Iodine and Fibromyalgia esp. Mary (mbofov)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by IanH, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    In the article by Dr. flechas on Oxytocin

    also on the PH frontpage.

    Also here

    He also discusses the importance of iodine in FM.

    I suspect that what is happening with both oxytocin and iodine therapy is that the micro-circulation is improved and the A-V shunting which is known to be a correlate of pain/neuropathy in FM is being reduced so improving the micro-circulation, in turn this would reduce neuropathic pain, muscle fatigue and muscle cramping. Over time this could also influence energy levels via decreased muscle fatigue.

    I also suspect that some of the immune system pathology in FM is caused by the very same A-V shunting and lowered micro-circulation because this affect on micro-circulation will cause constant "minor" damage in the peripheral tissues provoking an immune response. In addition the removal of toxins from muscle tissue and other tissues would be impaired. Obviously this can't be the full story because Treg production is affected in FM as it is in ME/CFS and changes to micro-circulation does not explain the effect of Treg production.

    However I see a recent article showing how Bcells are a major influence on Treg production by the Thymus. The thymus is a gland which is markedly affected by reduction in micro-circulation, similarly to the way breast tissue is affected. In this case the thymus may not be getting the required delivery of Bcells and so inturn the output of Tregs is reduced. Oxytocin is known to improve glandular micro-circulation not only to the mammary glands but to all glandular tissue including lymphatics.

    Very interesting indeed.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
    fight4acure likes this.
  2. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Ian - this is very interesting. (FWIW, I don't have FM or any pain associated with CFS, "just" crashing, post-exertional "malaise" and weak immune system, and hypothyroid, a few other things.)

    I have been taking iodine for quite awhile - I've read how important it is, and not just for the thyroid. I've read where iodine can help prevent breast cancer.

    What is A-V shunting?

    It does seem like FM patients and doctors should be giving oxytocin a try for pain - I certainly would if it were an issue for me -

  3. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    Remember that more than 70% of iodine is outside of the thyroid. It is particularly important for vascular and epithelial function. In particular, and in relation to inflammation, iodide combines with the DHA and EPA to enable the inflammatory function of these omega FAs. Iodine is critical to thymus function, particularly in relation to the production of Tregs and in turn the regulation of immune response. In this way it may be vital to the modulation of immune response in ME/CFS and FM.

    The recommended daily allowance is probably well below the true requirements.
  4. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    Sorry missed your question about AV shunting.

    AV shunting is a process where the arteriolar entry to the capillaries is bypassed into what a called Arteriolar-Venous shunts, which are tiny vessels (but wider than the capillaries) to detour the blood away from the capillaries into the venules/veins. This occurs for "natural" reasons, for example to avoid heat loss in the peripheral blood on a very cold day. (Your hands then get cold but your body heat is protected). There are many examples where the blood is quickly shunted like this.

    It has been noted that these shunts can also "develop" in response to pathology. It appears that people vary in the degree of AV shunting, some have extensive shunts available others have few. Fibromyalgia is a pathology which has been shown to have these "pathological" shunts. In fact it is the innervation of the shunts which is abnormal causing higher than normal dilation of the shunts. ME/CFS has not been investigated but remember that about half of people with FM actually have ME/CFS.

    If the studies by Simpson et al are correct, and it appears they are then red blood cells are being made abnormally in ME/CFS. This abnormality results in two changes:
    1. Reduced deformability. RBC's must deform to get through the narrow capillaries (Also some people do have narrower capillaries and depend very much on this ability of RBC's to deform). Remember that the "toroidal" shape of a RBC is what allows the deformation. Stiff or flattened RBC's do not deform much and often cannot get through the capillaries also blocking the way for others. This is bad news for O2 delivery and for ROS, NOS and Calcium clearance.
    2. Reduced deformability is also associated with agglutination (probably because the same change to the RBC membrane results in more sticky properties). Agglutination means gluing together of the cells to form tiny lumps of cells. Obviously these cannot fit through the capillaries.

    It is known that such problems: narrow capillaries, low deformability of the RBC and agglutination result in excess calcium which results in many different cellular abnormalities, in particular mitochondrial membrane depolarization. This results in energy problems, pain and toxicity depending on the person.

    A lot of shunting would be a problem but according to Simpson it may well be that the problem is narrow capillaries and abnormal RBCs.
    I suspect that (in ME) a high degree of shunting results in lower BP and poor shunting results in higher BP but both situations result in abnormal microcirculation. This is most probably cause of neuropathy in FM just as it is in T2D.
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  5. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Thanks Ian for all the info!