[[[[[::::LOST::::]]]]] Week 10 THE TORCH LIGHT IS LIT

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, May 1, 2008.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    ~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~
    ..... 4:10 "Something Nice Back Home" .....

    Hey Lost fans! It's Thursday again, and time for another dose of island insanity! Interesting title this week.

    Tonight is Jack-centric. The flashforwards have continued to move backward in time, so I suppose tonight we will see a piece of the future the closest to the time of rescue so far. It seems inevitable that eventually, with the island scenes moving forward in time and the future scenes moving backwards, the two timelines will converge. Where will we flash to then??? Will we still flash at all? The way these writers minds work, there's no telling!

    See you all after the show!
  2. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    Lots of dead people in tonights episode. Claire saw Dad and so did Jack!! And this time he spoke to Jack!! Hurley sees Charley regularly and tells him stuff that happens in the future. Weird. I'd be locked away if that happened to me for sure.

    So this is what happened to make Jack go off the deep end and grow the beard. Later he called Kate met her at the airport and told her they needed to go back to the island. There is bound to be more stuff revealed that happens in between.

    I wonder what Kate could be doing for Sawyer?? And who was she talking to on the phone? Ben? Is Ben manipulating her to do stuff too? Saying it's for Sawyer??

    So is this it for Claire and now Kate will be Aaron's mom? Or is she still OK? Why didn't Jack want to see Aaron but then change his mind? And Charlie told him he wasn't supposed to raise Aaron. Is that why he needs to go back? To get Claire??

    Does anyone have a clue??


    [This Message was Edited on 05/01/2008]
  3. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Wow, that was a lot of stuff in one episode. I am still trying to process it all.
    Molly - The preview for this episode said something like "the island takes one of the castaways for its own." So I think the island/smokey took the form of Christian and lured her away. What it wants with her I have no idea. It seems like the island would take Aaron if it was going to be choosing favorites.

    Since the whole thing about how the baby should not be "raised by another" came up again, maybe Claire raising Aaron goes against what the island wants. The Others tried to separate her from the baby while she was still pregnant. And they seemed to be working for the island.

    Dar - My first thought with Kate and her phone call, and errand for Sawyer was that she was talking to Cassidy. Cassidy was Sawyers girlfriend who he conned out of a lot of money. She had his baby, Clementine. Later, Kate and Cassidy met up and became buddies and fellow con artists.

    Now, on the island we see that Sawyer has become an entirely different man than he once was. He is loving, caring and even fatherly towards Claire and Aaron. My guess is that Sawyer told Kate to contact Cassidy when she got back and make sure she got the money back that he stole from her, for the baby.

    I don't think we know what changed Jacks mind about seeing Aaron yet. Fear of being a lousy father maybe? He loves Kate. That seemed to be hinted at on the island tonight. If he loves her enough, he may have talked himself into attempting being a good father image.

    I think Claire is still there, she's just missing. No idea why. There will have to be someone we care about left on that island, for them to go back and save.

    These are all just first impressions.

    Now a few random thoughts and questions:

    Was that Alice in Wonderland jack was reading? I will have to go back and listen to that part again to see what was said.

    I got the impression that Jack never really fully trusted Juliet. He insisted Kate be there for surgery. Plus Juliets remarks to Kate.

    Christian was actually holding Aaron, as if he were in physical form.

    They didn't leave us hanging long over the fate of Karl and Danielle.

    Was Jacks vision of Christian actually Smokey? Is that why the smoke alarm went off? Smoke alarms do warn of smoke in the building afterall.
  4. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I wonder if Jack found out that he is Aaron's uncle?

    When Kate referred to Aaron as "her son", Jack told her that she wasn't even related to him.

    Maybe that's what Christian told Jack. And maybe that's why he changed his mind after the trial and decided to be a "daddy" to Aaron--even though he is his uncle, not his dad.

    More later...

    P.S. - I'm bummed that Danielle and Karl are really dead. I don't really care one way or the other about Karl, but Danielle...I wanted more from her.
  5. painterZ

    painterZ New Member

    although I'm still confused...backing up a bit...let's talk about the Oceanic six (Hurley, Sun, Sayid, Jack, Kate, and Aaron)...according to Hurley they aren't
    currently living in reality...everything is too "perfect"...Jack has Kate, his practice, the chance to be a father...Kate's charges were dropped and she's living her dream...Sayid found his love (but then lost her, which seems to happen to them all...they're "perfect world" falls apart (Jack and his addiction)...Hurley once stated that his happiest time was in the psych ward without any money (initially he received what he wanted)...Sun just wanted her baby, and of course we don't know much about Aaron. And there's got to be something about why Hurley wrote down what Charlie said. I'm still not convinced that Charlie is dead. Is this all some odd illusion?

    I loved that Rose pointed out that Jack shouldn't be sick. It was obvious but I wouldn't have picked up on that without the character stating it.

    4ever...Yes, Jack was reading from Alice in Wonderland (my absolute most favorite book in the world:) ) I think that was another huge clue.

    I think I need to watch this one again. I'll check in with ya'll soon.

  6. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    It was touching to see Kate and Jack have a moment of happiness. Too bad it was only a moment.

    I agree that it was a relief to see why Jack went over the edge and became an addict.

    Why didn't Jack tell Kate he was seeing his dead father??? Surely after all the weirdness they went through on the island, she would understand!

    It wasn't until I watched the episode a second time that I realized why Kate was so quick to break up with Jack. It was because her father was an alcoholic, of course! At first I thought, wow, she's being hasty.

    When Hurley told Jack that Charlie said "You're not supposed to raise him." did anyone else wonder, as I did, if Charlie meant Jack is not supposed to raise Aaron, or if both Jack and Kate are not supposed to raise him? It was ambiguous.

    I wonder what the island wants with Claire???? What will it do with her???

    I still don't trust Dan or Charlotte one bit.

    The preview of next week was intriguing. They hint that John Locke is going to be someone's awaited savior. Wouldn't that be cool for him? Too bad I don't like him any more, since he's gotten so mean and violent.

    On the other hand, I like Sawyer now and I never used to. He's becoming a better person. It seems like he got some of his demons off his back when he killed the con man.

    Oh yeah, the other intriguing thing to me was when Jack said that Sawyer CHOSE to stay on the island. It sounds like a good choice for him, given his past.

    So dead people are pestering Hurley and Jack so far. Why aren't dead people pestering Kate, Sun, or Sayid? Are they not supposed to go back to the island?

    I admit, I was hoping that Smokey had killed all the mercenary soldiers. I was disappointed to see them still alive.

    Ooo, nice observation about the smoke alarm, 4everkid! It's a cute reference to Smokey. Well, one thing I know about dead people is that when they want to get the attention of a living person, they often tend to disrupt electronic devices. (This is a real, non-Lost-related phenomenon.)

    The smoke alarm had a low battery. It wasn't detecting smoke.

    Hey, Twinma, I wonder too when or if Jack will find out that Aaron is his nephew.

    Yeah, I was bummed too that Karl and Danielle are really dead. Who buried them? Those mercenaries??


    P.S. Oh wow, that was an interesting observation about the flash-forwards moving closer in time to the present. Cool, 4ever!

    [This Message was Edited on 05/02/2008]
  7. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    Did anyone else feel their heart break a little during this scene? Jorge Garcia is an incredible actor and there is so much more he brings to the character everytime we see him. I just love Hurley, he's always been my favorite.

    I was a bit disappointed that this was an epi so full of Jack again. I think he's focused on too much for what we actually learn from him. I would like to see more from some of the other characters. Like Hurley!!!:)
  8. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    TwinMa - Interesting speculation on Jack possibly learning from Christian that he is Aaron's uncle. And if he does know, that might be part of what is driving him to return to the island.

    I am definitely surprised Danielle is really dead. I hope they still manage to give us some background on her initital arrival on the island. There were unanswered questions there. The stuff she said about Brandon/Brenden has the key, and Montand losing his arm. That's right, I haven't forgotten.

    PainterZ - I still don't know what to make of Hurleys scene. I found the whole thing very disturbing. Everything does start out perfect for most the O6, then begins to fall apart. With Jack, Hurley and Sayid we see them revert back to their pre-island persona's. Jack and Hurley are being guided along by mysterious forces. They are supposed to go back...they have work to do...and all that.

    It reminds me of Ms. Hawking telling Desmond "you don't buy the ring. YOu get lost on an island where you push the buttons, turn the key, yada, yada, yada." Desmonds life was looking pretty perfect at that point too, till she guided him towards his fate. Charlies message to Jack sounds like more course correction to me. You were NOT MEANT TO raise him, Jack. I think that the O6 leaving the island has altered destiny. Things will continue in a downward spiral until the course is corrected for all of them.

    Forebearance - I agree that Jack should have just confided in Kate about his visions. And Kate should have been honest about what she was doing for Sawyer. That's always been a problem with these people. They don't communicate and share info.

    Good catch on Kates reason for steering clear of another alcoholic! What a shame. I was so happy for them for a few minutes.

    I imagine that eventually Kate, Sun and Sayid will see dead people and get the nudge to go back. If Jin is still alive, Sun will be driven by the need to reunite. Kate may be overcome with guilt, or some need may arise that makes her realize Aaron needs his mother.

    I went and found the transcript from season 1 - Raised By Annother", and here is what the psychic said to Claire when he learned she planned to give her baby up for adoption:

    "It is crucial that you, yourself, raise this child....This child parented by anyone else, anyone other than you -- danger surrounds this baby. . .Your nature, your spirit, your goodness, must be an influence in the development of this child.... There is no happy life -- not for this child, not without you.... It can't be another. You mustn't allow another to raise your baby.... Ms. Littleton, please. The baby needs your protection. Ms. Littleton, please."

    Claire tells Charlie what the psychic said in that episode. (I forgot that part myself.)

    Then later the guy contacts Claire with a plan for her to give her baby to a couple in LA..."good people". He gives her the plane ticket for 815 and insists it must be this plane, on this day. Was he forcing her to end up on the island (Knowing the plane would crash and she would survive) and she would be forced to raise him? Or was he payed off by someone else to change his story (maybe Ben?)Or was he simply correcting her course?

    But in reviewing that scene, it makes me think that something bad will happen concerning Aaron in Kate's care, and she will be forced to return him to the island to his mother.

    About the order of the flash forwards... up until now, they were moving in backward sequence. But once I said it, of course, they changed it. This one happened after Kates trial.

    I also came across the passage Jack read from the Alice book. I find the words intriguing and wonder how they fit in with what we are being presented.

    'Alice took up the fan...and, as the hall was very hot, she kept fanning herself all the time she went on talking: 'Dear, dear, how queer everything is today. And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: Was I the same when I got up this morning?...If I'm not the same, the next question is, who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle. '

    Hermitlady - It did seem awfully soon to have another Jack centric episode. But I guess that gets him out of the way so that the 3 part finale won't be all about him again. Next weeks episode "Cabin Fever" is a Lock centric flashback, and from what I have read, it will be another good one! I am really excited about it! After that, it's part 1 of the finale. I am so not ready to be talking finale!

    [This Message was Edited on 05/02/2008]
  9. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    As PainterZ mentioned above, it was curious how Rose pointed out that Jack shouldn't be sick on THIS island. I just came across a statement on The Fuselage that I found interesting. I didn't think of this, but it is worth repeating.

    "The island tried to prevent Jack from leaving but Juliet saved him." (posted by someone named "Clerks")

    Makes sense, with all we know about the island's wants and needs and crazy abilities, especially if Jack still has "work to do".

    Going with this idea, maybe it doesn't want Claire to leave either, so it kidnapped her. She must have some huge job to do for the island.

    It also makes me think of all the strange sets of circumstances that happened when all these people boarded 815. Charlie oversleeping and almost missing the flight, Hurley almost missing the flight, Sayid was delayed by security, Jack had a problem with his fathers coffin... Real life circumstances almost prevented them from making the flight, but SOMEHOW, they all made it. With Hurley especially, EVERYTHING was getting in his way. The gate had even closed and the plane was pulling away - then they opened it back up for Hurley. So was the island working back then to assure these people would make that flight?
  10. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Did anybody else stay up to watch Jimmy Kimmel last night? I did (foolishly). The exec producers of Lost were guests. They didn't give anything away, but they did say two interesting things.

    When Jimmy asked why the soldiers weren't killed by Smokey (which I wondered too!) they said that Smokey has rules to follow.

    Then they said something else interesting that I can't remember! Argh. CFS brain strikes. I'll add it if I remember it. I think it was about illness on the island.

    They said that new characters usually have 2 or 3 episodes to be interesting, and if they don't grab the producers the way Ben did, then those characters are ripe for killing off.

    Then they joked about Jimmy's question about why Jack's chest was shaved in his flash forward. I hadn't even noticed that he had gone from furry to bare.

    Terence Howard was also on the show, and he said he had auditioned for the part of Michael. I'm glad he didn't get it, because it works better for me when the parts are played by actors I don't already know. (except for Matthew Fox)
  11. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Cool Forebearance! Thanks for sharing that! So Smokey has rules too... interesting.

    Rules of conduct?
    Rules of physics?
    Rules of the road?
    If he has rules of conduct, then someone must have created him to set those rules. Smokey answers to someone. Or he was programed somehow by someone.

    I have been thinking a lot about Smokey and the island, and their relation to each other.

    The island wants these people here. It's their fate to be on this island, and they have work to do there. The island wont let them die till they do that work.

    Then Smokey is summoned by Ben to attack the mercenaries, but doesn't kill them. If the bad guys are allowed to survive, they can kill the very people the island wants there. In fact, they are supposed to kill everyone on the island, right? So do they also have work to do for the island, and it plans to protect its castaways from them? Their main objective is to kill Ben. Does the island also want Ben gone?

    In an interview Jimmy Kimmel had with the producers that was posted on the tvguide site, the following remark was made in regards to healing on the island. Is this related to the thing you forgot Forebearance?

    ""Carlton Cuse: The healing is related to the degree to which you are in communion with the island at any given moment. Perhaps Ben getting sick and needing surgery had to do with the fact that he had fallen out of favor, that his connection with the island was maybe not what it had been in the past.""

    So maybe the island DOES want him gone. Is it grooming candidates for Ben's replacement?

    I wish I would have caught the Kimmel show, but I am thrilled you told us what we missed! Thanks!


    Thought this was worth mentioning here in case no one has sen it:

    There is a theory being widely discussed that suggests Claire actually died in the explosion last week. We saw Christian, who we know is dead, holding the baby, so apparently dead people on this island can manipulate physical objects.

    Miles seemed awfully curious about her. That scene where he was peering down on Claire from above, and Sawyer came along and threatened him was really strange. It didn't seem like he was either lusting after her or planning her harm, like Sawyer suspected. More like he was studying her. Miles sees dead people all the time, but maybe he's confused because everyone else can see her.

    Check out this remark that Miles made right after Claire was carried back to Locke's cabin after the explosion:

    LOCKE: Claire?
    SAWYER: You all right, sweetheart?
    CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I'll live.
    MILES: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

    I don't like this theory at all. I don't want Claire to be dead! But in a strange Lost Island way, it kinda makes sense. It would explain Aaron getting left behind and why Kate took him with her when she left the island.

    My mind is branching off in about 42 different ways from this episode! I need to go watch a mindless sitcom or something.

  12. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Yes, 4everkid, that was the exact thing I was trying to remember! Thanks for looking it up!

    You're right! Miles did seem awfully curious about Claire, and it seemed to be in a professional way rather than a creepy way. (Although he is creepy enough in general.)

    It would sure give his remark to Claire about not living greater meaning!

    Welcome, tleaw! It is fun to compare notes with other Lost-watchers and see what everyone noticed. And it's fun to speculate together. This show really provides a lot of food for thought!


    P.S. One other thing from that Jimmy Kimmel show. The producers and Terence Howard were talking together and Terence joked that there had to be at least two black characters on the show at all times. Then one of the producters (Damon?) speculated about whether Smokey counted as a black character. He decided not, saying he was a "Smokey American". ha ha

    But wouldn't Smokey actually be a Pacific Islander? :)
  13. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Yeah, this show is unlike any other. It is like a gigantic multi-layered mystery filled with hints and clues. I didn't know about the clues until part way through the first season, then had to go back and rewatch and tape the reruns, then the rest of the series. I always watch once for fun and shock, then a second time to search for background clues. Sometimes a third.

    The writers said way back in the beginning that every prop and every name was chosen for a reason.

    I just ran across this today on Lostpedia.com about Keamy, the head mercenary:

    Full name - Martin Christopher Keamy
    The name Martin comes from the Latin Martinus, which means "Servant of Mars" or "Servant of War".
    In Mayan Astrology, the sign CIMI, pronounced the same way as Martin's last name, means DEATH.
    And Christopher...Who hasn't noticed how much the guy seems much like a young Christopher Walken?

    And that's just Keamy. Names like Locke, Rousseau, Farraday and many others have a much more profound meaning. Charlotte Staples Lewis = C.S. Lewis, author of Alice in Wonderland and Through The Looking Glass, whose middle name is also Staples.

    I have stated here a gazillion times before that online discussion makes a huge difference in how much you gain from each episode.

    The writers do know exactly where they are going and how it will end. They may change or add some stuff along the way, but there is a definite end plan.

    YOu should go back and watch the DVD's from the start! I want to do that too, but keep procrastinating. I feel that as the series has progressed, I am much better at picking up on the clues than I was in the beginning.

    Plus, you should visit some of the great sites online devoted to Lost. That's the best way to find all the stuff you missed!
  14. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    tleaw, these are my favorites, the ones I can't live without:


    Everything about Lost. Everything! Use the search bar on the left to maneuver, or the index at the bottom of the page. Or click on episodes at the top and see all the details about each one.


    This is the discussion board created by the producers. You may have to register, I can't remember. Great place for discussion! No trolls or childishness there. I always log in before Lost starts, so I don't get stuck in the traffic jam later after the show airs. Scroll down to the season, then the episode. There is a specific board for each episode, and a gazillion other topics.


    Then to see all the hidden clues, and screencaps requested by people searching for clues:


    Lots of pages! At the bottom of each page, click the arrow to go to previous episodes and pictures. Watch out for the spoilers page, unless you want to be spoiled!

    I have more, but I guarantee these 3 will keep you busy for a while. And between these three, pretty much everything is covered.

    I'm sure the others will have some suggestions too.
  15. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I completely overlooked your last post! Don't know how I managed to do that.
    The "Smokey American" remark cracked me up! How funny! Now I can't wait for one of my kids to mention the black smoke monster, so I can correct them.