Low progesterone increases kinans = increased histamines +

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by lilwren, Jun 8, 2003.

  1. lilwren

    lilwren New Member

    causes adrenal stress.

    Just reading yet ANOTHER book - What’s Your Menopause Type? by Joseph Collins. I’m on Chapter 5 - and I just read the info below and wanted to share it with you guys. I’m so pissed! I begged my doctors for years to test my hormones AND finally after all these years the nurse ‘hears’ me and does the test for me and my estrogen is high and progesterone is zero. Since (just read this) the adrenals produce progesterone maybe that’s why I’m (we're) having adrenal insufficiency. BUT the million dollar question is why is my progesterone so low? I’ll have to read more and get back to you all on that one. Is it because I shot my adrenals? Soooo maybe if I correct the progesterone the adrenals will follow? Aaaah, I can dream. :) LOL

    *****************Progesterone and Estrogen Imbalance

    During menopause, some women maintain adequate levels of estrogen because their adrenal glands produce more androstenedione, which is converted to estrogen. The adrenal glands may also continue to make adequate progesterone, in which case an ideal balance is maintained. If progesterone levels are not high enough to balance the actions of estrogen, however, significant health problems can result.

    Since the late 1980s, this condition has been referred to as “estrogen dominance”—though a more accurate description would be “progesterone deficiency.” This progesterone deficiency is most pronounced when there is still enough estrogen present, but not enough estrogen present, but not enough progesterone. If there is a dual deficiency of both estrogen and progesterone, the increased symptoms and health risks may not be as evident.

    In the early 1990s my studies into the relationship between estradiol (the most potent estrogen) and progesterone led me to recognize that the ratio between progesterone and estradiol could have a major impact on how women felt. By the mid-1990s, I was calculating the progesterone-to-estradiol ratio in women who had the saliva hormone test performed. Later, when I started my work in diagnostic laboratories, I made P:E ratio analysis a routine part of menopause testing. With P:E ratio analysis, we finally had a number to tell us if a women was “progesterone deficient.” Now you can monitor your estrogen-progesterone balance by calculating your P:E ratio.

    Before menopause, P:E ratios vary from about 20:1 (20 parts progesterone to 1 part estrogen) to about 170:1, depending on the time of the month. For pregnancy to occur, an ideal ratio of 30:1 or possibly 60:1 may be needed. For many women, the highest natural P:E ratio is about 120:1. A low P:E ratio (such as 10:1) can lead to infertility in premenopausal women and abnormal uterine bleeding in women of menopausal age. An increased risk for breast cancer also has been attributed to a low P:E ratio.

    A low P:E ratio represents unopposed estrogen, which means there is not enough progesterone to oppose (or balance) the actions of estrogen. As estrogen stimulates the nervous system, it should always be balanced with the proper amount of progesterone, so as not to produce the anxiety seen with fluctuations of these hormones. Irritability, pain, inflammation, and increased risk of breast and uterine cancer can occur with a low P:E ratio. A saliva progesterone of 100 with an estrogen of 6.0 would give a P:E ratio of less than 17:1 (not healthy).

    A high P:E ratio isn’t healthy, either, since it can promote insulin resistance, depression, fatigue, and a decreased libido.

    Keep these ratios in mind when you have your hormones tested. Your body should have between 20 to 170 molecules of progesterone to one molecule of estrogen. To arrive at this ratio, divide the progesterone by the estrogen. For example, a progesterone of 100 divided by 2.5 gives a P:E ratio of 40:1, which is in the normal range of 20:1 to 170:1. Note: This P:E ratio must be calculated from tests which are measured in pMol or nMol, since we are concerned about molecule ratios.

    Pain and Inflammation. A low progesterone to estrogen ratio is associated with increased levels of molecules that cause inflammation. These molecules are called kinins. Estrogen increases kinin levels, and giving progesterone can decrease them. Kinins occur naturally in the body but promote the release of histamines. In conditions of allergic inflammation, kinins are elevated. High levels of kinins are linked to asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, and a number of bowel diseases.

    Pain and Inflammation. A low progesterone to estrogen ratio is associated with increased levels of molecules that cause inflammation. These molecules are called kinins. Estrogen increases kinin levels, and giving progesterone can decrease them. Kinins occur naturally in the body but promote the release of histamines. In conditions of allergic inflammation, kinins are elevated. High levels of kinins are linked to asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, and a number of bowel diseases”.

    Excerpt from - What’s Your Menopause Type? by Joseph Collins

    **********

    The book has a questionnaire to determine your type – you can also do it on-line at yourmenopause (edited to remove URL). I found out I’m a Type 9 – low progesterone / high testosterone / high estrogen. Plus, the blood test last week confirmed it. Is this why more women get CFS or Fibro than men?

    Have your hormones checked ladies! I’m 39 - I’m not saying we’re going through menopause – just saying this sounds like it could be a BIG part of our problems.

    Love,
    Sharon L
  2. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    i have been told i am probably deficient in osetrogen as well........
    i will be getting tested as soon as i can afford to.....
    i am 49 and i have been tested and told that i am now going into menopause.

    so much to learn.........
    thanks for the info
    pinkquartz
  3. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Hi Sharon,

    Does that book tell you the name of the test that would measure your progesterone/estrogen ratio in pMol or nMol?
    AND would a family practice physician be able to test for this or do you have to go to GyN doc? I am in perimenopause..does it tell you which hormone supplementation is the best way to go?

    THANKS FOR ANY HELP,
    Plantscaper
  4. lilwren

    lilwren New Member

    I know Pink - there is so much to learn! It really sucks if you ask me! BUT it's the only way I've been able to make any progress - by educating myself!

    Plantscaper - The book talks about doing a saliva test. My doc did blood. I will ask her tomorrow what the blood test is called, and also ask about the saliva test. In the back of the book the author says you can get saliva test kits at his web site yourmenopause and a dot com – don’t know much more about the saliva test than that. I’ve been to the site, but I did the questionnaire. I’ll have to go back and look at the saliva test.

    If you can – try to do the questionnaire and see what ‘type’ you are. Maybe that will give you some ideas for which hormone needs supplementing. I did the questionnaire and told my doctor the ‘type’ it said and she prescribed progesterone (oral capsule). It’s the fifth night since I started it and there are some weird things going on. I’m actually getting sleepy at night (hasn’t happened in two years) and I’m having horrible breast pain. I think it’s shrinking the fibroid cysts in my breasts. The dose is at 20 mg right now, but goes up to 200 mg on day 18 – 26.

    Your gyn might know about it – mine didn't. You could try. I’ll post more after I talk to the doc tomorrow.

    Love,
    Sharon L
  5. lilwren

    lilwren New Member

    I just remembered that my doc had me do two questionnaires -one at europahealth dot com and one at yourmenopause dot com. The europahealth one deduced I needed a combo of mostly progesterone with a tiny bit of estrogen. The one at yourmenopause deduced I needed only progesterone. Then the blood test confirmed I did not need estrogen because it was already through the roof.

    Maybe it would help with your doc if you did both of them and printed them out and took them and demanded a hormone test. Just a thought.

    Oh how I want my brain back - it works sometimes and then others it's just fog. :)

    Love,
    Sharon L