Is leaky gut (intestinal permeability) the straw that broke the camels back in cfs/fm?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by ljimbo42, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Most people understand there is a direct link to gastrointestinal symptoms and stress and that stress can cause diarrhea, nausea, heartburn etc. There have been studies done and it is very clear from those studies that stress, weather from work, kids, viral infection, bacterial infection, accident, surgery, etc. causes or worsens leaky gut or intestinal permeability.

    So what are the symptoms of leaky gut? They are fatigue, flu-like symptoms, aches and pains, brain fog, irritable bowel syndrome, allergies, auto-immune disease, anxiety, depression and others. Do these symptoms sound familiar? I can't help but wonder how big a role dysbiosis and leaky gut plays in cfs/fm, I thinks it's HUGE.

    I also wonder if it is leaky gut that develops during a viral or bacterial infection, after an accident or some other stressor that is the ultimate straw that breaks the camels back, and when many of us start to get symptoms of cfs/fm. My own personal experience is that I first was hit with cfs/fm after a bad viral infection when I was 18. I cleaned up my diet some and started to exercise a little after a couple of years and was able to work again, although I never was 100% after that first bout with cfs.

    When I take anti-fungal or anti-biotic supplements all my symptoms get worse, my fatigue, brain fog, fibromyalgia, allergies and flu-like symptoms-all the symptoms of cfs/fm. I am certain that is from killing off bad gut pathogens and the toxins from them "leaking" into my bloodstream. So rate now I am working on re-balancing my intestinal bacteria and healing leaky gut. I think it will go a long way to improving my health. Here is a study, that says coronaviruses (that cause many common colds) and the influenza virus can cause "increased mucosal permeability" also known as leaky gut. Here is the quote-

    Here is the link to it-

    This second study talks about the link of stress causing leaky gut. Here is a quote from the second study-

    Here is the link to this study-

    Maybe leaky gut is the straw that broke the camels back in gulf war syndrome leading to symptoms. Here is a quote from a study linking combat stress and intestinal permeability (leaky gut).

    Here is the link-
    All the best.... Jim
    RadioFM likes this.
  2. Nanie46

    Nanie46 Moderator

    I also think the role of leaky gut is huge in chronic illness in general. Infections, inflammation, adrenal fatigue, food sensitivities and toxins contribute or result, along with so many other things.

    There was a lot of information presented about leaky gut during the online gluten free summit last week. I listened to many wonderful presentations.

    It is so important to heal the gut to heal the illness/symptoms. So many people do not know they have leaky gut though.

    It is not necessary to have intestinal symptoms to have a leaky gut.

    One of the presenters shared this quiz that can help identify people at risk for leaky gut:
  3. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    While "leaky gut" has been shown to exist and to be a source of serum antigens, particularly from bacterial translocation and lipopolysccharides, it is not the only source of problems for the immune system. Also leaky gut can be a transient "state" as in exercise induced leaky gut in healthy athletes. It also occurs in hyperthermia.

    The bacterial population census is itself a major source of immune changes. This does not assume a "leaky gut" but just a normal functioning set of "tight junctions".

    The bacterial wall is established early in life and is created by/and to accommodate an idiopathic population. If this population is disturbed there will be an immune response possibly to "normalize" the population.

    This is a healthy response. When diet is chronically disturbed the population census will change causing dysbiosis. Over time and chronic stress responses the population census can be radically changed resulting in more severe immune responses. This is all aside from the leaky gut.

    You can read something about diet induced dysbiosis here:

    While coronavirus can cause enteric disturbances its main effect appears to be a drop in bacterial defence by a decrease of the defensins. Once these drop gut dysbiosis occurs. Transfer via gut mucosa occurs as well.

    So maintaining a proper idiopathic gut population is essential in health and I am sure it is critical for managing ME and FM. ME in particular is an illness of exaggeration. When any immune disturbance occurs it is prolonged and amplified and that includes the gut. So it is possible and I think highly likely that the gut disturbances in ME and FM are normal but exaggerated by the immune state in ME. So, no I do not think that leaky gut is the cause of ME or FM nor is the gut dysbiosis but these are a major source of symptoms and compound a disease which is neuro-immune. By that I mean that the nervous system also plays a MAJOR part in ME and FM.
  4. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I have been taking probiotics for decades because I learned of Leaky Gut Syndrome. I don't have it, I believe, because I take good care of my gut. It is vital to replace the "good" bacteria when on a round of ABX.

    People with FMS/CFIDS/ME may have LGS but I don't believe there is a cause and effect implied. My specialist once told me that people with our illnesses usually also have some kind of stomach problem, including Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Gut problems should be treated, along with all the other problems we suffer.

    Until we know for sure what causes our illnesses and there is a cure, the best we can do is treat our symptoms and try various treatment options. Until I found the peptide injections (which, BTW, isn't a cure) I made progress one treatment at a time.

    Probiotics are a very important part of any regimen to try to reclaim our health. Leaky Gut Syndrome is a serious condition.

    Love, Mikie
  5. Nanie46

    Nanie46 Moderator

    I think leaky gut is so much more prevalent than people realize. I have been listening to many online presentations about Thyroid health, gluten free living, Leaky gut, etc.

    Healing the gut seems to be the first problem that needs addressed. Intestinal permeability can cause so many varied symptoms, even mental health problems.

    Food proteins are leaking through and people have no idea that they have multiple food sensitivities.

    This subject is not understood by conventional medicine.

    Cyrex labs is supposed to be the best lab for gluten sensitivity testing, cross reacting food testing and autoimmune testing.

    Leaky gut is a very common problem for anyone with any autoimmune illness, and could be the root cause, along with the resulting food sensitivities, of many people's chronic symptoms.

    Of course there can be other contributing factors to chronic symptoms, like untreated infections, toxin exposure, etc.