is this hormonal or DHEA ?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by pinkquartz, Aug 18, 2003.

  1. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    i have upped my DHEA to 25mgs and it has stopped me getting a 3 day migraine as usual with my period. hooray

    however i now have a huge wave of depression and also i have palpitations again for the first time in months this has happenend at the tail end of my period.

    is this type of symptoms common as i go into the menopause or is it the DHEA.

    any thoughts anyone ?

    thanks, pinkquartz

  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I would maybe suspect the DHEA of unbalancing your sex hormones and causing depression, but the palpitations sound like classic peri-menopausal symptoms (Unless you also have an MVP and are not drinking enough water).
    Did a medical person tell you to take that much DHEA? For a man that's not too much, but it's a bit high for a female unless you have proven to have a very low level of it. Sorry, I can't remember if you do have low DHEA. When I took too much DHEA, which for me was 30 mgs., it made me shake like crazy.
    You can always back off it and see if you improve.
    Klutzo

    P.S. When I went into the final stage of menopause, my 3-day period migraines disappeared forever. I pray this is what is happening to you. For me it had nothing to do with taking supps. My doctor said that menstrually-related migraines often go away at menopause.
  3. tansy

    tansy New Member

    I think our bodies become so out of kilter it really is very difficult to get everything back into balance.

    I have resorted to the low dose patches of natural oestrogen and maca root. Yesterday I finally felt some real benefits but a few old symptoms returned. Will have to play it by ear and see what happens when I start the 12 day prog tablets.

    Klutzo seems to have worked out the problem, sounds logical to me. Were your DHEA levels tested? Mine were only low in the morning after that the levels were faily ok. May well be a lower dose of DHEA will do the job and are you taking it at a time in the day when you feel it is low?

    Perimenopausal changes in hormones and levels dropping or rising have caused all sorts of problems for me including palpitations, virtually no sleep, no heat tolerance whatsoever ++++. Can't wait until the menopause proper, hoping it will mean the end of all the peaks and troughs my hormone cycles caused.

    Good luck with this. Have just received your e-mail, will reply asap but ISP has warned us we're going off line in a few minutes so may not be able to reply just yet.

    Love

    Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 08/18/2003]
    [This Message was Edited on 08/18/2003]
  4. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    Klutzo i did do a dhea test and i was low although not as low as cortisol. i am going to dip down to 15mgs and see how that feels. i don't know if i have MVP, but i will drink more and see if that helps. i will talk to my doc when she comes back to work , soon i hope.
    i take reassurance that all this can be typical and will pass, that will be good !

    slowgirl... i was going to email you but keep feeling so rubbish....oops just remembered i should have phoned my mum at the weekend it was her birthday oops.
    will email you soon

    tansy thanks for your reply.....how are you doing on the cortisol?

    love
    pinkquartz
  5. tansy

    tansy New Member

    The cortisol is helping. Thanks to you and Madwolf I finally plucked up the courage to ask my GP, had bad experience with prednisolone, and worked out how to push for it. So glad now I did. Wasn't sure of benefits at first but then I started slowly, always do this if I can with meds or supps.

    Thanks for the advice on drinking plenty of water to start with, I did notice an increase in thirst and am aware I have retained some water. For me this is a good thing, it all went through me before now I feel my body can benefit from it.

    As with your DHEA I did feel a bit strange with it but have got used to this in the past. Same happened when I had Mg injections and they helped tremendously, I don't think our bodies adjust to anything well.

    Certainly worth going on with the hydrocortisol until my next GP appointment, then any further prescriptions will depend upon my being sure it is helping and my GP believing it's safe to continue with it. My sister (pharmacist) was anti but I probably said cortisone instead of hydrocortisone when discussing it with her.

    Do sincerely hope you get the bottom of your depression, that's no fun on top of everything else especially at the moment. Have you seen Klutzo's posts on neurotranmsmitter deficiencies, make a whole lot of sense to me, maybe something there would help you or give you some clues. After all the brain controls the HPA axis, our sex hormones, everything in fact.

    Love

    Tansy
  6. sb439

    sb439 New Member

    just my 5 cents (or two pence ...). When I took DHEA, even just 5mg, I got depressed, when I stopped, the depression stopped. I was and still am low in DHEA. So one way of testing is just to go without the DHEA for a few days and see what happens, I'd think.

    Sorry you have these problems, hope you'll get them sorted soon, feeling depressed is horrible.
    love,
    Susanne

    and hi to you, Slowgirl :)

  7. isee

    isee New Member

    I had a similar reaction to regular DHEA, which converts to testosterone and estrogen. My heart raced, but worse, I became depressed(which isn't one of my symptoms). And, my uterine fibroids caused intense cramps and I bled heavily, even though I'm in menopause.

    I did a couple of things: I switched to DHEA 7-Keto, which doesn't convert to estrogen/testosterone; and, I started taking pregnenelone(30mg). I now alternate the two, taking 7-keto one day, the pregnenelone the other. Another thing that's helped has been to apply my natural progesterone cream every day, instead of just 5 days a week.

    I don't feel depressed now, but I benefit from the energy afforded by the combination of 7-Keto and the pregnenelone.

    Anna
  8. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Switching to 7-Keto DHEA might help a lot.
    That amt. of pregnenolone may not be safe long term, but it can help improve mood dramatically over the short term. Long-term, 20 mgs. per week is the safest dose, divided into 2 doses of 10 mgs. since that is the lowest OTC dose available.
    KLutzo
  9. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    hi isee i did wonder about the 7 keto when i ordered the dhea, i wasn't sure what to try.

    i will ordersome ...it takes a few weeks to get ovet here.

    i have got some pregnenolone so i will try that .

    these things might give us some bumps but at least we are trying things !

    i like your name, :-}

    hi klutzo
    thanks for putting in the dosage. i must look up more info on the neurotransmitters.....my brain though is not good lately...i am taking ages for any new info to go in and get understood. but i am reading something everyday and slowly i take in more

    love, pinkquartz
  10. keeponsmiling

    keeponsmiling New Member

    Did you mean to say 20 mg. of Pregnenalone a WEEK, or per DAY? Thanks.

    Cheryll
  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    The maximum dose that is proven safe long-term is 3 mgs. per day, or 21 mgs. per week. Since the lowest OTC dosage is 10 mgs., the closest thing is to take 10 mgs. every 3rd day. It may be that higher doses are quite safe; it is just not known for sure, so it's up to you if you want to take a chance.
    I had a dramatic improvement in my mood on 30 mgs. daily, but it raised my estrogen all the way up to premenopausal levels, which started my pre-menstrual migraines up again. The only good thing about menopause was getting rid of those #$@&? migraines!
    Klutzo
  12. keeponsmiling

    keeponsmiling New Member

    Very interesting about the Preg maximum dosage. My doctor has me on 20 mg sub-lingual every day. My adrenal tests came back with inappropriate release of cortisol at night, causing hypoglycemic reactions and poor sleep. It was suggested that I take either DHEA or pregnenalone. My doctor chose the Preg, because he thought it would also ease my PMS and painful/heavy periods.

    It's working like a charm. The last 3 months, my periods have been virtually pain-free, very little PMS, and my flow is much lighter.

    I'm wondering if I should ask about lowering the dose the next time I see him?

    Cheryll
  13. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I think once you have permanently "re-set" your cortisol clock, you may be able to cut down to the safer dose, but trust the doc on when to do that, since he/she seems to be so up on this. Remember,there is no proof the higher dose is not safe...it is just that there is no proof it is safe either.
    I am amazed that Preg would fix this problem, which is the rationale for giving low dose Cortef in the am. If Preg would work instead, that would be wonderful.
    I also feel very alive at night and can't sleep, but when I took 30 mgs. Preg, it did not help that.
    I am so glad it is helping you, and I'll bet Madwolf would be interested in knowing about this, for his patients who are afraid to take the Cortef.
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 08/20/2003]

    PS - almost forgot - I have a question...what time of day does your doc have you taking the Preg? I was told to take it in the am so it doesn't interfere with sleep, but I read it is better absorbed at night. Maybe it hasn't helped me sleep because I take it at the wrong time.[This Message was Edited on 08/20/2003]
  14. Jasmine

    Jasmine New Member

    Dr. Poesnecker put me on 50 mg of 7-keto and 30 mg of Pregenolone first thing in the morning before I brush my teeth. I've been taking this dosage for 3 years and I feel good on it. It took away the bad headaches I used to get and my energy level is better plus it improved my mood. Plus the Pregnenolone helped my neurally mediated hypotension. Also I find B-complex vitamins 50 mg after breakfast gives me a good deal of energy and improves mood also.

    I don't have heart palpitations I used to have from my MVP since I started taking magesium a few years ago plus less chest pain for me and more energy and breathing better from the magnesium.

    If you think the DHEA is making you feel depressed then maybe you should stop taking it for a few days and see how that works. My doctor has me stop 7-keto for three days before I take my yearly Adrenal Stress Index Test.

    Love, Jasmine
  15. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Do you know what your DHEA levels are and any inclination as to the levels of your sex hormones. My 24 hour saliva tests and blood tests indicated DHEA was a definite no no. However, I have considered pregnenalone and then if necessary use 7 keto DHEA as well.

    I'm leaving it for a bit though since I need to see what current programme is doing for me first.

    Good luck

    Love

    Tansy