Methylation supplements

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by MicheleK, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. MicheleK

    MicheleK Member

    I have been on the Methylation Protocol for two months. I am noticing improved energy using the supplements provided by ProHealth.

    My doctor however prescribed Metanix (sp)for me. I called and it cost $144 for a 3 month supply. ProHealth's supplement was so much less expensive I went with that. Has anyone used both what is offered on ProHealth and also Metanix (sp)? If so have you noticed any difference between the results using either?

    If Rich sees this post could you tell me if one is superior over the other? Thanks! MicheleK
  2. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I looked up Metanx and think it is very expensive. You can get the same things much cheaper. I don't use the PH methylation supplements, but do use Solgar brand l-methylfolate (same as in Metanx), Swanson p-5-p and Jarrow methylcobalamin for 1/3 of the cost or less.

    Although it is good to see a doctor getting serious about nutrition, I don't think you need an expensive prescription to get these nutrients. Just read the label - you can get the exact same things a lot cheaper.

  3. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    Metanix is a prescription medicine and so made by a pharmaceutical company. Medical practitioners tend to be glued to pharma because it is the drug reps who educate them, aside from conferences mounted by Pharma.

    Metanix is : L-methylfolate, Methylcobalamin and Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate. (Three B vitamins: folate, B12 and B6). So what you buy from ProHealth is the same but having them separately you can vary the dose of each

    This reminds me of when vitamin D2 was produced in the US and, because it was produced by a pharma it was the accepted form of vitamin D even though it is far less effective under most circumstances than vitamin D3. Since vitamin D3 is the bodies natural form it can not be patented or restricted. Mind you the pharmaceutical companies are all out to restrict these nutrients so they can bring in their own analogues. Just you watch!
  4. joanierav

    joanierav Member

    is L methylfolate the same as solgars metafolin? vitamin b's are so confusing. i take coenzyme b-complex 50 mil. they have all the b's. i take 2 a day. prolly could take more. anyways isnt that the same as the methylocobalamin and p5p? isnt that included in my bottle of b's?

    i do take 400 mil of metafolin solgar, in addition to the above b complex.

    thank you very much for any insight on this.

  5. MicheleK

    MicheleK Member

    Thanks for the responses. Actually my doctor is a holistic doctor and she wrote the script for the Metanix(sp). Perhaps she doesn't know about ProHealth's supplying supplements for those of us who need them on the Methylation Protocol. I guess I will ask her and let her know there are less expensive resources for her patients. Thanks!
  6. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I do believe it is but check with the Solgar site. You are probably getting 800mcg to 1000 mcg folate in the form of methylfolate plus whatever you get from your diet, such as cereals, bread, eggs green veges etc. You could be getting around 1200mcg per day. Check out your foods as well.The cereal/bread added is folic acid though, a bit different from folate but hey it is debatable whether there is really much of a difference. RichVanK has some opinions and evidence on this.

    You will also be getting the cobalamin from your multi but it could be cyanocobalamin. check out the label. The B6 is probably 100mg per pill so you could be getting 200mg, again check out the label.
    [This Message was Edited on 07/15/2012]
  7. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, joanie and Ian.

    Yes, the Solgar Metafolin is 5L-methyl tetrahydofolate.

    Yes, I do have some thoughts on folic acid. It's a synthetic, oxidized form of folate that is not found in natural foods, only those that are fortified with it, in the U.S. and some other countries.

    For treating ME/CFS, I don't believe that folic acid is the best form of folate, for several reasons. In order for the cells to use it, it must be converted to tetrahydrodfolate. This requires two reactions catalyzed by the DHFR enzyme, and it also requires two molecules of NADPH. Some people, for genetic reasons, have very slow DHFR enzymes, so that folic acid is not very usable, and builds up in their blood. There is some evidence that it suppresses the activity of the natural killer cells and that it increases the risk for cancer, but this has not reached scientific consensus.

    Many PWMEs are found to be low in NADPH, and this is needed for other important reactions, so using it to convert folic acid to THF may exacerbate this problem.

    Even if folic acid can be converted to THF, in order to help the methylation cycle, it must still be converted to methylfolate, and this requires two more reactions, one of which is usually the SHMT, and the other is the MTHFR reaction. Many people have polymorphisms in the MTHFR enzyme, which slow the production of methylfolate.

    Finally, folic acid competes with the active folates for absorption by the gut and for transport into the cells.

    In addition to these reasons, there appear to be some people (including Freddd on the PR forums) who have a more serious intolerance for folic acid.

    For all these reasons, I think it is best to use methylfolate and folinic acid as the folate forms for treating ME/CFS.

    All that being said, I will note that Dr. Vinitsky's protocol uses very high dosages of folic acid, together with hydroxocobalamin, taken sublingually, and he apparently has some success, I think primarily in autism.

    With regard to B12, I don't recommend using cyanocobalamin, because the dosages needed in ME/CFS are rather high (milligrams levels), and I have encountered one case in which the person developed cyanide poisoning, because all four of his mechanisms for detoxing cyanide were exhausted. This is probably unusual, but I don't see a reason to take the chance when other forms of B12 are available. In the simplified protocol I have suggested trying hydroxo B12 first, and if that does not produce results, then I have suggested switching to methyl B12. People differ in their tolerance and need for these two forms.

    To get enough B12 into the blood to overcome the functional B12 deficiency that is caused by glutathione depletion in ME/CFS, I believe it is usually necessary to take it sublingually or by injection, rather than simply swallowing it orally. The amount absorbed from oral supplements is adequate for a normal, healthy person, but not for one who has a functional B12 deficiency.

    Best regards,


  8. Hi Rich, I'm fairly new to this site and would like to find out more about the protocols that have been helping so many here. But I have a couple of questions too.... How much of the Methylfolate do you recommend (esp. for someone like me who has 2 mutations of the Mthfr gene (both the A1298C and the C677T)?

    Also, I've been taking both, a sublingual B-12 (in the form of methylcobalamin--- 3000 mcg twice a day) as well as an injection (every other day) of 1000 mcg of the cyanocobalamin that my doctor prescribed. I didn't think the 1000 mcg injection was enough, so that is why I am supplementing with the sublingual. What is the recommended dosage of B12 per day for ME/CFS sufferers? And since you mentioned that you don't recommend the cyanocobalamin, should I look into the other form of injectable B12 (which form would that be?)? And if so, what dosage is the most helpful?? I would think that the injections would be more helpful than the sublinguals, am I right? Thanks so much for any insight you can give.
  9. joanierav

    joanierav Member

    i have another question, talking about sublinqual b12 and injections, being better than oral hydrox. i thought you recommended hydroxy b12 mega drops, in your protocol? isnt that considered oral?

    also is methylmate b, 3 drops the same as 5L methyltetrahydrofolate?

    thank you so much.

  10. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, joanierav.

    MethylMate B does contain 5L methytetrahydrofolate.

    It is a liquid, but I suggested putting the drops under the tongue. Some people have reported that it isn't as well absorbed as the Perque B12 Guard lozenge in the earlier version of the protocol, so I'm considering switching back to that. I was hoping that the liquid drops would be more convenient, but they may be less effective.

    Best regards,

  11. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    My daughter was taking those drops, under her tongue, when I bought the lozenges I got some for her too and she switched. when she did she experienced another increment of energy and better control of her chemical exposures. So I am assuming she is doing better on the lozenge.
  12. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi Rich,

    I'm going to write this here in the hope that you will see it.

    I finally figured out why I could only tolerate tiny, tiny amounts of B-12 and folate. It was because I was very low in Vitamin D. Since I have been supplementing D3, I can tolerate more B-12 and folate, and I seem to seriously need more of both of them.

    I still find that it is really easy to nibble a piece off a Perque B-12 pill and a Solgar Metafolin pill every day.

    Best wishes!
  13. joanierav

    joanierav Member

    thanks so much for your reply, love getting educated by you.

    i dont know if you remember me, but i first asked you about this protocol last year. i asked you which one i could start with as i was very sick and didnt want to suffer from any side effects. i wanted to start very slowly.

    you recommended the neuro health formula multi . i happy to report that i am doing very well on them. i even got brave and started with a whole one from the get go. now i take two a day.

    my question to you is. now i am ready for my second one. which one would you now recommend i progress to. the folinic acid, the perque , the methylmate , or the phosphatidyl serine complex?

    also i took the seriphos that my doc recommended yrs ago, and did not tolerate it well. isnt that the same as the phosphatidyl serine? or should i give the phos serine a try?

    many thanks,
  14. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, joanierav.

    I'm glad to hear that you are doing O.K. on the neuro health formula.

    I would suggest adding the Perque B12 Guard next.

    Since Seriphos did not agree with you, I would recommend that you not take phosphatidylserine complex, but instead take lecithin. If you are sensitive to soy, you can get lecithin that is made from sunflowers or other sources.

    I would suggest first adding the Perque, then later on the folates, then finally the lecithin.

    Best regards,

  15. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, Forebearance.

    Thanks for the information. I'm going to have to try to figure out the connection with vitamin D. Vitamin D has really been popping up in a lot of places lately.
    I'm glad that you figured out that you needed vitamin D.

    Thanks again.

  16. joanierav

    joanierav Member

    rich for the quick reply. really i am grateful for any reply from you.

    this site would not be the same without you. you are the best source of info that any of us has here, i am sure.

    god bless you always with good health.

  17. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hey joanierav,

    I can't tolerate phos. serine either, but I do very well on egg yolk lecithin.

  18. joanierav

    joanierav Member

    for that . very sweet of you to respond. what is lecithin for anyway? ive heard of it, but dont know much about it.

    hugs, joanie

  19. joanierav

    joanierav Member

    for that . very sweet of you to respond. what is lecithin for anyway? ive heard of it, but dont know much about it.

    hugs, joanie

  20. MicheleK

    MicheleK Member

    Thank you Rich and everyone else here for their answers, comments, and questions. I will continue to use the methylation protocol offered here on ProHealth then.

    It sometimes seems such a small amount of everything that I wonder if that is really all I need. I can never get the tabelts into quarters, so I take a half of each one.

    I am going out socially for the third weekend in a row. I haven't been able to do that in a good long time. It's like a feast after a long famine.

    I appreciate the information and ProHealth for supplying the product for us.