Mitochondrial Support

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by bioman85, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    Hey all,

    I've recently been reading up on the mitochondrial deficiencies as part of the puzzle to chronic fatigue. Has anyone tried the mitochondrial support regimen:

    Co-enzyme Q 10 300 - 360mg (the oil of the engine, this moves electrons from one molecule to another)
    L-carnitine 2,000 - 3,000mg (the oil of the engine, this moves ATP and ADP across mito membranes)
    D-ribose 15grams (the raw material to make new ATP)
    Magnesium 400 - 800mg (the spark plugs, this fires up many enzyme reactions)

    I know that many of you have tried CoQ10 with some success, but maybe that is only part of the solution.[This Message was Edited on 03/01/2006]
  2. CinCA

    CinCA New Member

    I'm flaring big-time (CFS) at the moment. Taking magnesium, but I may try the above suggestions, too. Thanks for the info!

    C.
  3. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    There is a lot of research pertaining to mitochondrial dysfunction relating to chronic fatigue. The most recent work by Dr. Kerr points to irregularities in some gene expressions of CFS patients. Some of the genes that were found to be abnormal affect the functioning of mitochondria within all of our cells.
  4. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    Which doctor Kerr are you talking about?
    Thanks

    Louise
  5. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    do you know where you can get the d-ribose from?
    I think Teitelbaum sells it on his site.. but unsure if it is widely available as a supplement.
    Thanks
    Delia
  6. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    Here is a link to the article about Dr. Kerr's research from last year:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725093.700

    The D-Ribose that Tietelbuam used in his research was Corvalen, which I bought through the website. I just got my CoQ10, so I will be starting this regimen tomorrow. I'll let you know how I progress.
  7. Tantallon

    Tantallon New Member

    so this info I find interesting, have tried Co-Q10 in the past (2 yrs ago) but I suppose if the other problems were not addressed that I have then that is why, perhaps, I did not notice any marked difference in my health.

    Am looking into getting D-Ribose so the Corvalen reference is one I can search on.

    Thanks for posting
    Sue
  8. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    I have everything except for the Corvalen, but regardless I'm starting the regimen tomorrow. Also, NADH is reccomended for mitochondrial support, which I know some people have taken seperately with mixed results. Perhaps if we look at the full picture and support mitochondrial production with the whole gamut of supplements, greater results can be achieved.
  9. elsa

    elsa New Member

    I think it is just as immportant as treating hormone imbalance, infection/immune treatment and fixing the sleep. I have been seriously treating "fibro" mitochondria dysfunction just in the last little while .... Last steps so to speak.

    I have done little things here and there, but after I got my hormone program under way, I seriously took on the mitochondria.

    I take 1cc BComp. and 1cc B12 injections 1xwk, aceltyl-l-carnitine 1000 - 1500mgs 2 or 3xd, alpha lipoic acid 100mgs 2xd, Bio-Pro which is Sub-L ATP 2mgs an NADH 2mgs 2xd, pregnenolone 100mgs 2xd (made in mitochondria cells, energy, memory enhancer, sense of well being) ....

    .... Melotonin 1mg at bedtime (besides sleep/wake, this is a powerful antioxident that revile's glutithione, boost immune), Beyond C ... 4gms C plus 200mgs ribose, idebenone (synthetic CoQ10 ... does all the same as CoQ but without the free radical producing feature which occurs under hypoxic, low oxygen, conditions ....

    Have ordered vitamin A not necessarily for motochondria but because I have read how very similar low A symptoms and my basic symptoms are related.

    I have gotten where I can "feel" when I haven't taken one of these supplements ... getting pretty attached to the "feed what is needed" theory ...

    I am ever hopeful for better and better days ... might be greedy of me ... Things are pretty good ... I worked a 12 1/2 hour day today ... very physical, non-stop, no sitting down,etc ... and then I went grocery shopping.

    I am very blessed to be where I am physically in relation to the CFS/FMS monster.

    Elsa
  10. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    thanks for replying, elsa! I'm on thyroid and cortisol right now, while treating infections with antivirals and boosting my immune system. I feel pretty rotten right now, but I know I'm doing everything I can to better my health.

    chris
  11. bpmwriter

    bpmwriter New Member


    are there any products out there with a substantial amount of these supplements in the same bottle? i take magnesium everyday and have halfheartedly experimented with carnitine and ribose, but didn't recognize any noticeable gains. i'd like to introduce some kind of mitochondrial support, but also trying to keep my supplement load light and efficient.

    eddie
  12. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    i'm not sure, as i haven't looked for any. I know that the d-ribose that Tietelbaum used in his experiments comes in a powder form , so at least you will have to get that seperately. Maybe Elsa can help you more than me, sorry!

    Good luck,
    Chris
  13. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    I have used a mitochondria support "cocktail" with great success. It took a couple months to really notice the impact but it steadily improved my condition and took me out of a relapse.

    Based on information from Dr. Teitelbaum, Dr. Myhill and my own personal physician, I have established the following "cocktail":

    Acetyl-L Carnitine (500 mg)
    Coenzyme Q10 (200 mg)
    B12 (1000 mg)
    B-complex (500 mg)
    Vitamin C (1 pckg - 1000 mg, Raspberry Emer'gen-C brand)
    Magnesium (1 oz, Liquid Ionic brand, I take this at night)
    D-ribose (1 to 5 grams before or after exercise, New Roots Herbal brand)

    I take other supplements as well but the above are specifically for the mitochondria.






    [This Message was Edited on 03/09/2006]
  14. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    Mitochondrial Energy Treatments
    Use these for 4-9 months. Then drop the dose to the lowest dose that maintains the effect (or stop it if no benefit).

    ____ * Acetyl-L-Carnitine
    500 mg - 1 capsule once or twice a day for 3 months. Then 250 to 500 mg/day or stop it. Although important in CFS/FMS, it is even more important to take this if you also have Mitral Valve Prolapse, MS, and/or elevated blood triglycerides. This helps with weight loss.

    ____ Coenzyme Q10
    200 mg - 1 x a day. Especially important if taking cholesterol lowering prescriptions (e.g.-Mevacor). Take it with vitamin E or a meal that has fat, oil supplements or in an oil based form to improve absorption. Vitaline makes the best form and this is the one I recommend. It also already contains vitamin E to enhance absorption.

    ____ Magnesium/Potassium Aspartate
    two 500mg capsules- 2 x a day (need to use a “fully reacted” brand) for 3 to 4 months.

    ____ Daily Energy B-complex
    1 capsule in the morning or mid day (by Enzymatic Therapies). (Already contained in # 1- The Energy Revitalization System.)

    ____ NADH (Enada brand)
    10 mg sublingual tablets – dissolve one under the tongue (or swallowed two 5 mg tablets) each morning. Take it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning (leave it by your bedside in the bottle or foil wrap with a glass of water) at least ½ hour before eating, It takes 2 months to see if it works.
  15. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    Dr Sinatra has developed several schemes for age management, high blood pressure, arrhythmias, mitral valve prolapse, congestive cardiac failure, syndrome X, for professional and world class athletes, but also for fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and mitochondrial cytopathies.

    He recommends the following daily cocktail for CFS:

    Co-enzyme Q 10 300 - 360mg (the oil of the engine, this moves electrons from one molecule to another)

    L-carnitine 2,000 - 3,000mg (the oil of the engine, this moves ATP and ADP across mito membranes)

    D-ribose 15grams (the raw material to make new ATP)

    Magnesium 400 - 800mg (the spark plugs, this fires up many enzyme reactions)

    To this (Dr. Myhill) would also add niacinamide 500mgs daily (the raw material to make NAD). I would expect this cocktail of supplements to work best taken together, not as individual supplements.

    (Dr Myhill states) I have tried a number of my patients on this cocktail of supplements and have already had some very encouraging feedback.
  16. neen85

    neen85 New Member

    I was unaware that L-carnatine would help MVP! Daneen
  17. bioman85

    bioman85 New Member

    Thanks for posting. What kind of exercise do you do?
  18. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    Generally I do strength training. Cardio, even walking, gives me less bang for the buck it seems... exhausts me much quicker.

    But if I am not exercising... I would take the d-ribose mis-day or before "activity" of any type ;)

  19. elsa

    elsa New Member

    I'm not certain about an all in one type. I tend to use the individual dosing supplements. I like to control amounts plus I can always tell what helps me and what doesn't when I take things seperately.

    I haven't had much luck with multi-ingredient products. For the most part I couldn't find them with the right amt per ingredient .... They would list all I was looking for, but usually at a fraction of the amount I wanted.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help. My first inclination would be to look at Teitelbaum's product list. He's at the top of the latest things and his supplements probably have the larger amts we often need ...

    I would like to suggest trying acetyl-l-carnitine at a good dose. It influences so many things ... I truly feel effects of alcar and miss it if I go off for a few days. Take it with ALA and really feel the mitochondria start to come back to life.

    It's also good for our cognitive problems .... take 1000mgs 2xd ... or 3xd. Caps usually come in 500mg strength which can get pricey, but there are powdered products out there that are much more cost effective.

    ALA ... 100 mgs 3xd is one recommendation. Mine are 300mgs and can take 3xd ....

    I hope you are doing well ...

    Elsa
  20. elsa

    elsa New Member

    It sounds like you are doing alot of the right things. I'm sorry you're not feeling all world yet, but I think you will.

    What you are doing is, for the most part, exactly what I did / am doing. I think the only difference really is I did most of my treatments more individually then you are... you know .. infection first ... immune ... nutritional ... sleep, etc.. I didn't really know which way was up at first. Thank goodness for this board!

    Just keep going ... one foot, then the next. You'll get there ...

    Elsa