===LOST: Episode 9 == THE TORCH LIGHT IS LIT===

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    ~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~
    ..... 4:9 "The Shape Of Things To Come" .....

    I don't know about the rest of your Lost fans, but this year without tv has given me superhuman abilities to withstand delayed gratification. After eight months of waiting for the season to begin, this last month has been almost bearable. But I am glad it's over and Lost returns tonight!

    Be warned: we will not be easing gently back into the series. It's going to be intense! Tonight is a Ben and/or Sayid-centric episode.

    With Survivor, Grey's Anatomy and Lost all in one night, I may need a dose of oxygen and a good strong defibrillation before the night is over. I am so accustomed to being bored that I don't know if I can handle this much excitement in one night! But even so, I can't wait!
  2. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    I am so looking forward to tonight....I just hope I can stay awake and somewhat coherent. I can always record the shows, but it's just been too long without my LOST fix.

    I've decided LOST is the only anti-depressant that works:)

    Enjoy the evening, I'll check back later.....Hermit
  3. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    So much happened tonight!! After watching the boring Grey's Anatomy show, Lost was so great!!

    Some questions were answered. I wonder how Ben stole Widmore's island?? And the black smoke returns. Very creepy. Ben looked so surprised that his daughter got killed. He just stared with those creepy eyes of his.

    It was funny that Widmore referenced Ben's eyes!! Those eyes have bothered me from day one!! I think it's also funny that Ben is depicted as an action hero type character when he looks like such a ninny. Cracks me up!!


  4. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Well, that certainly WAS intense. Lots of action, and people dying left and right. It cracked me up that one of the others that died was actually wearing a red shirt. (I assume everyone knows the term "redshirt". If not, I will explain.) That had to be the writers and their sense of humor.

    Poor Alex. I never expected that. Ben better hope her mama is really dead, cause that woman is going to rip him to shreds when she finds out how his bluff backfired and cost Alex her life!

    The writers said that each time we see Smokey, we learn something new about him. I guess the new thing we learned is that he can be summoned by Ben. That must be what happened when Ben went through the ancient door in his magic closet. He summoned Smokey.

    The door itself was interesting. http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/
    If you look at the screencap of it, you can see that it is covered in hieroglyphics and designs. It must be connected to the ancient civilization that built the 4-toed statue and whatever once stood where the pillars remain. Who built the house over it? It has to have been there since the early Dharma days. How did Ben and his father end up getting the house with the secret room?

    The parka Ben was wearing (with the name Halliwax on it) had what must be the logo of the Orchid Station on it. Edgar Halliwax was the name Marvin Candle/Mark Wickmund is using in the Orchid orientation video. The spiral in the center reminds me of the old 60's tv show "The Time Tunnel." And the thing in the very center must be an orchid.

    So there's Ben smack in the center of the desert with steam coming off of him, and no tracks around him. So he must have time traveled to Tunisia. He throws up something orangish. Could this be the same orange drink they gave Juliet before her journey to the island? Time travel juice? Interesting that he asked the hotel clerk what the date was. He must not have complete control over exactly when he will arrive where he is going.

    Also, Doc Ray washed up dead, but is also alive and well on the freighter! Huh? Must be another time thing. This makes it seem like the island is further in the future than the freighter, because he cant be dead in the past and still alive in the future. I love the time travel stuff, but this is getting more confusing all the time.

    Hurley's comment, "Australia is the key to the whole game" while playing Risk, was just begging to be analyzed. Was this a big clue for us? Of course, the plane and all the passengers came from Australia. Plus there was that Issac guy in AU who Rose went to hoping to be healed. He talked to her about special places in the world with magical healing powers. And for a bizarre twist, Widmore, who always had a very British accent, suddenly is speaking with an Aussie accent in the privacy of his own room! A closeted Aussie?

    These rules Ben spoke of... what's that all about? It almost seems like he and Widmore have been battling over the island for many many years. Could one of the rules be that no family members can be killed? He tried to save Alex by telling Keamy that she was not his real daughter.

    Why can't Ben kill Widmore? Will the Island not allow it? Widmore claims its his island and he wants it back. Yet he doesn't know how to find it. Interesting.

    With Ben not living in linear time like everyone else, and having the ability to travel back and forth in time, it makes me wonder about Libby giving Desmond the boat. Was Libby working for Ben? Now that we know Ben is gunning for Penny, did HE arrange to have Pennys boyfriend end up on the island, to lure her there? Libby is also connected to Hurley through the mental institution. Ben knows Hurley is special. Did he also send Libby to Santa Rosa to spy on Hurley? Not sure what to think about all this yet.

    McGuyver... I mean Farraday, rigs the satellite phone so he can transmit morse code to the freighter, then lies about the response. Yay for Bernard who catches him in the lie!

    I love this new side of Sawyer! Risking his life amid gunfire to save Claire, and threatening Locke not to touch a curly hair on Hurley's head or he dies. Now, besides being incredibly hot, Sawyer is also heroic, and proves that he has great affection for his companions. Now that he's perfect, I am afraid he will die. I will put him on my worry list with Desmond.

    And Hurley is just adorable with baby Aaron! I just want to hug them both!
  5. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I think the game of Risk in the beginning was indicative of everything else that is going on. It seems like Ben and Widmore are playing a game with rules and the "prize" is the island.

    I think there are many pawns in this game of theirs. Certainly Alex was a pawn. Ben played a bluff and lost his daughter to the game.

    Michael is also a pawn as we saw when he kept trying to kill himself and couldn't. It seems like it was against the rules. Even the "Not Yet" sign was telling him he couldn't play by his own rules. I think there has been quite a bit of "game" type behavior.

    I am going to write down my random thoughts that I know are connected, but I haven't figured out how yet.

    1) Ben's daughter Alex was murdered, so he is going to kill Widmore's daughter, Penny. Ben lost Alex (dead).

    2) Penny lost Desmond for several years and has finally found him on the freighter.

    3) Sayid lost Nadia for several years and finally found her, married her and she was killed. Sayid lost Nadia (Widmore's doing?). So her found her, then lost her again (dead this time)

    4) Sayid and Desmond (Both of whom lost their women) are on the freighter together.

    5) Ben employs Sayid in the future and they both hate Widmore.

    Like I say, these things are all connected, but I'm not quite putting all the puzzle pieces together yet. Certainly being LOST and experiencing LOSS is a theme within LOST.

    4everkid, I also laughed when the red shirt got it after being onscreen for 2 seconds. I immediately thought "Star Trek"!!

    Did you notice how Claire called Sawyer "Charlie?" when she was almost blown up? I wonder if that was a little hint of what's to come??? Hmmm?? They do both have dirty blond, moppy hair and scruffy beards. However, Sawyer is gorgeous and Charlie was merely cute.

    Sorry if this post is kind of incoherent and rambling. I've been battling a boomer of a headache for days. I'll re-read it later and try to fix it (if I can!)
  6. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    Secret Agent Man...that old song keeps playing in my head! He was almost comical as he adventured his way thru his different circumstances in this episode. I loved it.

    I actually felt so sad for him for the first time...this was the only time he truly showed a heartfelt emotion of grief over anything that he's done. Poor Alex.

    Very enjoyable epi...still need to watch it again.
  7. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    Secret Agent Man!!! That is so funny!!! I know I will be singing that in my head next week when I watch!! It's just kills me to see him acting all cool and james bond like. He's such a dweeb!!
  8. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    TwinMa, You make some good points about the game-like quality of Lost. I got that game feeling from the Ben/Widmore scene too. It made me think of a website I ran across a while back. You would probably love this site:


    Someone has gone to a lot of trouble to lay out his/her theory that Lost is a game, and how it all works. I had this page saved to my favorites list, but never payed much attention to it till tonight. I went there to get the address for you, and got caught up reading it. Sometime when you have a day to kill, check it out.

    No need to apologize for rambling...look at MY posts! It's hard to know where to start and impossible to piece things together when discussing this show. Especially after only one viewing. I need to go back for a second round.

    Molly, the thought crossed my mind that maybe Widmore is ageless like Richard. He says the island was once his, he has this fascination with the Black Rock, he called Ben "boy", and there was just something in that conversation with Ben that struck me that way.

    Dar, I usually love Greys Anatomy, but this week, I couldn't wait for it to hurry up and be over! The three girls with their points and their cold behavior towards their patients was just rubbing me the wrong way!

    Dar and Hermitlady - Ben is very dweeb-like in appearance, yet completely cold hearted. I remarked to my daughter while watching that I think this is the first time Ben has showed an emotion. And remember how when they first found Ben aka Henry Gale, he almost seemed innocent - all pale and weak and googley eyed. He didn't seem very threatening at first, and I actually felt sorry for him. In the story, in his "secret agent man" persona, no one would suspect a guy like him would be whatever it is that he is. (That statement made very little sense.) In other words, he doesn't look like a bad guy. But for some reason, his odd, non threatening appearance makes him that much more interesting. His dweeb/monster persona fits his passive/aggressive nature. I don't know if I could accept Michael Emmerson in any other role, after being Ben.

  9. painterZ

    painterZ New Member

    First of all "Hi" to 4ever and other groupies. I decided to pop in just for the lost post. I still have my troubles that are pretty intense right now, but I'm still hangin' in there.

    I don't know why I love Ben the way I do. I think it's that whole good/evil thing where just when you think "hey, he's a decent dude" you see him hide a devious smile. I've seen that actor on some old episodes of CSI and Law and Order and he's ALWAYS a bad dude. Guess he's type casted for his unusual looks.

    Rambo Sawyer made me laugh...what's up with that?

    I'd still marry Hurley...I agree he is too cute with baby Aaron and he volunteered to go with Locke just to get the guys to put their guns away.

    Well, that's my two cents...no major theories or thoughts just yet...just trying to comprehend the show right at this point:) Hopefully chat with ya next week.

  10. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Painter, I am so glad you decided to drop in!

    Ben is the perfect example of a guy you love to hate. There are so many dimensions to his character. When he first appeared on Lost, he looked familiar, but I don't know where I had seen him before. But now, after this role, I will never forget him!

    Hurley is also beginning to show a lot of dimensions to his character. He is so much more than the happy-go-lucky dude he was in season 1. I am glad he got moved off the backburner and into the foreground of the storyline. It seems now that he is an integral piece of the big Lost puzzle.

    I hope you continue to pop in to discuss Lost with us. It just wouldn't be the same here without you! I'm sorry to hear that your troubles are not over yet. I just hope things are headed in your favor and that it will all work out in the end for you and your daughter. I have been thinking about you, and will keep you in my prayers.
  11. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    4ever....yes, I agree w you that Hurley is an integral piece of the puzzle here. Think about it, he is the only character (I think, I'm pretty foggy) that was actually affected (effected?) indirectly by the island before he even got there. The numbers from the crazy dude in the hospital...long before the plane crash.

    He is one of my fav characters, I always love the Hurley-centric epis.

    I am having so much trouble typing this morning...gotta go cuz I'm correcting errors every other word!
  12. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi all,

    Gosh, I feel so lost after this episode.

    When I began watching this series, it was with blind faith and trust in the creators of it. I didn't know what I was in for. I didn't know I had signed up for a bloodbath.

    So I have mixed feelings about this episode. I don't know how many more episodes of random killing I can take! It's so grueling.

    This was such a grim episode. I felt really bad about Alex, just as I had about Karl and Danielle. Those characters added a lot of richness and dimension to the show.

    This island had better be pretty freakin' darn great to justify so much bloodshed.

    I'm not sure who the other in the red shirt was that you are talking about. The three unknown people who were killed by the mercenaries were supposed to be crash survivors who had come with Locke on his retreat to the village. As far as I know. Remember how several unknown people also followed him, out of the big group of survivors? I suspected they were going to be expendable.

    The scene with Ben and Widmore was very puzzling to me!

    Ben is going to kill Penny??? NOOOOOOOOOO! If the writers kill her off, I am going to scream. I can't stand to have so many good characters killed off.

    Does Ben know what the black smoke is, or does he just know how to summon it?

    The door he went through to reach Smokey was very cool.

    Okay, I'm still getting back in the swing of things. They plunged us right back into the worst of times. I agree with those of you who were bored/annoyed with Grey's Anatomy last night. It's hard to care about their contest when lives are at stake in "Lost"!

  13. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Hermitlady, good point about Hurley!

    Forebearance, you are right, the guy in the red shirt was just an unknown character. But what was funny is that he was wearing a red shirt.
    The term "redshirt" goes back to the original Star Trek TV series. When a team would beam down to a planet, you would have Kirk in his gold Captains shirt, Spock in blue and a few unknown lower ranking guys in red shirts. You always KNEW one of the guys in the red shirts would get killed, because they were nobodies. The term "redshirt" was coined to refer to an unfamiliar character, who is the most likely person to get killed in a tv show or movie. An expendable pawn introduced just to be killed off. In this case, we have the group of people we know, Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, etc, and these random strangers we've never seen, all in grave danger. You know it will be a "redshirt" to get killed. What was funny, was that one guy was actually wearing a red shirt. They had to have done that to be funny.

    So you will know I am not making this up:

    This was indeed a grueling episode. There has been death and violence on the island since day 1 when the pilot got gobbled up by Smokey. (I found Grey's Anatomy more disturbing though, with the intestines hanging out.)

    YOur statement: "This island had better be pretty freakin' darn great to justify so much bloodshed" is something I have said a few times myself. Like when Ms. Klugh was willing to die to keep the big secret, and Patchy with his grenade.

    Remember the old days of tv when main characters never EVER died? I remember when they killed off Sid, a main character on Knots Landing. It was such a shock, and may have been the first time they ever actually killed a main character. How times have changed! With Lost, I fear for my favorites lives every week. You just never know who will go next. I hated to see Alex get killed that way, but it sure drove that point home... that the secret Ben is keeping must be Earth shattering that he would risk his adopted childs life by bluffing.

    I don't think we know yet if Ben knows what Smokey is. But what most people took from this episode is that he can summon Smokey, but not control him.

  14. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    I keep thinking that who do we know is really dead? We thought both Patchy and Locke were dead at one point. So it;s possible that Ben's daughter and her mom are not really dead.

    Who knows???
  15. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Too Funny 4everkid! I had no idea Red Shirt had an actual definition on Wikipedia! I'm a big Star Trek fan, and I just always noticed that the guys in red shirts would end up dead. I didn't know that it was an actual tracked phenomenon!

    I went to the Wikipedia reference that you sited. At the bottom, they talk about Boone in Lost making a "Red Shirt" reference in the episode "All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues". Here is the quote from that site:

    When Boone and Locke split away from Kate and Jack during the search, Boone continues to tie parts of a red shirt to the trees. He tells Locke that in Star Trek the crew who wore red shirts would always be the ones who died. He asks Locke if he has ever seen Star Trek, to which Locke responds "No, not really". Terry O'Quinn, the actor who plays Locke, once guest-starred on an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. (end of quote)

    Love it! I also looked up the Lost is a Game website. Now there is a person with a LOT of time on their hands! It's an interesting website, although a bit bizarre. I only quickly browsed through it, so I'll have to go back and check it out more thoroughly. He makes comments about how the Lost characters have changed eye colors during the season. This dude really analyzes Lost in depth!

    Forebearance - I also agree with you on the excessive violence in this week's episode. Alex's execution style death especially bothered me.

    mollystwin - I hope you are right that these people are not really dead. We have been fooled before.

  16. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Dar, I am not convinced that Danielle is really dead yet. Karl...probably, but Danielle? We never got a backstory on her yet!

    TwinMa - Wikipedia seems to have EVERYTHING covered, right down to pop culture references like "redshirt"! I wish I had looked that up before writing my own explanation.

    When I first looked at the Lostisagame website, I came first to that eye page. I was not too impressed. A lot of the "one dark eye one light eye" examples were cases where one of the persons eyes was in shadow and the other was sunlit. Quite a stretch. (Although there are actual scenes where this happens. One with Locke where he had a white and a black eye in a dream sequence, for example) I just saved the page and never looked at it again till yesterday.

    But the rules of play page was pretty interesting. How each character plays one of the "good" roles, and how they are killed off if they play a "bad" role more than 3 times, how the game resets when certain criteria are met, and how each level of play corresponds with the numbers - that part was pretty interesting and very well thought out. I don't like the idea of Lost being a role playing game. But if it's just some extra added dimension for gamers to take delight in, then that's really cool. I just don't want it to be the BIG answer to the whole thing.
  17. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Maybe I'm extra daft this week, but I can't figure out what the title of this episode means. "The Shape of Things to Come"

    The shape of Smokie? What things? What do you guys think it means?
  18. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Good question TwinMa! I have wondered that myself, because the title always relates to the episode, sometimes in multiple ways.
    I googled a definition of the phrase. The first hit was Wikipedia, and it gave me this:

    """"The Shape of Things to Come is a work of science fiction by H. G. Wells, published in 1933, which speculates on future events from 1933 until the year 2106....
    Wells' book also shared with Stapledon's an understanding of the change wrought in the nature of war by the development of air power; both writers included harrowing depictions of cities destroyed in aerial bombardments, which proved an all too accurate prediciton of what was to happen in the actual second World War.""""


    That's interesting. It is like the change in the nature of war on the island, with mercenaries attacking and killing, and Otherville being partially destroyed. The war has begun. Coincidently, the cover of the book by this name has a picture with concentric circles, similar to the design on the dharma patch on Ben's parka.

    That "shape" on the patch also came to mind for me - the time tunnel type design. The things to come in the world of Lost may involve more time/space travel. With Ben hot on Penny's trail he may have to travel off island to lure her into his web.

    The flash forward showed Ben getting Sayid to hunt down Widmores men and kill them, and shows us more of how Ben operates.

    I don't know if any of these are what the writers had in mind, but they work for me.

    I came here to complain about a certain detail of the series. I want the Island to have a name! I know its a mystery island that no one can find and all, but it would be nice to know what to call it. Even if its just a name the Losties come up with, or the fans. Like how the fans dubbed the island natives "The Others" and it stuck. Or "Otherville" or "Smokey".... we need a name universally used to refer to the island by.

    It's had plenty of nicknames....

    "Haunted Damn Jungle" by Michael Dawson
    "Middle of Damn Nowhere" by Sawyer
    "The Wild" by Sawyer
    "Heart of Darkness" by Jack Shephard
    "The Magic Forest" by Sawyer
    "Jungle of Mystery" by Sawyer
    "Bloody Island" by Charlie Pace
    "Craphole Island" by Shannon Rutherford
    "Mystery Frickin' Island" by Shannon Rutherford
    "Fresh Wide Open" by Charlie Pace
    "Mt. Vesuvius" by Sawyer
    "Bloody Snow Globe" by Desmond Hume

    But none of the nicknames have stuck. It's time someone name this place!
  19. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I think naming the Island is a brilliant idea! I think it should be an anagram of some sort. That could open up lots of possibilities, and it would fit right in with all the other anagrams in the show. Maybe an anagram of one of the names you listed above? My brain is again in non-functioning mode, so I'm not coming up with anything at the moment. I'll give it more thought, though.

    Is there some website where you can enter a name or string of words and it comes up with all the possible anagrams?

    Thanks for your thoughts on the title of the episode. You always put the puzzle pieces together so nicely! That Wikipedia sure is a handy tool!