Is CFIDS an Infection?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by greatgran, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. greatgran

    greatgran Member

    I have noticed on some of my blood work that all the doctors say are normal , there is evidence of chronic infection.. I was going over some of my labs for the past couple of years and noticed my white count, though not elevated is in the high norm range of 9.5.. The Metabolic Profile I noticed the Globulin has been in the high range around 4.4 , norms are 2.3-3.5.. Not that high but I did read that the elevatoins of these show a chronic infection..

    We talk about Viruses and yes viruses are infections but how do you tell if its viral or bacterial?

    Just curious and I feel I have had a chronic sinus problem for years.. Hopeful thinking but thinking if I could ever get the sinuses clear maybe I would be ok.. Even though I do not have the typical sinus infection symptoms.. No colored mucus or fever ...

    A mystery... so much I don't understand..

  2. roge

    roge Member

    high odds that me/cfs is caused by a chronic infection

    typically WBC will be low with a chronic infection and high with an acute one.

    I have a low WBC and partucularly my lymphocytes are very low.

    neutrophils (type of wbc) are generally affected by bacteria and lymphocytes by viruses.

    my me/cfs started with a sinus infection. after trying many many things for years , my sinusitis are finally 50% better due to no dairy and gluten and using epicor supplement. my secretory iga count was very low (main immune defence on mucosal tract) and epicor claims it can increase Siga count. could be some other factors that might have helped my sinuses as i do take a lot of things, but i think the epicor and avoiding my food intolerances has helped the most.


  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    Hi gg - I have always said that the day the doctors can finally cure my problem with sinus issues will be the day that my CFS will also be cured. I'm sure in my case that the two are related.
  4. greatgran

    greatgran Member

    Roge: I know when my sinuses aren't acting up I feel so much better... Including my depression/anxiety. I have tried so many things seems nothing works for long.

    Tiger: I feel the same when my sinuses are cured so will my cfs. What are your sinus symptoms and treatments you have tried?

  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    gg, I have been put on antibiotics at least 50 times by various doctors. One doctor had me on Biaxin for a couple of months sure that this would do the trick. And she was the specialist that other ENTs referred patients to when they couldn't find any answers. She also did a procedure where they pierce a hole from one side of the sinuses into the other to help with drainage, however, much to her surprise nothing drained out.

    I've done anti-fungal drugs in case it was a fungal infection; it wasn't.

    I've done the neti pot on and off over the past five years; that doesn't help.

    I've changed my diet, trying to eliminate any foods that are known to cause sinus issues; that didn't help.

    I've done an elimination diet because a ND thought it was a candida issue; that didn't help.

    I've done supplements, including Epicor, as some people have had great success there; not me!

    I've done probiotics including homemade yogurt, homemade kefir, and store bought probiotic capsules; no help there.

    I've seen six ENTs and had six CT scans. My sinuses are almost perfect according to one ENT (also a specialist) and the last time I had CT scans done the hospital pulled all my previous scans to see if something was missed, and there is absolutely no change from the first scan till the last.

    As to my symptoms, I get a headache right between the eyes, my left eye constantly feels like someone is pulling on it, the sinuses on the left side of my face feel swollen, my nose gets very drippy (clear fluid), I get very tired and could sleep 24 hours around the clock, and I usually feel like I am running a temperature even though I am not. This can last anywhere from a few days to weeks. I can go through this three or four times in a year for several years, and then can go for a couple of years without a single episode, only for it to start all over again.

    This all started with two infected teeth. I originally had root canals done and then in desperation I had the two teeth pulled. I even had a third tooth next to them pulled as I was always having problems with this root canaled tooth. I might as well have kept the teeth because having them removed didn't resolve the sinus issues. At the time there were so many people on the CFS group that were positive that CFS stemmed from hidden tooth infections in root canaled teeth. Isn't it insane some of the things we will do to try and get better!!!

    When my sinuses aren't acting up, my CFS doesn't feel any better, unfortunately. The drop-dead exhaustion and PEM are still there. I have never had a remission from those symptoms, ever.
  6. simonedb

    simonedb Member

    I didnt see antivirals on your list?
    are you testing for xmrv? Dr Jamie Deckhoff and daugher are getting better on antiviral cocktails, if you have xmrv one wouldnt expect you to get better on any of the above....... but thanks for sharing, its good info. I just had a root canal on Fri so I was particularly interested in what you wrote.....crossing my fingers, its my 2nd one, my first one caused me on and off headaches for a couple years that were killer, not sure why it stpped, perhaps my body cleared some of a possible infection with it finally. This tooth Fri hadnt hurt until they drilled and cut it back to get at a cavity under a crown and while I had the temp crownon it started to hurt bad from the trauma of the work I thought but i went back and he said I now needed a root canal so I went for it in the pain of the moment and it did get rid of the tooth pain, just hoping those headaches like last time dont kick in....
  7. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    Hi Simone - I have asked doctors about antivirals, however, they tell me that they would not work for sinus issues and refuse to prescribe them.

    I don't know if I have XMRV and at present there is no testing available here in Canada. Until XMRV is proven beyond a doubt to be the cause of CFS, and there is a proven treatment, I wouldn't even consider taking antivirals.
  8. greatgran

    greatgran Member

    Well, I can relate as I have done most of everything you mentioned.. My last attempt was grapefruit extract in a neti-pot with saline rinse.. Did it do a number on my ears.. was so off balance and a vertigo like feeling. Then tried in in a spray bottle , didn't work..

    I have a lot of congestion, headache between eyebrows, body aches, flu like feeling but the most disabling thing is the darn weird head feeling, its like the inside of my head is full, achy, vision blurry .. Hard to describe, when this happens I am bed ridden.. The last doc I went to said it was how the cfs affected me.. My weakest part , my head.. Its actually like fluid on the brain, I think.. It is so hard to verbally describe the head feeling and the way it impacts the rest of me.
    This is what I call my sinus infection, also a lot of ear and head pressure .. When this happens my anxiety and depression go through the roof..Seems I have had a non stop case for a yr now.. only a few days every now when I don't have this misery, oh, ringing in ears 24/7 and now at night I can feel my heart beating in my ears..

    How is your thyroid? I read somewhere that this could be a thyroid issue..

    Can you relate to any of this??

  9. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    I can't use a neti-pot for very long as the water gets in my ears and after a week or so, I end up with ear aches. I haven't tried the grapefruit extract. My understanding is that you always want to make sure the saline water you pour through your sinuses is the same ph as would be found naturally in there. If you don't, you end up damaging the cilia and creating a permanent sinus problem.

    My thyroid is fine. If I go through a list of symptoms, either hyper or hypo, I don't have that many symptoms of a thyroid problem. I know a lot of people believe otherwise, but I just don't believe that CFS and thyroid problems go hand-in-hand.

    I don't get any sensation of having a full head when I go through a sinus infection. For me it is all about sinus swelling between the eyes and the left side of my face. I can't even say that the pain is bad. It feels more like someone is pulling on my eye and lightly pressing on my cheek and side of my nose. The most noticible pain is between my eyes, but then again, it isn't bad enough that I need to take a pain killer for it. I can live with it comfortably. The worst part for me is the drop-dead tiredness and feeling like I am running a fever. I can't function when I have this and end up spending most of the day sleeping. I've always been like that when I am sick whether it be the flu, a cold, or some bug going around - I can't stay awake. I've been like that all of my life, and take after my dad that way. My mom and one sister can be just as sick and don't sleep at all during the day.

    I don't have depression so I can't relate to that. I certainly get discouraged when I go through episode after episode, but I just keep reminding myself that it always does eventually go away and that I have to be patient. Maybe if I had a non-stop case for a year I would feel a lot differently. It's bad enough going through this for a few weeks - I can't imagine an entire year.

    I would definitely keep up with the programme that your ND has you on. You might find that you get some relief, if not from your sinus problems, then from some of your symptoms of CFS. You just have to be patient and give it time as it is not a quick fix.
  10. greatgran

    greatgran Member

    Seems we are in a no win situation.. At least for now..

    God Bless,
  11. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I just posted on another thread (Does this go with FM?) and related my experience when I was referred to an Otoneurologist. Besides what is described below, he also did an extensive hearing test, CAT scan or MRI. He also checked my sinuses.

    An Otoneurologist is a neurologist with additional years of specialized training. They approach dizziness and balance disorders from the brain outward instead of from the ear in toward the brain (as in neurotologists). Like neurologists, they do not perform surgery but can recommend surgical treatment by other specialists.

    Unfortunately, there was not a lot I can do about it and he thought it was part of Fibro. since I had a lot of other tests.

    Good luck.

  12. simpsons

    simpsons Member


    read richvanks post with cheney's feedback in this should explain a bit to you

    in the mean time i use echinacea and or goldenseal as these herbs work the best on these areas many people i know have tried them and had great results some for hayfever some for colds and flu

    in fact this herb has some great research in the lancet and even dr's now realise that it really does work and has good research behind it

    check it out see if you cn take it

    peace l0ve and goodwill
  13. greatgran

    greatgran Member

    Thanks you, I will ck both out.. I think I posted I was taking grapeseed extract but the naturopath had me taking grapefruit extract 2 drops in a 2 oz bottle of saline nasal spray.. Tried the neti-pot first and it plugged up my ears causing vertigo.. Its this darn weird head feeling like a vertigo attack is on the way but seems to stop in its tracks...

    Today I feel like I have a bad case of the flu, body aches and of course the sinus, ear problems.

    I have to go to court this morning...I don't see how I can make it..