Madwolf - need your input

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, May 4, 2003.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    When you get a chance, will you check out Dr. Bruce Rind's website, found by drrind and the usual ending, and tell me what you think about his explanation of why you should never treat a functionally low thyroid if the adrenals are also low functioning, but must treat adrenals first? I'd like to know your opinion of his reasoning on this.
    BTW, on the Metabolic Table on his site where you can rate yourself, my adrenal insufficiency score was double the other two scores for thyroid and mixed problems.
    You can read my post on Metabolism for more info and how I ended up at this site.
    Thanks for your wise advise,
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 05/04/2003]
  2. AmyKaiser

    AmyKaiser New Member

    thats a good question..
    i always read what i think is the opposite..but from a person with a thyroid issue more than adrenal..
    the fact was that if u have a thyroid problem chances are u have sluggish adrenals as well..and if u dont treat the adrenals as well as the thyroid u will continue to feel lousy etc..

    Amy
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I hope you and your lovely bride are doing well. Haven't heard from you in a bit.

    Love, Mikie
  4. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    but i have read for years that the adrenals should be treated first,...only i couldn't get it done this way here in the UK........i am only just starting to get my adrenals treated at all........what effects are to be expected if the treatment has been for the thyroid first ???

    glad you have brought this up.

    pinkquartz
  5. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    ...if you treat the thyroid first, the treatment forces the failing adrenals to push even harder, so the improvement from the thyroid treatment will be short-lived, since the adrenals will become even more exhausted and those symptoms will worsen.
    Klutzo
  6. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    The Locolobo must be out partying with his lovely bride tonight!
    Klutzo
  7. MemoryLane

    MemoryLane Member

    I was recently reading at the Armour Thyroid website and one of their stated contraindications was regarding untreated adrenal insufficiency. They stressed in more than one place, not to start thyroid replacement therapy, if the adrenal problems were not stable.

    Just thought I would mention this.

    Lane
  8. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Thanks for checking it out. The symptoms in Dr. Poesneckers article on How We get CFS and in Dr. Rind's Metabolic table match mine exactly, including some very strange ones that are almost never mentioned in CFS/FMS literature, like rapid bowel transit time and increased intuitiive ability. To understand why I am so excited about this, you need to visit Dr. Poesnecker's site also, at chronicfatigue and a dot org, and click on Archives, then click "Nature of the Chronic Fatigue Patient". Lots of other good stuff there also.
    However, when it comes to testing for this problem, conventional and alt. medicine could not be further apart.
    As my Endocrinologist explained it to me, conventional docs believe you either have healthy adrenals or you have Addison's disease, with no progression in-between. When you check the websites, you will see references to a study showing that CFS patients have adrenal glands that have atrophied about 50% below normal. As I understand it, Addison's does not show any symptoms at all until there is 90% atrophy.
    Alt. docs like Dr. Poesnecker and Dr. Rinds use saliva testing, at 4 specific times daily for cortisol.
    I have had both conventonal and alt. tests done, and as you could predict from the above, the results contradict each other.
    My 8 am fasting serum cortisol was 18. My saliva tests showed an 8 am level of only 8, and the other 3 saliva tests were all equally below the norms.
    My Endocrinologist says only blood is reliable, and that saliva varies wildly in it's cortisol content, but my Naturopath says only saliva is reliable when trying to discern less than total adrenal collapse. BTW, my serum DHEA tested as above normal for my age, but my saliva DHEA was way below normal.
    So, I have to go by my symptoms, which match stage 3-4 adrenal exhaustion exactly. As you have said many times, treat the symptoms, not the numbers! I seriously doubt I can convince my doctor to prescribe hydrocortisone though! Got any tips for convincing her? Both Dr. Rind and Dr. Poesnecker prefer glandular extracts instead of drugs, but I am afraid of contamination from parasites in glandular products.
    Looking forward to your educated opinion,
    Klutzo
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  9. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I put the Cortef on my list for my next doctor's visit.
    When you say no side-effects, I hope you mean no weight gain, no insomnia, no rise in blood pressure, and no bone loss, because I already have problems with all four of those....and,
    I am confused, as I thought people who carried all their excess weight in their stomachs like I do, were putting out excess cortisol, not too little.
    Comments?
    I'd also love to know what you thought of Dr. Poesnecker's theories and Dr. Rind's Metabolic Table showing the progression of this illness through it's 6 stages. It's the only thing I've seen that explains satisfactorily how CFS and FMS could be the same illness, just in different stages.
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 05/05/2003]