Madwolf /Jelly/others - Alternative test results in!

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I had another one and one half hour appt. with my holistic doctor today and got results of my saliva, blood, urine, hair and stool tests back.

    Madwolf, if you are reading this, I did not fare as well as you did. My TSH is almost as high as it was before treatment at 2.89, and my cholesterol is even worse than before at 269! My LDL has jumped to an awful 188. She says it will take more time, as I was only on thyroid med for 5 wks. before testing. Total T3 was 152 and T4 was 1.0.

    My Adrenal Stress Index was right down the midline of normal, and my DHEA-s was normal, but at the lowest end, so she wants me to take 2 mgs. of DHEA daily. I have several bottles of pregnenolone though, and since it is a precursor of DHEA, I am going back to that instead, at 10 mgs. twice per week. She would not give me Cortef, and is convinced, based on my other tests, that metal posioning is causing my rages, not adrenal fatigue. (My hubby and I both feel my rages, if not adrenal, are hormonal, since they started at menopause and I was a sweetie before the big "M").

    My hair analysis showed that my silver fillings and my regular fish consumption are no problem. My mercury and most other contaminants were very low. However, I have way too much arsenic and zirconium. The Zirconium is from deodorant, so most of us have that, but the arsenic is a mystery, and I will be doing 3 seperate 24 hr. urine tests, including one with a DSMA challenge to see what levels of metals come out.
    The hair test also showed I absorb nutrients and minerals really well, but my sodium and phosphorous are too high, like what you see in people who drink sodas all the time. Strange, since I don't touch that stuff! I am getting way too much calcium (Jelly, take note, you are correct!) and am slashing my supplements right now. They also told me I have the nutrient ratios of a very slow metaboliser and should not eat dairy for that reason, as it slows it further. Boo Hoo...dairy is my favorite.
    She also feels my high blood pressure may be due to metals, even though every adult on both sides of my family has high BP. She told me to hold off on olive leaf until we can get my level of BP meds down, since the med I take is one of the strongest.

    An immune modulator test done on stool showed I am not allergic to any foods, just as I told her. I'm glad I refused the very expensive blood tests for food allergy.

    She feels I need chelation, and is also checking out my fibrinogen levels and my C-Reactive protein to see if I have arteriosclerosis. If CRP is positive, she will send me for an ultrafast CT scan of the heart and do a test for nanobacter, which she feels is a major cause of calcium deposition in arteries.

    My stool showed I absorb all but fats well, and should keep taking enzymes for the fats. The surprise was I am loaded with bad bacteria and yeast, in spite of all the probiotics I take. She put me on one week of Cipro and at least 2 months of Nystatin and told me to eat free range meats...too bad I can't afford to do that! She says there is way too much bacteria in regular meat now.

    Now for the big shock!!! I asked her what her basic belief about fibro is, and she said she absolutely does not believe there is anything genetic about fibro! She says it is either hormonal or metal posioning or both, combined with an emotional component where the person wants to hold on to pain for some reason. She suggested a hands-on healer for working on the emotional part. Needless to say, I was not pleased! I will be seeing another holistic doctor next week to see if his philosophy is a bit closer to my own.

    BTW, I have now gained 6 lbs. due to the raging hunger the progesterone drops are causing, but I feel so much better, I intend to keep on taking them. I am now at 45 mgs. of Armour you have many patients who find that is enough?

    She also said she is not impressed with blood pressure that falls when you stand up as a test of the adrenals. She says it is a vagal nerve problem which befalls everyone as they get older to some degree, and is greatly influenced by medications, esp. the tranqs and the blood pressure meds (I take both). She feels the ASI is the holy grail for adrenals.

    In spite of some of her opinions, she is really very caring and is actually doing some of the tests I need, so I find myself forgiving her ignorance and liking her. However, that won't prevent my getting another opinion.

    Sorry this is so long! Hope I didn't bore you. Thanks for reading it.

    Hugs, Klutzo

  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    and any others interested in alternative testing.
  3. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    What I'll do now is to keep taking the Armour thyroid and the progesterone and do the urine tests for heavy metals and blood tests for CRP and fibrinogen.
    Next week I'll see the one other holistic doctor in my area who takes Medicare. I pray his attitude will be more up to date. His nurse told me he has recently set up a "neurotransmitter program" especially for Fibro patients, so I already know his approach will be different than hers, but it may not be any better.
    Yes, I did tell her that I was in the Psychiatric field, and that I had taken all the tests more than once and been ruthless in investigating my psyche for possible sources of secondary gain from pain,without result. I did acknowledge that I have never felt safe in the world, as a result of growing up with two alcholic parents, and that I feel that could be a predisposing factor, but I do not believe psychology to be the main or even one of the main causes. She took it well, and has no problem with differences of opinion, unlike so many other docs.
    I wish I could believe it was psychological. What a relief it would be to go and dump a load on some Psychologist twice weekly and actually get better!
    Well, off to bed. I'm beat.
  4. fibrorebel

    fibrorebel New Member

    Lady, you never bore me! I for one of many so appreciate your sharing such great info, as you always do. Have been wondering if you got your results back and I just missed them or something. I, too, seem to be in the midst of adrenal chaos of late, seeing new doc on th 22nd. If you get a chance would you check out my post on dizziness and give me your opinion? I do value your opinion. Thanks!
  5. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    Glad to see your having a DSMA challenge.....I'll be anxious to see the results..esp the arsenic. If the metals were determined by hair analysis....that only reveals recent exposure. An inch and a half of hair closest o your scalp, is your last 3 month history of exposure.

    DSMA challenge gives you a better idea of how much has accumulated...... any idea where you might have had exposure to arsenic.?

    interesting results...but like you ......I don't like her belief system reguarding this. Yes I believe in a mind body connection.....but I think a body imbalance has more affect on the mind, than an imbalanced mind affects the body. (did that make sense?)........DJ

  6. kerrymygirl

    kerrymygirl New Member

    Did you say you were nice before?????? Hey, just kidding don`t get mad at me. Yes, I did notice the change the last few mo that I had seen you. Also in your voice. I am afraid to call/lol. Will get back with you on all this. And some of your replys from previous sit. I spoke of.

    How about a few more fireworks....? I did get quite a show
    from here. Saw all the cities surrounding me.

    Write you later been up most of night am going to try and rest if I can. 6 days of phone men are driving me nuts.
    Never know, I start messages or calls get cut off.
    OK, thats right we already all are......nuts?

    Love, just me

    PS>Dojomo, you were posting same time as I was, I agree it makes sense, I have always believed that. Hello>>Docs<
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 07/09/2003</i>]
  7. Misdiagnosed

    Misdiagnosed New Member

    Hi Klutzo

    Very interesting re your tests. But what is ASI for adrenals?

  8. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I put up two more posts this morning with interesting info from my hair analysis that applies to us all...about irritable bladder, muscle cramps in general, and panic.

    Fibrorebel - after this, I will go check out your post on dizziness.

    Kerry- we got a break. It rained here and the little bas*ards couldn't set off their fireworks all night.

    DJ - I think maybe my husband is slowly posioning me with arsenic! (I read too many murder mysteries). Doc said most likely sources are pesticides sprayed on citrus trees (everyone in my neighborhood has them), and/or coastal seafood (which I eat a lot of here on the coast of Florida).

    Gill- Do a search for "Adrenal" in the previous posts and you will get more info than you want on the ASI test, which uses your saliva taken at four exact times of day to determine your available cortisol levels and compare them to normal patterns. You do the test at home from a kit, and mail it to the lab.

    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 07/09/2003</i>]
  9. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    For Madwolf
  10. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

  12. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    What did you do about the arsenic? Did your son have chelation? Did you change to eating only free-range chicken?
  13. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Saw another holistic doc today. He ordered a urine neurotransmitter test to see what all my levels of serotonin, dopamine, epinephrine, etc. are, and he treats with amino acids. He also told me my Probiotic is inadequate (from looking at my stool test results) and I need to try another brand.
    He also does not believe in Fibro, but sees it as a collection of symptoms due to a wide range of other underlying problems, which may be hormonal, metal posioning, or just inherited neurotransmitter problems.
    I don't care what he thinks, as long as he treats me, and he is willing, unlike the first holistic doc I saw, to give me the allopathic meds I need to function.
    He is the first doctor I've ever seen who told me it is impossible to stop eating sugar if your serotonin is too low, and that I shouldn't blame myself for my weight problem. He also told me I have very large bones and can't expect to be "thin", but we will work together to get me down to a safe weight.
    I think I can deal with him, since ironically, his disbelief will make him work harder to fix all the individual problems we have, instead of saying: "It's just your fibro , and you'll have to live with it".
    Welcome back!
  14. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    Having your thyroid out of whack will raise your cholesterol. Hopefully when the thyroid hormone starts to help more, that should go down.

    Marilyn :)
  15. tansy

    tansy New Member

    doesn't accept CFs as one illness. She does believe I'm as ill as I say and can see my disability but feels that those with this diagnosis have a range of different problems.

    I chose just to accept that. Although not strictly holistic she likes natural alternatives and encourages her patients to look into safer treatments than she can prescribe on the NHS.

    I believe you hit the nail on the head when you said that not accepting FM will make him try harder. Here in the UK most doctors who accept CFS won't look into anything,you're just supposed to learn to live with it all.

    They should try it sometime!

    This all sounds so promising Klutzo.



    ps it took me years to reaslise my probiotics were inadequate, couldn't understand why they were not doing their job.
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 07/14/2003</i>]
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 07/14/2003</i>]
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 07/14/2003</i>]
  16. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Marilyn - thanks for the encouragement. I hope you will turn out to be right in my case. Madwolf sure had a drastic reduction in cholesterol when he started thyroid. The reason I fear it may not help me, is that my cholesterol was not high until menopause, when it suddenly shot up almost 70 pts.! High protein/low carb eating has taken my triglycerides way down, but I have watched my LDL climb steadily into very dangerous territory since eating this way. BTW, my new doc thinks the cholesterol numbers mean nothing. He says the size of the LDL particles is the all-important thing, but he did not order the test for this yet.

    Tansy - so what Probiotic do you use? He recommended the Metagenics one that comes with ice wrapped all around it and must be refrigerated. I used that once for two months, and boy, was it ever pricey! I need something I can afford,and I don't want to worry about the ice melting in the Florida heat while it's on it's way to my house. I am now using Nutraceutical Sciences Institute probiotics, because I love their multi-vitamin, called Synergy. Any suggestions welcomed.

  17. tansy

    tansy New Member

    I did use one that was supposed to be good by Bio Care (UK), this had acidophilus and bifido. Now I use their replete 1 week to start, then 2 doses a week because it's very expensive; also larger doses of their bifidus (which always had a good effect) and one that has a wide range of organisms. Started flora balance in powder form to see if would help my upper tract but there's no difference so far and no die off symtoms which was disappointing.

    Somewhere along the line, and when I can afford it, I may try natures biotics. I use FOS as well. My lower GI tract isn't completely right but it's better than it's been for over 20 years and I'm convinced the candida's back under control now.

    Both my son and I have found colustrum useful too, I can only tolerate 2 caps (dairy/beef sensitive) but he's taking 4 a day and swears by them. He also uses probiotics and we both take high allicin yield garlic.

    Love to hear how you get on with these new probiotics. Summer's not a good time for transporting heat sensitive supps. i too though the metagenics ones were too expensive, ok if you're only using them briefly but quite another matter if needed long term.

    I'm going to try cytolog to see if that helps upper tract, and once I get my 24 hour saliva test results back contact a doctor I used to see. I've made progress in some areas and getting into more of a mess with others so need some help that I can afford.

    Hope the new probiotics do their job.



    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 07/14/2003</i>]
  18. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Thanks Tansy for the good info on Probiotics!

    Madwolf - please see my other two posts on results of my hair analysis. I will find them and bump them up for you. The interpretation section of my results explained that the excessive thirst and frequent urination is the result of an imbalance of low magnesium related to sodium or calcium, I can't remember which. My MG levels were normal, but the NA amd CA were too high, and I decided to give my calcium supps. a rest for at least a month, despite my osteopenia.

    I am not sure about chelation either, except that it costs too much. One reason I was glad to change docs.

  19. tansy

    tansy New Member

    one user mentions i flora, 16 strains best she'd used.

    There's been discussions on three lac too. Some time ago Dale mentioned natures biotics which are soil based enzymes, but they would get expensive once you're on the highest dose.

    It's a minefield out there!


  20. endoangel

    endoangel New Member

    I have been on a form of Chelation treatment because I cannot sustain bodily function w/o it. I have been malnoursihed because of a tetanus reaction and a chemical overload. I used a probiotic but it had FOS and this caused an overgrowth of klebsiella in my body. I found an environmental doc who suggested saunas and IV's to get rid of the stuff. I had to change all my products out, shampoo, conditioner, soap, etc. I had massive panic attacks during this time since I was so full of rage and then they diagnosed me with hormone allergies. I too used to be a sweetie until all of this started. Now I cannot work, have to have treatments daily to live, and so tired from doing nothing, pain all the time, etc. I have tried prolotherapy for pain and I too have a psych background and addiction science background and some docs are just way behind the times in reference to this. Yes all of this is expensive but I would not be alive had it not been for any of these treatments. I laid in my bed dying this past May after being in the hospital and calling all around the world for help and none was forthcoming until this doc in Dallas. I met so many people there who were suffering from various things but we all had fatigue and pain all over our bodies. How can all of these people be making it up and just wanting to hold on to our pain. We have better things to do with our time. Send that you-know-what this posting and I will give her a piece of my mind with my background attached to it.