, using this to address the pathogens has become rather intriguing.

    Both Dr. G and Dr. B are more than happy to keep treating me in this manner. Neither of them seems terribly enthusiastic about long courses of antibiotics and both tend to take as much of a "natural" approach as possible (while still prescribing drugs as needed). They also both agree that lyme is a big issue for some people and likely a moderate issue for me, and thus do think it's worth addressing in conjunction with a very multi-faceted approach.

    I'm presuming I have some lyme due to the die-off, even though neither of my doctors has been inclined to the order the IGeneX test.

    I actually think that pretty much all CFS patients have lyme, and how much it matters depends on whether the body can expel the toxins, whether co-infections are present, and maybe what strain of lyme it is. I see no reason why I'd be different, though the fact that I'd have gotten so much health improvement---to maybe 80% consistent functioning---without touching it makes me think it's not a hugely debilitating problem for me. Just my opinion.

    So anyway, I will continue with this and report back on what happens. I'm vaguely excited about the approach, actually. It's strange that no one else even seems to have tried it.

    I wonder what these fancy LLMD's would say.

    Best, Lisa


    **

    This part of the article is interesting. 100 g is 200 cc, which is an extremely high dose. 100 cc is used for cancer patients, but other than that I've not heard of anyone going higher. It's an interesting thought to consider though.

    "The woman was immediately infused with 100 grams of Vitamin C and within just two hours of treatment here husband reported that she looked 50 to 60 percent better. Over the next two days she received five more 50 gram infusions of Vitamin C, and by hour 72 she was completely well. That was nearly two years ago. She has since suffered no relapses, nor is there any indication of a chronic infection."

  4. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    If I suspected babesia, I most certainly would go to a LLMD to pursue treatment. Ignoring that seems as dangerous as ignoring malaria.

    I don't have any symptoms of that though. Thank God.

    I personally think that CFS is (for me) a combination of many components with an underlying cause of toxicity. Mold poison obviously is a huge factor. Other toxicity seems to be really important.

    Lyme toxins could be part of it, though I'm not sure whether or not my body has the capacity to expel the lyme poison on its own. Hopefully the genetic test that I am planning to take will allow me to figure that out.

    I tend to think that almost all CFS patients have the same group of pathogens (herpes-family viruses, Cpn, mycoplasma, lyme, candida). My belief is that once my system is strengthened as a result of addressing the toxins, it will be able to eliminate the other stuff on its own or with a little bit of help.

    The main reason I am interested in killing whatever lyme exists in my body now is because I am afraid that it may be producing biotoxins that are impeding my progress on that front. My VCS scores suggest that biotoxins are not as big of an issue as they were for me, but that doesn't mean that they're not still impeding my progress.

    Note that I've had this conversation about the IGeneX test several times on this list. Based on my die-off reactions and what seems to be the presence of lyme in almost all CFS sufferers, I'm assuming that I have some and my doctors agree....thus making doing the test pointless. That doesn't mean that it's the number one problem on my list to address though.

    I also think that it's important for lyme sufferers not to think they've found "the answer" as a result of an LLMD diagnosis. There's no reason why people with lyme disease can't have mold toxicity too. And those people who are really sick from lyme and have a hard time tolerating antibiotics (as I did) may be especially likely to have the double whammy of mold and lyme poisoning.

    If mold is even a small problem, getting better will likely require addressing it first.

    Just my opinion though.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/17/2008]