Lumbrokinase or Nattokinase?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Plantscaper, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Has anyone on this board used either one of these products in fighting hypercoagulation with a integrative or holistic doc or by oneself? Very interested in their potential for this as an alternative to Heparin...

    Or for the prevention of blood clots (I know of some D.O.s who recommend it for this purpose)..

    Plantscaper

    [This Message was Edited on 08/17/2003]
  2. isee

    isee New Member

    My naturopath gave nattokinase to me a month ago. I took it for about 2 wks. then stopped. Couldn't find a way to schedule it because I had to take it on an empty stomach. I think it did have a positive effect on my brain fog, but can't be sure.

    I'll probably go back to it, but for now I'm taking heparin along with Vitamin C, in an IV. I'm off it too because I'm on an elimination diet that excludes soy. Nattikinase is soy-based, therefore I can't take until I begin adding soy back into diet.

    Nattokinase works differently from heparin. My naturopath says that heparin removes fibrin and thins the blood, whereas nattokinase only removes fibrin. Neither actually removes the pathogens that create the excess fibrin. For that, one has to use transfer factor or antibiotic or oleic acid, or some other antiviral or antifungal that will kill the specific pathogen.

    The nattokinase I bought was expensive:$72 for 30 tabs!

    Anna

    Anna
  3. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    I appreciate your experiential response..If it would remove the fibrin, that would be enough for me..I know of other supplements for thinning the blood, in fact, I am on many of those...Has your naturopath used the Nattokinase in many patients? It would be great if it would help with Brain fog or the neurological symptoms..

    I am on OLE and some other supplements for pathogens..What does your naturopath use for the pathogens?

    Do you think that the heparin has made a difference in your symptoms and in what way?

    Thanks so much for your response..there are not many who have used these products...

    Plantscaper
  4. crissyfamily

    crissyfamily New Member

    i'm on heparin and lumbrokinase for about 8 weeks now. Notice nothing good yet...hasn't taken pain away.. The lumbrokinase is for removing the fibrin...I'm also on cipro and have been since late march.. Husband has been on same things and notice nothing different yet. Maybe time is the key ingredient.

    Sorry nothing much to say but wanted to say something since our whole family including my 2 daughers is on heparin. The girls are on heparin troches(like gooey cough drops from a compounding pharmacy) and the doc said they did not need lumbrokinase since they were so young in their teens and dr. berg said their coagulation would not be so bad due to their youth....

    my doc is holistic, endocronologist, was a compounding pharmacist and studied chinese herbs so she uses a combination of everything...but prefers natural whenever possible.

    take care

    crissy
  5. isee

    isee New Member

    Hi,

    I'm not sure how often my naturopath prescribes Nattokinase. He told me that often nattokinase can be gentler than heparin. I'm guessing it's because it doesn't work on viscosity of blood, so doesn't stir things up as much.

    As for pathogens... hw uses different things, he says, depending on the pathogen. Pathogens can be bacterial, viral, fungal,etc., and each one warrants a different drug or supplement. He uses transfer factors, OLE, abx, and, I think, cholestyramine for neurotoxins.

    I'll probably taka a PCR test in a week or two, to identify
    the critters. Transfer factors are tailored for specific pathogens, which is why people should be tested for pathogens. Apparently, there are dozens of tranfer factors, which act like vaccines in our bodies, producing antibodies to a specific pathogen.

    I've only had two infusions of heparin in IV therapy;it's too early to tell. And, too hard, I think, because I'm also getting 6000 mg of Vit. C., as well as B6 and B12.

    Thanks for the post on nattokinase, I'd wondered about the reactions others had had to it.

    Anna
  6. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

    out if you have this condition with
    your blood. Noone has ever mentioned
    anything odd about my blood...except
    they've told me and my mother both
    not to take vitamins, that we didn't
    need them..??! Any info would be appreciated. Hugs, Bambi
  7. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Some supplements that thin blood are:

    Vitamin E
    Ginkgo Biloba
    Chondroitin (thins so well it reduces the risk of fatal heart attack by 400%)



    Klutzo
  8. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Hi CrissyFamily,

    Thanks for sharing your experiences..If I am to understand this, is it correct that the Lumbrokinase is effective for the fibrin removal, but not for thinning the blood? and vice versa...that the heparin is effective for the thinning of blood..I hope that your family will progress along well with all the effort you are putting into it..As I have no physician with training in hypercoagulation, I was going to first try the Lumbrokinase or Nattokinase options...

    Thanks to Isee, too, for sharing so much,

    Do you know what would be killed if you use the Transfer Factor C..for what viruses? (which I assume it is for)..It has been touted on this board as more effective than some of the regular Transfer Factor..Of course, I have been on OLE for many months, but suspect that there are further critters to be caused great bodily harm...Have you found that the Questran was highly effective for the neurotoxins, and how do they test for that? (neurological problems are the worse symptom for me)

    Hope all goes well with all,
    I was missing in action, yesterday (with nauseating circumstances)
    Plantscaper





  9. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    You should talk to JELLYBELLY about hypercoagulation and visit the HEMEX site..
  10. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    If anyone has experience or knowledge of both Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase, which is better at removing Fibrin? I am taking Bromelain between meals to do some of the job, and many digestive enzymes at meals..Also, considering the Woebyzym or Inflazyme Forte, too...

    Many Thanks for any help, here...
    Hope all goes well with you all..
    Plantscaper
  11. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

  12. crissyfamily

    crissyfamily New Member

    yes, lumbrokinase assists in removing the fibrin and heparin thins the blood.....

    take care
    crissy
  13. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member