Lyme - herxing from ABX protocol

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by happygranny, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. happygranny

    happygranny Member

    As I posted on the 16th I was given a clinical Dx of Lyme and started the ABX protocol of Ketek and Flagyl on the 23rd.

    I started herxing right away, within 24 hours and still am.

    This is a good thing, because it verify's the Diagnosis of Lyme and/or one of it's co-infections. I might still have the Igenex Western Blot test to really be sure, but right now something is happening and that is a relief.

    So far the herxing isn't totally incapacitating me, but I do feel pretty miserable and need to lay down a lot, and use more pain meds. From what I have read it will likely get worse.

    I started the Abx at half dose and have upped it to full dose today. That is 400 mgs Ketek 2 x a day and 500 mg Flagyl ( that is to get the bacteria that are hiding in cysts) 2 x a day.

    Wish me luck.

    happygranny
  2. hopeful4

    hopeful4 New Member

    I do wish you an easy-as-possible time with this treatment. As you say, the good news is you're herxing!

    I'll be joining you very soon, when my ABX arrive by mail. I've read from other's posts that if the herxing becomes too strong, that you can cut back the dose, or pulse off of it for a time. Sometimes a big old miserable prolonged herx can be counter-productive.

    I've also read that the Lyme bacteria is very slow-growing, so that pulsing off, then back on, will not let the bacteria take over!

    Take care, wishing you well,
    Hopeful4
  3. karatelady52

    karatelady52 New Member

    Wow!!! You began herxing right away. I've had to use more pain meds also because herxing makes all the pain and stiffness that much worse.

    I've noticed anxiety to be a nasty side affect of all the herxing and the meds. I mentioned to my doctor the other day that I was crying and crying one night and she asked if I would like something for anxiety (I wasn't thinking along those lines.) Anyway, she gave me a script for Xanax and it has helped tremendously. You might want to keep that in mind.

    There are some tricks to handling the herxing. If it gets unbearable, I've lowered my dosage for a little while and then ramped back up (I see you did that at the beginning). Also, hot Epsom Salt baths help, drying brushing before shower/bathing is good, detox foot pads are wonderful! You can read about them on HealthMarvels dot net. They keep me from waking up with a headache in the morning.

    I've also heard of LLMD's having their patients pulse their Flagyl (3 weeks off, 1 week on) because Flagyl can be a rough one. Maybe it won't be for you.

    I think its funny that almost everyone who has had lyme has wondered if they really have it at one point or another. Just the fact that you're herxing tells you something, doesn't it?

    Have you been to the lyme board? They are so knowledgeable over there.

    Welcome aboard and hang tough.

    Sandy
  4. Dee50

    Dee50 New Member

    Happygranny,

    Hang it there. Sorry it's so hard. Lots of folks to help you here.

    I'll be joining you soon and be fighting Lyme too.

    Calling FFC on Monday.

    Hang on and God Bless you.
    Take care
    Dee50
  5. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    That pretty much describes Herxing to me. I am happy that your treatment is working so well and so quickly. The pathogen must have been in a very vulnerable phase for the treatment to take effect so quickly. That is definitely good news for you.

    The side effects are the bad news and I hope the Herxing doesn't get too bad. Keep us updated and good luck to you.

    Love, Mikie
  6. happygranny

    happygranny Member

    Thanks for the response, and I wish you all the best in your treatment. Pulsing is something I have read about at the Canlyme website as well as other's that I have researched at. I guess is is a matter of figuring it out as I go along.

    It is such a relief to know that the abx is doing something. All the FMS and CFS treatments were so uncertain.

    The option of going back on Guai eventually is still there. It seemed to do a lot for me and since I have gone off it my thighs are getting very sore and lumpy.....

    What a world we live in, those of us with these diseases!

    happygranny
  7. happygranny

    happygranny Member

    Hi and thanks for responding. I ahve not noticed any unusual anxiety, but it is good to know to look for it. I have visited a number of Lyme sites, especially the Canlyme site and they have been helpful, as has this Immune support site. We need all the info and support we can get as we wind our way through the maze.

    Going off the Flagyl after 3 weeks is a good idea, I will keep it in mind.

    How long have you been on the ABX protocol for Lyme and are you noticing a lot of improvement yet?

    happygranny
  8. happygranny

    happygranny Member

    Thanks for the words of encouragement and let me give them right back to you as you get ready to do the FFC.

    All the best,

    happygranny




















  9. happygranny

    happygranny Member

    Your words made me think that maybe because I had been on the salt/c protocol for a few weeks and herxed from that, maybe that is why the pathogens were more vulnerable.

    I stopped the salt/c about 2 weeks before starting the ABX protocol, but that might have been what caused me to herx so easily.

    Thanks for the info and support Mikie.

    happygranny
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Cell-wall-deficient bacteria are most vulnerable when they are in the bloodstream. This happens when they have killed off the host cells and are in search for new ones to attack. ABX can either kill bacteria outright or cause the body's cells to shut out the bacteria from entering. They literally starve to death in the bloodstream.

    If an ABX is taken just as many bacteria enter the bloodstream, it can cause Herxing almost immediately. Otherwise, it can take a while until the next generation of bacteria enter the bloodstream. Some treatments, like Heparin, will "stir up" the bacteria and make them vulnerable to killoff or dieoff.

    I do better when I use my zapper on a continuing basis. It will kill any pathogens in the bloodstream, including any viruses I've been exposed to. BTW, I Herxed in a big way on the third day after starting the Doxy. Actually, I felt the effects of the immune response on the third day and shortly after that, all hell broke loose as my body purged the dead and toxic bacteria.

    It takes time for these treatments to work, but when they work, we improve. My best to you. Please keep us updated.

    Love, Mikie
  11. hopeful4

    hopeful4 New Member

    Does anyone here know whether flucanazole (generic diflucan) can cause a lyme herx? I was on it for 3 months for candida before the lyme was identified. I thought I was "just" going through a bad candida herx. But now I'm wondering whether it could have been killing off lyme as well?

    Thanks so much. I continue to learn so much from everyone here, and feel so much support.

    Take care,
    Hopeful4
  12. happygranny

    happygranny Member

    The only information I can give you on that subject is that I was on flucozanole and Nystatin in Feb-Mar of 2003 for candidiasis and again in Feb-Mar 2003. Although I felt a medium herx the first week or so, I did not experience anything like what I am experiencing right now on Ketek and Flagyl.

    jeannie
  13. karatelady52

    karatelady52 New Member

    In answer to your question, I've been on abx for close to 4 months. As to feeling better, I am still herxing quite a bit as I'm going up on my Samento, Cumanda and abx.

    I had to start out really slow because of my lyme and virus load.

    Dr. B. said since I've been sick for 30+ years, it would take me a little longer to start feeling better.

    I'm patiently (and some days not so patiently) waiting. I do have days I feel better and other days herxing is pretty rough.

    It is a marathon with chronic lyme disease and knowing that is a huge part of the battle.

    Sandy
  14. tansy

    tansy New Member

    is the key to coping with borreliosis/lyme, other chronic infections, and the Tx for them.

    I am still on a non ABx protocol, had a hard time herxing and finally learned to accept the die off rate had become counterproductive. So for the time being I am aiming for slow and steady.

    I was told I had a high pathogen load, and because I had been ill for so many years no promises could be made about a cure. Instead I was told that given time things would improve. In my case other factors had to be taken into account. I mostly self treat, the doctor who is treating my infections is happy with what I am doing.

    I am making progress: I do not need to tell anyone, they can all see it for themselves.

    Happygranny

    Although I was sure I had a borrelia infection there was the usual nagging doubt in my mind even after it had been confirmed. I too herxed soon after taking a very low dose of samento, so I did not need any more convincing.

    love, Tansy