Is the Lightning Process same thing as reverse therapy?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by SaraL, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. SaraL

    SaraL New Member

    hoping someone from the UK can help me out. I am from the US but from what I gather reverse therapy is a treatment some people try for ME in the UK? From what I was reading under another post about it, it sounds a lot like what the Lightning Process might be--from what I can gather about that process from reading Alex Howard's book Why ME, and from looking over Phil Parker's website.

    The recovery stories there just sound so awesome!! Too good to be true!! I just wondered if the 2 treatments are very similar, and what people know about the Lightning Process--has anyone from the board tried it? I did read one post awhile back by someone saying they had been cured by the Lightning Process, but as far as I could tell they haven't come back to update us as to how they were doing. (Probably if I'd been cured I'd be pretty occupied myself...)

    Thanks for your opinions!!

    LISALOO New Member

    I have no experience with this, but I've read that the Lightning Process is just an improved, faster process of Reverse Therapy. Treatment is shortened.

    I wish I could find treatment here. Or at least find out how it works. It seems to be so secret.
  3. SaraL

    SaraL New Member

    Thanks for answering my post! Thought I would bump it up in case any one else has input.

  4. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    A radical new Bodymind treatment
    What is Reverse therapy?

    Reverse therapy is a Bodymind healing process which teaches people how to 'listen' to symptoms and take corrective action to restore emotional harmony. It is based on the realisation that some illnesses - Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/M.E. included - are actually glandular disorders which are triggered by Bodymind through the Hypothalamus when Bodymind picks up that the individual is at risk of emotional harm from the environment.

    Reverse therapy investigates the link between symptoms and unhealthy situations and works out what Bodymind is prompting the person to do about those situations. This part of our work is called 'working with the symptom-message'.

    Reverse therapy also teaches clients how to raise Body awareness so that symptoms can be noticed and acted upon more quickly and easily. Side by side with this process clients are taught to distinguish between Headmind demands and Bodymind needs, noticing where Headmind tends to block the natural expression of emotion, and then relearning how to express emotions constructively, but also honestly. Throughout, clients are offered support and encouragement while they experiment with tasks designed to restore harmony between Headmind and Bodymind, and Bodymind with the Environment.

    Reverse Therapy is based on the very latest innovations in the related fields of Psychobiology (the study of interactions between 'mind' and body'), Psychoneuroimmunology (which investigates brain, behaviour and Immune System reactions) and Bodymind Healing - a holistic approach to 'dis-ease' which investigates why the organism has been forced to produce symptoms in order to address an imbalance in the individual's life circumstances.
    The main principles and techniques have been put together by Dr John Eaton since 1996, when he first became interested in Bodymind work with symptomatic conditions.

    What is Bodymind?
    Bodymind is the natural intelligence of the body. It exercises a protective function using a complex network of cells, glands and messenger molecules to communicate both to itself and to the person. People can notice when their body is in communication with them by paying attention to changes in the muscles, heart, gut, skin, nerves, mouth, and so on. These changes in the energy of the body are called 'e-motions', or energy-in-motion.

    Examples of e-motion include anger, disgust and joy, as well as much more subtle e-motions that go without a name. E-motions like fear and sadness are used by Bodymind to deliver an opinion about a situation, and to guide the person towards doing something about it (for example, healthy anger guides us towards standing up for our rights). Symptoms are also examples of e-motions and may represent the body's last-ditch attempt to warn the person that he or she is seriously under threat. In every case, Bodymind uses e-motions to restore a balance between the person and the environment. If e-motions result quickly in actions to restore the harmful situation, then the body returns to equilibrium.

    Bodymind’s main purpose is to promote health.
    It does this by monitoring the efficiency of the different systems under its control, maintaining a balance between external demands and internal resources, and using emotions and symptoms as feed-back to warn the person when he or she is under threat.

    Bodymind also actively seeks the maximum of pleasure, satisfaction and personal fulfilment – and symptoms can arise when these are lacking, such as often happens, paradoxically, in states of illness – Bodymind sends further symptoms to warn us not to give up activities that can get us back on the road to recovery!

    How does Reverse Therapy work?
    At the heart of Reverse therapy lie three core processes that complement each other.

    The first is to investigate the history of the symptoms, focusing particularly on what was going on in the client’s life when symptoms first appeared, and also on more recent situations in which symptoms were re-triggered. As this investigation unfolds, clients are taught how to attune to Bodymind communication using simple body-focusing techniques –
    what Reverse therapists call ‘going into your Body’ rather than ‘staying in your Head’.
    In this way, clients develop intuitions about the emotions that Bodymind is encouraging them to express. And that, in turn, leads to the discovery of the ‘symptom message’ – the specific, corrective actions Bodymind is calling for in order to abolish the state of ‘dis-ease’ and restore emotional balance to the client’s life. From thereon clients experiment with different actions designed to abolish the body's need to send symptoms as warning signals, using a Journal to track success in reducing symptoms.

    Is Reverse therapy a Psychotherapy?
    As stated, Reverse therapy is a Bodymind healing process. Although it is a talking cure Reverse therapy is not a psychotherapy.

    Most forms of Psychotherapy focus on getting rid of symptoms but Reverse Therapy doesn’t do that. It works with symptoms rather than against them. Reverse Therapists do not work with thoughts and beliefs. Nor do we work with dreams or memories from the past. We consider this material to be predominantly 'Headstuff'. Nor do we use hypnosis or suggestion for the simple reason that we do not believe there is an Unconscious Mind.

    The formation of emotions, intuitions, traumatic memories, instinctive reactions and desires is actually carried out by Bodymind. Reverse therapy is an educational process that enables clients to re-connect to Bodymind and live in harmony with it.

    What is the Reverse therapy view of M.E./Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia?

    We regard these conditions as expressions of the same underlying disorder, along with so-called 'Post-Viral Fatigue Syndrome'.

    We do not agree that any of these illnesses are caused by a virus. Instead we consider that viral problems result when the Immune system has broken down due to over-exertion/exhaustion.

    Reverse therapists regard these conditions as glandular disorders caused by overwork by the Hypothalamic/Limbic system areas in the brain. Bodymind uses these brain mechanisms when it perceives the person is at risk of harm in certain situations, simultaneously placing the body on 'red alert' and using symptoms to warn the person about the problem. The individual - unless he/she enters Reverse therapy - is not aware of these neuro-chemical reactions and is unable to control them.

    Reverse therapy helps the client understand how and why symptoms are being produced so that remedial action be taken to re-connect to body e-motions, deal with the problem and restore equilibrium (meaning a balance between one's own emotional needs and demands from the environment).

    Can Reverse therapy be used for other problems?

    Yes. Before John realised that Bodymind healing work could be used to resolve the symptoms of M.E./CFS and Fibromyalgia, he was using these techniques to work with Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Gut disorders, Skin conditions and some Auto-Immune problems. He - along with other therapists registered with Reverse Therapy UK - also use Reverse therapy to reverse the symptoms of Anxiety, Depression, Addictions and other problems


    Just posting for info only, not endorsing this at all.

    I do know that Having SAD symptoms, can be relieved by having more Light in your Life, on thoes Gray Dreay day's.
    I used to enjoy working with my Slides, and found that the Light Box I used, seemed to make me feel better, after I had worked on it for awhile.
    Durn I could have been rich, lol, why didn't I think of that Huh?

  5. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    wanted to make sure she was able to read this info.
    Hope it helps.
  6. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    i have done reverse therapy and am seeing phil parker about the lightning process.

    reverse therapy worked up to a point for me but only got me to a part recovery. i found the attitude of the therapist unhelpful in that if the therapy didnt work it was my fault. i felt that it was part way to a solution but didnt really get to the root.

    with the lightning process it is far more rigorous, and becuase of this actually deals with the thoughts and behaviours that are the main root "cause" of cfs. i would suggest going to his website. there are testemonials there of people who have made a full recovery and you can also see videos, one of which is me!

    i would say they are a little similar, but i never felt that i would recover fully using reverse therapy whereas i am completely confident of a full recovery with the lightning process.

    both theories are controversial especially the lightning process, and there are many people on this forum who will completely disagree with what phil parker has to say. but its working well for me and thats all i care about.

    this type of thing normally results in outraged responses along the lines of "these people are telling us its all in the mind." i am beginning to think it may well have its root there, at least for me. as soon as i started thinking like that i started feeling better.
  7. SaraL

    SaraL New Member

    Thanks very much Sharonk and Dave for you answers, and you others who answered earlier. Really appreciate the help!! Thanks for posting that info. from the website--have read about half the article and it is very helpful, will read the rest after I post this and have a rest!

    Dave, guess it is you I have seen on one of those videos probably--I watched 2 videos at the Phil Parker website. Those recovery stories are so inpspiring!! How long has the process been taking for you? How far along in recovery would you describe yourself?

    I am very intrigued by the Lightning Process--wish I could find someone in the states trained in it!! (Actually I am waiting to here back from one of the trained practitioners in the UK as to whether there is anyone over here doing it.)

    Thanks very much for responding and I would love to hear more about your experience with it.

  8. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    i have been doing it for over a month now. some people seem to get better almost immediately, for some it takes a little longer. i think a lot of it depends on how long you have had cfs.

    i am doing much better. at first i did have a few relapses but i am much much clearer headed now, most of the fatigue is gone and i seem to be left with just some aching that is fading. the best thing is that i am confident that these changes are here to stay and that i will continue to improve until i am fully recovered. i am so much more confident for the future and honestly believe that the life i will have will be better than the one i had before i became unwell.

    LISALOO New Member

    Professor Phil Parker's Lightning Process for ME/CFS
    When we have ME/CFS we experience deep tiredness and many body symptoms. We grow to distrust our body, because we can't count on how we'll be feeling from day to day. We constantly check for how tired or ill we are, or will be, or have been. We imagine exactly how bad we're going to feel later if we 'overdo' it now.

    When we look at our past, we see how bad it's been and how difficult it has been to improve. Our present life is polluted by the past. Our future seems destined to be more of the same, with predictable unreliability of energy and wellness.

    Disempowering Treatment Response Cycle
    So we search for a solution and start a new treatment. We start improving initially and get hopeful that we've found the cure. But the benefits tail off and we get disappointed. We start the search again, but with a little less hope and confidence than before.

    So what's different about the Lightning Process?
    Through 5 years of research into ME/CFS, Professor Phil Parker discovered the root cause of these illnesses. He revealed an underlying adrenaline loop - a continuous overproduction of adrenaline.

    Here's how sufferers experience it:

    Step 1. The initial bug/virus caused extreme stress on your immune system.

    Step 2. You felt very unwell. The symptoms were either very strong or lasted so long that you began to wonder if you would ever get better.

    Step 3. Understandably, these concerns made you more stressed which in turn made your body produce adrenaline. Adrenaline is a good response to short term stress, but long term production of it exhausts us, affects our blood sugar and thyroid levels, suppresses our immune system and makes us prone to illness and tiredness - so you loop back to Step 2.

    This vicious cycle can continue for many years. The reason you haven't been able to quite put your finger on what's wrong, is because it's been an unconscious blind-spot. Your body has been continually producing adrenaline behind the scenes. Unaddressed, you just keep slipping back into the old pattern of fatigue and illness.

    The Lightning Process
    The Lightning process is called so, because it's so quick. It turns around the illness within a week. The reason it's so quick is because adrenaline only needs a short period in which to leave the body. Then the body's immune system can assert itself and all affected systems return to normal.

    The Lightning Process is not therapy, psychotherapy, counselling, graded exercise etc, usually tried with this illness. You've probably tried all of them, dragging-up your past traumas etc, but they don't clear the condition.

    The Lightning Process consists of a discovery process, where you make conscious and see clearly the unconscious pattern that has been keeping you stuck in the adrenaline loop. You're then taught a very simple and effective way of interrupting and completely stopping this vicious cycle of fatigue and burnout. The process is taught face to face over 3 days.

    Case Study: Kate Simpson
    Kate had had ME for 5 years when she came for the Lightning Process. She was quite debilitated and could not do normal household tasks like hoovering. She couldn't quite believe that the Lightning Process could clear her condition quickly. But she took a leap of faith, hoping it would at least help her to feel a little better.

    Just 3 days later, she spent a few hours digging her veggie patch. A week later she was completely symptom free and thoroughly enjoying being able to do normal things again - like playing rough and tumble with her son, 7 year old Freddie. Kate's response to the Lightning Process is common. Kate continues to go from strength to strength.

    Lightningly Fast
    The uniqueness of the Lightning Process is that it clears the condition very quickly. Before I trained with Professor Parker at the European College of Holistic Medicine in London, I thought I was successful by helping clients turn around their condition within 6 months.

    Like Kate, I was full of scepticism that a process could heal so quickly a condition that usually lingers for many years. But I now understand why it's so effective and feel privileged to be able to help people quickly put their lives back together again - thank you Professor Parker!

  10. SaraL

    SaraL New Member

    Thanks Lisaloo for posting that article!! Very interesting!! And Davebhoy for your response, thanks very much! It sounds like you are doing really well--like it has been extremely helpful for you. It sure sounds like something I'd like to pursue--I am still hoping possibly someone is doing it here in the states.

    Davebhoy, I guess your L.P. therapist has a different approach then your reverse therapy counselor(s)? Not bullying or implying you were culpable for being ill (I can't remember your exact words)?

    I read at the website for Phil Parker he was writing a book on the Lightning Process, but seems like they have repeatedly put off the publication date. Wonder what is the hold up? I'd sure like to read it.

  11. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    i know phil is in the process of finishing off his book but he's just had a baby so his priorities have shifted a bit.

    the recovery stories do sound too good to be true but as far as i can tell they are 100% authentic. i think half the problem with cfs is that we have been told for so long that there is no "cure" or chance of a full recovery that when someone tells us there is we find it very difficlut to belive and are suspicious. it is a bt of a leap of faith and i myself have found it a big change but once i did start to see it as a real possibility then things did get better quicker.

    it is one of the things that i think people who have never had cfs struggle to understand - that after suffering from this horrible thing for so long, we find it very hard to envisage a day when we are completely free of it and "normal" again.
  12. Tantallon

    Tantallon New Member

    Will read all this later.

    Thank you for the info
  13. hahaha

    hahaha New Member

    Hi how is your recovery going? I have watched all the videos on the lightning process site and it does seem too good to be true. Are you fully recovered yet? Is the technique easier to employ than reverse therapy? (which I have tried). Any info you have on this would be most welcome.
  14. hahaha

    hahaha New Member

    Any Update Dave - Still going well?
  15. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    no i would not say i am 100% reccovered, but i am improving all the time.

    i havent had a relapse in a long time, the fatigue is decreasing by the week, i can now eat pretty much what i want without getting symptoms after. a lot of the brain fog has gone as well. i am having back pains and headaches now - its like the pain and fatigue is moving around.

    i have noticed where and when symptoms arise and its these times that i need to be extra diligent. i have let things slids a bit recently and its something that you cant just do for a while and then everythign is better - you need to use the tehnique for the rest of your life whenever you feel yourself falling into the old patterns, beliefs and thoughts.

    doing the process has made me realsie that i do have some deep-seated issues that i need to address. these were a problem for me before but i was able to get by by burying them. cfs put paid to that and if i do let them trouble me the symptoms come back. in a way cfs has been like an alarm call - these are things that are clearly making me unhappy and my body seems to be telling me i neeed to deal with them.

    witht regards to rt, lp is similar to rt but you have to work a bit harder at it. as i said before for me rt wasnt deep enough.
  16. hahaha

    hahaha New Member

    So basically the lightning process teaches you to identify when your symptoms flare, look at how you are thinking at the time and to try and change your thought process / behaviour that leads to this symptom increase?

    It sounds like a mish-mash of RT and CBT but I imagine it is very hard to change deeply engrained thought processes.
  17. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    rt teaches you to talk to your conscious and sub-conscious minds when you experience symptoms.

    the lightning process has you listen in to your thoughts and observe your behaviours to watch out for any time you may be "doing" cfs. the process stops any thoughts or behaviours in their tracks and encourages the mind to replace these processes with new more positive, constructive ones.

    to do the process properly you need to stay conscious at all times of what you may be thinking or doing and catch it every time. rt tells you to read out or repeat your message whenever you become aware of any symptoms. my main problem with rt was that it didnt seem relevant for all the constant aches and fatigue, and especially the post-exertion malaise, only the symptoms that flared up from time to time.

    to me rt just didnt feel right. the lightning process does.

    at the weekend i flew to ireland for a family knees-up on friday afternoon, drank from 7.30 in the evening until 4.00 in the morning, woke the next day with a terrible hangover, drank that night from 6.30 until 4 in the morning, woke the next day with an even worse hangover. today i am tired but fine. six months ago i would have been starting a bad relapse just about now. i'm going to go to bed now and i know i'll be ok tomorrow. i am not 100% yet but i am confident i will get there.
  18. hahaha

    hahaha New Member

    that sounds very encouraging I am glad you are getting better. I can sometimes identify when what I am thinking or doing is making my CFS worse, but one problem I have is there is sometimes nothing else to think about, apart from the thought processes that keep me ill, if you get my drift.

    I guess it depends on the individual what more positive or contructive things you can think about or do to stop the CFS in its tracks, or is there a one size fits all answer?

    Also how much does the LP treatment cost? I'm guessing it's expensive!
  19. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    the lightning process actually teaches you something that you use on yourself. you learn it over three sessions in three days and then have another session a week later. each session costs one hundred and forty pounds.

    if you want to know more and are considering it i would look at the website and contact phil directly yourself. i wouldnt want to prejudice your views on the process in any way. but i am more than happy to let you know about my progress, however i am not always keen to do it on this board as in the past i have encountered some hostility and some agression from people who do not agree with the main premise of both the lightning process and reverse therapy. people seem to be very uncomfortable with anything that suggests a mind/body connection, they perceive it as people saying that it means they are being told that it is "all in the mind."
  20. laspis1

    laspis1 New Member

    I just would like to encourage you to post your progress with this therapy. Like with everything else, a medication, supplement or therapy, we all have to make our minds individually and decide whether to try sth or not. But sharing information here at least provides us with access to various experiences. Along with support and encouragement this is what this board is about. I am curious as to how you will do. Let us know.

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