Mickel Reverse Therapy is working for me

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by advancewithcourage, Jul 30, 2005.

  1. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    I am currently doing MRT with Dr. Mickel in London. I live in the US so I have spread my sessions over a long period of time. When I started MRT, I had made a lot of progress and my major fatigue was gone. But, I still had daily headaches, brain fog and food intolerances. I have had the equivenlant of 5 session in the last 6 or so months and I believe I am almost totally cured.

    Many of you on this forum know of me and have known all I have done to get well. I can tell you with all my heart that CFS/FMS are diseases of the hypothalamus. My research was pointing in that direction even before I started MRT.

    The doctor is not a money grubbing physician trying to make money off of humans suffering. He is a truly compassionate individual who really wants to help poeple.

    MRT has been a major positive experience for me and my life has really changed for the better as a result. I highly recommend it.

    I admit, I was tempted to give up in discouragement at points, but I think if you stick with it, it really will help.
  2. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    Dr. Mickel has not trained anyone in the US yet, but plans to do so.

    The reason why infections can be a result of hypothalamitis is because when the HPA axis is disregulated, the immune system does not function well. I had chronic active HHV-6.
  3. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    how come you have seen him in london? i thought was based in scotland?

    excellent news. very pleased for you.
  4. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    Actually, I have been doing MRT by e-mail. I hesistated to mention it lest he be flooded with requests for more MRT by e-mail. He took me on as a patient sort of as an experiment - to see if it would work. I don't know why I thought he was in London. All I knew he was somewhere in the UK and I cannot fly there - $$$$. So I do my notebook and then send it off in cyberspace and then get my responses. Takes alot more time then going to the office, but there are not therapists in US now.

    Even if I did not get 100% symptom free I am grateful for the resulting changes I have made in my life. The quality of my life is much better. But, I really do feel that I will eventually get 100% free of CFIDS and I believe Dr. Mickel is on the right track. Although I have never seen his face, I have come to regard him as a friend. I think he can help others.
  5. LBV

    LBV New Member

    but what is mrt?

  6. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    thanks for the reply. it does give hope.
  7. AFair

    AFair New Member

    Thats great news. My bf is 90% improved with MRT I to strongly recommend it. If you dont already know me and want to know more please read my posts xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    I think the name of the therapy has now changed to Mickel Therapy, i assume to avoid confusion with the Eaton version of Reverse Therapy xxx
  8. matthewson

    matthewson New Member

    this therapy. I found his explaination quite fascinating and relavent to what I feel is the problem in FMS/CFS.

    Reverse therapy
    & the hypothalamus

    The hypothalamus gland is the true master gland of the body. It controls all the glands regulating everything from body temperature and adrenalin production, to feelings of thirst & hunger (either directly or indirectly).

    Reverse Therapy states that your symptoms are communications from your body. It is based on the principle that when your symptoms are interpreted, translated & responded to positively, they will go away...

    .... & so the illness will go too.

    Reverse Therapists are trained to do these interpretations & translations. This is NOT a type of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

    ME/CFS/FM occurs when the hypothalamus gland goes into overdrive & doesn’t take its foot off the pedal. This does explain some of the symptoms of the illness, which they prefer to call Hypothalamitis.

    When ‘infected’ the hypothalamus thinks the body is under attack, so it will tell the body to produce chemicals to prepare muscles to run away or fight. This creates a chemically induced state of exertion, even when you’re asleep ~ hence the twisted sheets when you wake up, the feeling of tiredness etc.

    Now the hypothalamus should read the feedback from the body, that all is well & that it can stop producing these chemicals. But the hypothalamus isn't working properly so...

    ... it doesn’t respond to the signals & continues to produce more chemicals! This in turn makes the muscles work even more, producing lactic acid as a by-product, making your muscles sore & you feel very tired!!!

    But you can’t sleep because your body is pumped up with adrenalin because it's 'defending itself'. And then when you do sleep, the muscles are still working chemically!

    It’s a vicious cycle.

    Another symptom of the illness is increased mucus production in the sinuses & ears (which changes hearing sensitivity & can cause pain &/or tinitis), increased lymphatic fluid in the glands & mucus in the throat. This is due to the hypothalamus thinking that the body is about to be attacked by viruses (yes the hypothalamus is preparing for attack from both physical & virus forms!)

    The hypothalamus tells other glands to prepare to defend the body against a viral attack & they produce the mucous/lymphatic liquid. Since the hypothalamus never stops this message, the immune system keeps on preparing for this attack.

    With some people, their whole immune system crashes from overwork & they get loads of colds etc. But for other FM/CFS/ME sufferers, their immune system crashes and then bounces back & they become relatively cold-free ~ everyone is different.

    Anyway that’s some of the reasoning behind why the hypothalamus is responsible for FM/CFS/ME .

    Very interesting read! Definately something to look into.

    Take care, Sally
  9. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    This sums it up quite well. I know this can be difficult to believe for some. I was skeptical at 1st, but keeping my symptom notebook has taught me the truth.
  10. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    Basically your Mickel Therapist would be helping you to determine what lies behind your symptoms. IT IS NOT PSYCOTHERAPY OR COGNITIVE THERAPY.

    What lies behind your symptoms? You work with the therapist using a symptom diary. YOu determine what is triggering your symptoms (causing a hypothalamic response - fight or flight) and learn to counteract this process by taking action in your life to do so.

    This process would be different for everyone.

    Suffice it to say, it did not take me long using my symptom diary to see that my symptoms really were related to issues in my life. I began to slowly see a pattern of symptoms. I noticed certain symptoms at certain times in correlation with certain emotions. My body was going into fight or flight, sending me a message to take action. I was ignoring that message, because I did not recognize it as a message.

    For example, Dr. Mickel used this analogy with me that really helped. YOu sit on a tack. You say, "ouch this tack is really hurting me" - the body is sending you a message through your pain - GET OFF THE TACK - but you continue sitting on the tack. Mickel Therapy is helping me to identify the tacks I am sitting on (that are causing this fight or flight reaction in the hypothalamus) and eliminate them. One by one. IT is alot of work and it does take time, but it has been very worth it.

  11. AFair

    AFair New Member

    Bumping to give everyone a chance to read
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Thanks for posting; I'm glad this is helping you.

    I can remember being in the F or F mode even as a small child, especially as a small child.

    Keep us updated and if anyone else is using this treatment, please post about how it is helping.

    Love, Mikie
  13. KelB

    KelB New Member

    "What lies behind your symptoms? You work with the therapist using a symptom diary. YOu determine what is triggering your symptoms (causing a hypothalamic response - fight or flight) and learn to counteract this process by taking action in your life to do so. "

    This exactly describes what my CBT course had me do. It worked for me as well, but as a coping mechanism and not a cure.

    I'm so glad that you've found something positive that helps. I would encourage CFS people to try this sort of approach in any form - it won't work for everyone but it has to be worth a try if you can find a reliable therapist.
  14. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    Mickel Therapy really bears no resemblance to CBT, but that is difficult to explain here. It also has no resemblance to psychotherapy.

    The goal is to learn to see your symptoms as messages from your body (not as annoying enemies). When responded to properly, the body will not longer need to send the symptoms and the body can return to health.

    I think MT will work for anyone willing to stick it out and make the changes to their life that are necessary. It isn't easy though. Reminds me of a proverb I once heard quoted.

    "Until the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change, most people will remain the same."

    That is what our symptoms are telling us in CFS/FMS - something needs to change because I (your body) cannot function properly as things are.

    So many are unwilling to consider the hypothalamus as the root of CFS because we want validity for our illness (scientifically) and want to remove the stigma of having an "invisible illness". So we search in vain for some "stealth pathogen" that continues to allude us. And will always elude us.

    Certianly we can find mycoplamas, viruses and fungus. I had active HHV-6 infection. But the real question is-if these infections are the root cause of CFS/FMS then why are these pathogens remaining dormant in the rest of the population and only reactivating in those of us suffering with CFS/FMS. THe reason is because they are just another symptom - not a cause. They are reactivated because the immune system cannot function properly with a lack of homeostasis.

    Basically in CFS/FMS you have an endocrine imbalance rooted in the hypothalamus. This causes a system wide cascade of horrible symptoms. Check out any good medical text on the role of the hypothalamus in the body. It is like reading a description of our illness.

    The hypothalamus is the master gland of the body. It is designed to send messages to the body and maintain homeostasis. In CFS, it is sending messages that we need to heed. This is where MT comes in.... it teaches you how to understand these messages.


    [This Message was Edited on 08/03/2005]
  15. davebhoy

    davebhoy New Member

    i am interested to find out how systemic candida and post-exertion malaise fit into this whole theory.

    does anyone have any ideas on these in dr mickel's theory and treatment?
  16. barty

    barty New Member

    pleased that RT has worked for you awc but I think a degree of caution is needed when claiming RT will work for eveyone who is 'prepared to stick it out.'

    RT didn't work for me, and the therapist told me that this was my fault because I was not in touch with my body. I was told I wasn't trying hard enough with my 'messages'.

    After spending ALOT of money I had made no progress and in RT's eyes, I was to blame for this.

    Therefore, 'sticking it out' can be both highly expensive and also lead to a sense of guilt for your lack of progress.

    RT and MRT are completely unregulated and not affiliated to any professional associations.

    I have also had CBT (on the NHS) and RT. There are distinct similarities between these two approaches once you remove the 'spin.' Apart from reading out the messages on the cards to yourself each day (RT) and the theory of 'hypothalamitis' (RT) they are almost identical.

    It has been argued that RT helps people deal with stress and consequently relieves some syomtoms for people with CFS but by no means cures it. It has also been argued that RT is helpful for people who do not have CFS/ME but are actually suffering from a social phobia.

    If someone told me my ME was a social phobia I would be offended. Just as I was offended when my reverse therapist tole me I wasn't in touch my with my body so its my fault that I'm not betting better
  17. hahaha

    hahaha New Member

    Candida is a result of the compromised immune system and post-exertional malaise due to the adrenal burnout which is a consequence of the over active hypothalamus overworking the adrenal glands. It's all explained in detail on the RT site.

    Barty it's interesting to hear the argument that RT cures social phobia not CFS, and acting as devil's advocate, I seem to remember you stating that your CFS was triggered by the pressure of having to make an important presentation at a teaching seminar? Could this not be seen as a form of social phobia?
  18. angeldust

    angeldust New Member

    RT and CBT both aim to make you change the way you think and behave for the good of your health - they are very similar. I like to think of RT as being CBT in a "Gucci" or "designer" wrapper. Either are worth giving a try, but read the books and research thoroughly as they dont work for everyone.

    advancewithcourage please continue to update us on your progress, the opportunity to have this therapy by email will help alot of people who are housebound within the UK.

    RT is spreading its wings and I believe coming to USA and other countries later this year. See reverse therapy uk website.
  19. barty

    barty New Member

    Perhaps I do have a social phobia of seminars.

    So thanks to reverse therapy and your insightful observation, not only have I interpreted my message incorrectly and have failed to understand my body, but I have also not acted on my messages appropriately and I have a social phobia.

    Quite brilliant. Thanks.

    Worth every penny of the £640.00 I spent on RT.

    ps I delivered a 2 hour lecture to 250 postgraduates from Oxford, Cambridge and Canterbury universities last week. I feel great, largely due to the work of Dr Andrew Wright. Maybe I should spend another £640.00 on RT in case my social phobia comes back. What do you think?
  20. advancewithcourage

    advancewithcourage New Member

    I also had a terrible case of Candida.

    This is what I believe based on my research.... Candida results when an imbalance of endocrine hormones (cortisol I think) causes a vasocontriction of the blood vessels supplying the intestines. This results in an anaearobic environment in which bad critters (like Candida ect) thrive. The naturally occuring good bacteria (like acidopholus) cannot survive without oxygen. This is why research has shown an inability to colonize poeple like us with good bacteria no matter how many capsules we take.

    Barty, thank you for reminding me not to be too dogmatic. I always hated when poeple treated me badly because what worked for them did not work for me. I have tried many "sure fire cures" that failed for me, but worked for others. I too have spend thousands of dollars on things that did not work.

    Regardless of whether MRT will work for someone, I think it is clear that CFS/FMS is based in the hypothalamus and is a chronic state of fight or flight syndrome. Since the body cannot maintain in this state indefinately we eventually crash into terrible fatigue - the exhaustion stage of Hans Seyle's General Adaptation Syndrome (GAS for short). Anyone interested in researching this further should do some reading on GAS and can read Chronic Fatigue Unmasked.

    I have also spent time and money to go to a seminar in GA that claimed to have a 95% cure rate for Chronic Fatigue and Fibro. I left uncured. But, I met many poeple there who did get better. They also taught that CFS/FMS was based on the hypothalamus and had stacks of research to prove it. If it had not been for my trip to GA, I would not have ever believed that something like MRT could possibly work.

    Something is causing us to live in a state of hypothalamus overreactivity (fight or flight). So whatever helps us to discover what that is is helpful.

    ONe woman I met who was cured in Georgia Seminar, used to get extremely ill whenever it rained even though she no longer was bedridden with fatigue after the seminar. She remembered that as a child an abusive situation had happened to her on a rainy stormy night. So once her hypothalamus became overreactive, any rainy stormy day triggered a flight or fight response by the body. She had long forgotten the incident, but it was brought to her mind later and she was able to rid herself of this last remaining symptom.

    So it is very tricky - why we go into fight or flight. It CFS physical or mental. It is definately physical! THere are plenty of mentally ill and phobic individuals out there without the symptoms of CFS and FMS.

    I believe the reason our hypothalamus is weak is multifactorial. First of all, we live in a stressful complex society. THe average housewife has 10,000+ items to sort and catagorize in her home. We are drowing in junk mail, telemarketing calls, noise pollution, towering inboxs, ect ect. Hyerstimulation of the hypothalamus we were never created to endure.

    IF you really want to understand how different our society is in terms of stress read "Henry and the Great Society". It will change your life forever. One of the best books I ever read. Our hypothalamus cannot withstand the hyperstimulation it is being put through by modern lifestyles. THat is why I believe TV is harmful for people like us. It hyperstimulates the H. This is why life simplification has been so crucial for my recovery.

    So what messages has my body been sending me through my symptoms? It has been telling me that it cannot take all the hyperstimulation anymore and I need to change. I have been doing that.

    Why do some of our H's go into overdrive when the rest of the population seems to careen ahead at hyperspeed unscathed. I don't know - genetics perhaps?