Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    ~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~
    .......... 4:8 "Meet Kevin Johnson" ..........

    Woooo Hooooo! It's Lost time again! Tonight we get to find out what happened with Walt & Michael (aka Kevin) since they floated away at the end of season 2. (In island time, they have only been gone roughly a month.)

    I could try to guess, but I know these writers well enough by now to know that my guess would be nowhere close!

    So many questions. Where is Walt? Why is he so big after just a month? Did they get lost in some other time? Why did he keep appearing, almost ghost-like, on the island?

    Supposedly tonight we will get a lot of answers regarding the father/son duo. Then we are supposed to be left in the end with a nice cliffhanger to keep us baffled over the next month. Yep, that's right... this is the last pre-strike episode, and we have to wait till late April for #9.

    There is NO enhanced rerun tonight, as they are airing a new program, "Miss Guided" in it's spot.

    So dim the lights, unplug the phone, put the kids and pets to bed, and gather your Lost watching supplies. Elaine get those ear cones and duct tape ready! Tell your new guy that tonight you have a date with Kevin Johnson!

  2. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    My grand daughter came over right in the middle of the show, so I missed about 15 minutes!! Darn it! I saw that Michael was trying to kill himself with the car, but didn't die. Then I saw him fighting with the Island guy in the alley.

    So I think I missed why he isn't with Walt anymore. Where is Walt????? Or did they not really tell us.

    The ending was a cliff hanger!! I wonder if the French lady is really dead?? I can't remember anyone's name right now!! The boyfriend sure looked dead. I heard that someone would die, but not that two would die. Wonder what is going to happen to Alex. Did Ben shoot her mom and boyfriend? Ben didn't look happy to see the boyfriend put his hand on Alex's butt. Is that why he had him killed???

    Now we wait!! I'm going to Florida tomorrow night, but I will be sure to check this post before I go! Can't wait to see what 4ever and the rest of you have to say!!

  3. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    That was excellent! So many things falling into place!

    There is no way that Michael & Walt traveled by that little boat all the way to the US, then Manhattan, plus all the flashback stuff, and back by freighter, in ONE month. Plus, there is no way Tom traveled by sub to the US and back, when we saw him almost every day on Hydra Island with the captives. Something else has to be at work in the area of transportation to and from this island. It must be connected to whatever sent the polar bear to Tunisia.

    The island wont let people die until they have completed the job it wants them to do. HUGE reveal!!! That explains Mikhail's multiple non deaths, Charlie surviving hanging in season 1, Desmond surviving the hatch implosion,& why Jack was not successful in jumping off the bridge in the future. He HAS to go back because he still has "work to do". The island caused the car crash, knowing Jack would stop and save them. If he had jumped, he would have survived.

    What the heck is this island anyway?

    Michaels job is to protect the secrecy of the island, and the lives of its inhabitants, through Ben. Jack finally understands this in the future. This explains why Jack wants to die, and why he goes to the funeral. Guilt. It's Michael in the casket. He finally completed his job, returned, and successfully committed suicide. The island is hidden, & Jack can't find it.

    Sayid sure ratted out Michael without thinking. He was still angry over the deaths of Libby & Anna Lucia. Now the following makes sense:

    From The Economist:
    BEN: ...These people don’t deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?

    SAYID: You used that to recruit me into killing for you.

    BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid?

    On the freighter, Miles knows that Michael is not who he says he is because dead Libby's ghost told him. Maybe that has something to do with how he knows so much about Ben. The island's ghosts tell him everything.

    Dar, I think you are right. Ben had Karl & Danielle shot because they took Alex's affections away from him. In Ben's mind, she's his. Poor Karl. But I don't believe for a second that Danielle is really dead. The island kept her alive too, when all her group died from the sickness. I think she still has work to do too. And we have yet to know her backstory!

    Was Frank's errand to deliver the sharpshooters to the island?

    Could Walt be unstuck in time? He barely talks and he wakes up screaming. Desmond was staring into space while he slipped in time, then woke up freaked out. I'm very confused over this.
    Plus, if Walt has been at Grandma's all this time, how did we see him on the island? Maybe he was able to travel there mentally and manifest physically to some degree. Then, to confused things further, tonights glimpse of Walt showed him to be the normal 10 year old size. I need to sleep on this one!

    Widmore really did stage the fake crash site! And there are papers to prove it! The bodies came from Thailand. That's where Jack went and got his tattoo. Not sure if there is any connection there or not.

    Ben claims he won't kill the innocent. But it doesn't count if he has someone else do it.

    "The good guys" = people who work to help the island.

    Frank is not in on the mission. When they head out to sea, he thinks the freighter is on a rescue mission.

    Tom says SOME can come and go from the island. Are those people allowed by privilege to go, or defined by the ability to go?

    And finally, the watch Jin was supposed to deliver to LA for Mr. Paik makes a reappearance! I have been wondering if they forgot that. I always wondered if there was something important inside.

    All-in-all, a lot of stuff was revealed tonight. I feel a little cheated in the Walt department, but I guess I can't have all the answers at once.
  4. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Molly - right. I forgot about the month he was still on the island with the Others. So sad that the only thing keeping Mike from seeing his son is the fact that he can't talk to anyone about the island.

    I did a little research and here is how Walt's timeline stacks up:

    Day 1 - Plane crash
    Day 44 - Walt captured by the Others on the raft
    Day 44 - Shannon sees an apparition of Walt, wet and speaking backwards
    Day 47 - Shannon sees backwards-speaking wet Walt again
    Day 67 - Walt is rescued and he and Michael head home on the boat
    Day 87 - The freighter left port with Michael on board
    Day 94 - Locke sees a much larger Walt after he is shot in the mass grave
    Day 99 - Present island time

    So Shannon saw him twice while he was with the Others, and Locke saw him once while he was with his Grandma in Manhattan. He did not seem to be physically there when Shannon saw him, but he looked pretty solid when Locke saw him. But still, somehow he didn't seem quite real.

    I wonder if, what ever he was doing to project himself to be seen by Shannon, was something he got much better at by the time he appeared to Locke.

  5. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    That part must have happened during the 10 to 15 minutes I missed. So he was 10 years old again?? How in the heck did they do that?? He must be much taller by now knowing how fast kids grow.

    I'm off to Florida!

    [This Message was Edited on 03/21/2008]
  6. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Man, I found this week's episode to be depressing and yucky. I hate it when they kill people in seemingly random and callous ways.

    It seems suspicious to me, too, that Ben might have been behind the shooters who were aiming at Karl and Alex and Danielle. The people that Ben dislikes always seem to have a way of dying.

    Man, it freaked me out to see Tom appear in an alley in Manhattan after he was dead! Was he dead by then?

    The allusions to some form of time/space travel are piling up. Maybe that was what Ben meant by the box that gives them anything they want on the island.

    And Tom is gay???? lol I didn't see that one coming!

    It was nice to see Libby again, even if only for a split second.

    The second time I watched it, I noticed the Christmas tree in the hospital hallway outside Michael's room.

    I agree with you 4ever, that I am now wondering What IS this island? It has a mind and a will and can make people do things??? (or not die, at least?)

  7. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Forebearance, Michael saw Tom in NY sometime between days 67-87. Then Tom was killed on day 92-93. So the flashback scene was from before he died. I read where someone had pinned down about 4 days during the Hydra Island period where Tom was absent.

    Dar, Walt appeared very briefly looking out his grandma's upstairs window as Michael left. There's a few different screencaps of him on this page:

    (scroll way down for the better one.)

    (Have a great trip to Florida!)

    It looks so much like Walt that people are wondering if the shot was computer enhanced. Maybe they imposed his 10-year-old face onto another 10-year-old's body.

    Strange that he's a boy again after they verbally addressed the issue on the show of him being much larger. There must be more to his story. They have obviously gone to some trouble to make him appear as if he hadn't grown, in spite of the fact that we already saw him big.

    I wonder if this is similar to Richards unaging. Only Walt aged, then de-aged somehow. But since he wasn't physically there on the island when he was seen as "Larger Ghost Walt" (or whatever Sawyer called him) why would his manifestation be older???

    I give up!
  8. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    Michael has always been my least favorite character for some reason. I wasn't that thrilled to see his return.

    The episode was OK for me, I was bummed to find out we won't get a new epi until later in April. I guess I forgot about that.

  9. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I have been wondering where you were!
    Yeah, I don't think too many people were very crazy about Michael. He was an angry guy to begin with, and it just went downhill from there.
    When they played the "previously on Lost" recaps, and Michael let out his famous cry, "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT!!", I felt the entire universe of Lost fans cringe in annoyance.
  10. painterZ

    painterZ New Member

    It's Saturday at 1:30 a.m. and I finally got to see this weeks episode...once again I'll need to review it. I knew they wouldn't kill off any major character...I had no doubt that all the yummy dudes...Desmond, Sawyer, and Said were safe from execution. I was actually so proud of myself for guessing that Micheal was the one in the casket...I actually got something right:) It's a bit too late, or too early depending on your view, to contemplete too much right now. Hopefully I'll review it later today and have some more insight.

    Just wanted to say "hey" to my LOST buddies...we need to stick together during LOST withdrawal:)

  11. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I just finally got to watch this episode last night (Sat night), so I haven't had much time to process it yet, but here are my initial observations.

    At first, when Michael tried to kill himself with the car accident and he woke up in the hospital, I thought he must be thinking "Doh!!" (ala Homer Simpson). And I was thinking, "Boy, this guy can't get anything right!"

    Then the second time, when the gun wouldn't fire, I just thought it was kind of funny.

    By the third time, when the little flag popped up saying "NOT YET", I was really laughing. It was very Road Runner and Wiley Coyote to me.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think suicide is funny. Far from it. I know first hand the pain it causes.

    But, come on! Don't you guys think it was funny?! It really does seem like Michael can't get anything right.

    Wasn't he in the hospital for a long time after Walt was born? I can't remember what that was about.

    As far as Big Walt, maybe he was time tripping. After all, Walt does have special abilities. And it seems the island has some special plans for him. I wondered, though, if he just didn't look bigger because Locke was laying down in a hole (grave) and looking up at him. Perspective may have made him appear bigger than he really was.

    I liked that they used another Mama & Papas song. I'm not sure of the name of the one the Michael keeps hearing, but I'm sure it must be M&P. The other time we heard M&P was with Desmond's flashback. "Make Your Own Kind of Music". Anyone else catch the name of the song?

    And how about Ben saying he doesn't kill innocent people. Ha! How about gassing all those Dharma people? (it was Dharma people, right?). And killing his dad in the van. And many others. I guess his definition of "innocent" is pretty narrow. He probably thinks anyone who has done him wrong or tried to take what is "his" is not innocent. Twisted dude.

    As usual, good observations, 4everkid and others (Not THAT kind of Others, though, lol). Dar, hope you are having fun in FLA.

  12. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I had one more comment about Mr. Friendly being gay. I guess it wasn't that big a surprise. Remember how he threw the football with Jack? That was definitely a girl throw. Heck, I can throw a football better than that! LOL.
  13. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    PainterZ, I wish I had your confidence. I worry about Desmond every week. He looked kind of freaked out, and all doe-eyed this episode, with very few lines. I was getting a "red shirt" feeling from him. I know Sayid survives, I just hope Des will too.

    TwinMa, Yes, Michael has always been kind of a screw up at everything he does, but I found his foiled suicide attempts kind of intense. But by the time he got to the gun, it was obvious there was more to it. That stupid flag popping up just made me mad, for him.

    I think there is much more to the Walt story, and I fully expect it to be something really unconventional. So much was made of his "special" abilities, and the fact that he was more than Ben could handle, that they wouldn't just send him home to live with grandma - end of story.

    I just erased some stuff I wrote, because it spawned a better theory!!

    What if.....

    We know the Oceanic 6 made it off the island. And with Jack and Hurley already showing their desire to return, they will probably all spend next season trying to figure out how to go back.
    Say Michael was the one in the coffin, and the only person who knew the way back...... except for maybe WALT! Maybe the O6 go find Walt, tell him what was happening on the island when they left years ago, and how they need to return to help their friends.

    Now, in hindsight, they know that their biggest mistake was contacting the freighter. So Walt, who is still special, and maybe has had time to master his abilities by now, decides to use those abilities to make contact with Locke, who he had a special "special" connection with. He sends his consciousness, manifested in physical form, to the past to warn Locke that contacting the freighter must be stopped at all costs. So Locke heads off to the tower, where he knives Naomi in the back.

    So the Walt we saw at Grandma's house was still ten. But the Walt we saw with Locke at the Dharma gravesite was future Walt contacting Locke to warn him of impending doom. It's like they are sending a message back to themselves, through Walt.

    I bet he also tried this when The Others had him locked up, when Shannon saw him. Only he was younger, and not skilled at it yet.

    I like this! I wonder if anyone else out there had come up with this theory yet?
  14. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    That's a good theory, 4everkid.

    Hey, TwinMa, the song on the radio Michael was playing before he tried to kill himself was something about 'stronger every day'. I didn't recognize it as a Mammas and Poppas song! Cool.

    It made me wonder. If you were going to kill yourself, would you bother to turn on the radio first??? lol

    Right after Walt was born, I believe Michael was hit by a car as he was crossing a street. The poor guy can't get a break.

    I guess we know now what Sayid did that involved him thinking with his emotions. It was interesting to me, too, that Desmond appeared to disapprove of Sayid's actions, but couldn't stop him.

    There is a lot of stuff in Lost about the consequences of personal choices. There have been a number of times when somebody did something in spite of the objections of others, and regretted it later.

    It's still so confusing morally, because I am not sure that Ben and John and "the island" are the good guys. They've acted like bad guys. But the people on the freighter seem like even badder guys.

    Who to root for???
  15. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    TwinMa & Forebearance,
    I had read that the song was one of Cass Elliot's from her solo years. I just looked it up and it's called "It's Getting Better" from 1969.

    Regarding Ben & John, I always kind of imagined that what we have seen John go through is what Ben went through too.

    John started out with good intentions. He loved and respected the island because it gave him back his legs. Before the island, he was a nerdy little nobody, so needy for affection that he let people take advantage of him. Now, on the island he is vital and strong, and at first people respected him. He became empowered, but then he let that power go to his head. Everyone who doesn't agree with him becomes the enemy. Anyone who gets in his way, is in danger of getting hurt. He and Ben both are like cult members who worship the island.

    But Ben has taken that to the next level, one that John is quickly approaching. Once Ben discovered the secrets of the island, he began to use that magic (whatever it is) to control people. Originally he was protecting the island to keep it safe from corruption and exploitation by outsiders. But now, he is hiding the island so he can have its magic all to himself. I think when Ben's time comes to die, it will be the island that takes his life.

    When it comes down to who is worse between Ben or Widmore, I would say Widmore. Although Bens motives are no longer altruistic, the island is still free from corruption and exploitation. Ben wants to live and reign there. No telling what plans Widmore has for the island, but I doubt he will be content to live the island life, or give the island what it wants.
  16. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I keep forgetting to ask this...

    Why the heck did Alex give herself up at the end? (assuming that she thinks the freighter people are behind the shootings) Her boyfriend and her mother were already shot....what did she hope to gain? Jumping up and saying "I'm Ben's daughter..." is almost like suicide. They will either kill or capture her. Why didn't she either hide or run? I don't get it!

    Furthermore, if it was the freighter people, and they do kidnap her, will Ben give himself up for the sake of his "daughter's" safety?

    Also, the easter egg site has pictures that compare the old guy in the hospital bed next to Michael, to Alvar Hanso. It actually does look a lot like the same guy.

  17. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    I keep wondering if Widmore has plans to get rid of handsome Desmond before Penny is able to find him. Her daddy doesn't seem to want them to be together, altho he did give Des Penny's # so he could contact her. I don't get that one.

    Is Ben really telling the truth about Widmore wanting to use the island as a tourist attraction or what ever? Does Ben even know how to tell the truth?

    As soon as Ben told Alex and Carl to go to the safe place, I just knew it was a set up. Carl was a pretty disposable character, but he filled the spot for another death on the show. I doubt Danielle is dead, probably just a flesh wound :)

    Sayid couldn't have been so careless as to turn Michael in without a motive, don't you think? He must have a plan up his sleeve.

    I still need to watch it a second time, once is just not enough!
  18. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I enjoyed your thoughts, everkid and hermitlady!

    I think Alex wanted to be a hostage rather than to be killed.

    There was something different about the sound of those bullets that hit Karl and Danielle. I don't think I've heard guns on the island sound like that before. I hope Danielle isn't really dead!

    I am not sure I trust what Ben says about Widmore or about anything else, for that matter. We have been led to think Widmore is a bad man, because of the way he treated Des and the way he beat up a guy on a video tape.

    Yes, I see what you mean about John following the same path that Ben might have followed.

    If Ben and John are on the island's "side", is the island itself a good or evil entity? Is the island's will something we want to have happen, or not?

    It seems so innocent. After all, it's a beautiful island. It's nature. How could it have bad intentions?

    I just don't know!

    I really hope Sayid did have a plan when he exposed Michael. It felt to me like he was just getting revenge against Ben. I'm still very curious about how Sayid will come to work for Ben in the end.

  19. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Hermitlady, since you bring it up.... there is a lot of time between now and the end of the series for Desmond to run into snags in his mission to be reunited with Penny. Its probably not likely Penny will cruise right up to he beach and pick Des up, and they float off into the sunset. So you are probably right, that Widmore will intercept somehow and cause more problems for them.

    When Sayid turned Mike in, everyone (myself included) jumped to assume that this must be the instance in which Sayid acted with his heart and ended up working for Ben. Now I am remembering how the writers like to trick us. We have been set up before with Locke/injuries and Michael/car crashes that we thought would be "the one", but weren't. Plus other fake-outs I can't remember. So Sayid may have a plan indeed!

    I don't trust Ben either. He seems to say whatever it takes to have the most effect on whatever person he is talking to. Lie or not. Locke would never want his precious island commercialized, so that was a good story for him. Ben said himself, "Same way I get anybody to do anything. I find out what he's emotionally invested in, and I exploit it."

    As I pasted that quote, I drifted off, thinking about each character and what they are emotionally invested in. We have seen Ben put that tactic to work on:
    1. Jack -using Juliet to soften him up because she looks like Sarah
    2. Michael and his need to get WAAAAAAAlt back.
    3. Locke and his love of the island
    4. Locke and his desire to NOT be controlled by Jack
    5. Locke and his hatred for his father

    Then I came to Sayid, who is emotionally invested in his love for Nadia, and his need to find her. Hmmmm, I wonder if she could come into play causing Sayid to act with his heart instead of his gun. It would be just like Ben to use her to get Sayid to do his dirty work. (Now I am going to be thinking about emotional investments all night.)

    Forbearance, That is a very good point you bring up about the island and whether it's intentions are good or evil. I never really considered that. And you are right, most people probably assume that the lush, green, tropical paradise has only good and wholesome plans for its inhabitants. But who knows, maybe it feeds on humans, or is the gateway to he!! or something. Just kidding. But you are right...should we trust the island??

    Seriously, I have a hard time believing that the island WANTS anything. It seems so archaic, like something primitive people would believe - like a sun god, a moon god, an ocean god...an island. Maybe these people have been holed up here too long! I can see the island having mysterious unexplained properties. And I can see how primitive 4-toed-islanders might have considered the island a god with magical powers. Ben has been there since childhood and didn't have any solid parental figures to teach him. So maybe he would believe this stuff. But I am having trouble with it. I am not against the idea, but I am curious to see how this gets explained.
  20. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hee hee! I was thinking along the lines of "maybe the island wants to take over the world"!

    I love the idea of it being the gateway to he!!

    But... maybe it's actually the powers that be on the island who "want" something. Maybe it is inhabited by ghosts, spirits, gods, or ????

    One of whom could be Jacob. Or maybe it's just Jacob.

    Locke began saying "the island wants" this or that. Ben followed suit, framing it in the same way John was. But he may be going along with John's ideas for his own purposes.

    It does seem like a primitive religion. But hey, the Heaven's Gate cult was even less believable. It WILL be interesting to see how it's explained. And how the four-toed statue fits in!