More postMickel Therapy success

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by yellowbird, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. yellowbird

    yellowbird New Member

    Hi everyone,

    Just wanted to let you all know that I continue to be doing amazingly well since finishing up Mickel Therapy last December. I swam laps in the pool today for AN HOUR. With no after-effects at all other than normal, healthy tiredness.

    I am well, happy and living a life I really never imagined was possible, for me at least.

    If you are tempted to write me off as never having had "real CFS", think again. I met every criterion, was very much officially diagnosed and suffered horribly for 14 years.

    Please, please, please if you think Mickel therapy might be up your alley in any way, TRY IT.


  2. zoster

    zoster New Member

    Hi yellowbird,

    It's really great that you are doing so well after suffering for so long and thankyou for letting us all know about wht helped you.

    I read the Mickel book but couldn't relate to any of how he says we are thinking. I don't have any negative thoughts about what will happen if I exert myself I simply try to do things but cannot keep going as my body becomes progressively weaker until I cannot stand any longer. I have a laugh at things and my mood isn't down for no reason. I look for the positives in everything, enjoy the little things and I love to see friends when I am able to.

    I do want to keep an open mind about all things that may help though.

    Could I ask you a few questions?

    Did you have testing for Mitochondrial failure? My tests show I am unable to produce enough ATP (chemical energy)for my body to work properly. I wonder if Mickel therapy would be recommended for this?

    Were you checked for Lyme disease?

    Did your ME/CFS start with an infection?

    Did you test high for heavy metals?

    Did you have negative thoughts about what you could do?

    What happened if you pushed yourself as hard as you could phsically and mentally before you had Mickel therapy?

    I spoke with my GP recently about Psychotherapy etc and he thinks it probably wouldn't be of any help because I have real M.E. wheras some diagnosed with it don't. He says other cases are different to mine. I spoke with him about CBT and graded exercise - I said it sounds like basic common sense and he agreed. I tried graded exercise for myself (common sense!) before I even went to my doctor to see why I was getting weaker and weaker every time I exerted myself.

    I'd be so grateful if you could let me know the answers to these questions.

    Very best wishes

  3. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Yellowbird,

    Thanks for coming back and giving us an update. And congratulations on your remarkable improvements! I know your post will cause a certain amount of chagrin for some readers. I personally believe these types of therapies DO work for some people, though I doubt would be effective for everybody. At least not until certain "layers" are addressed first.

    I ran into a remarkable post a couple days ago that describes well some of my perspectives on these health syndromes. If you had time to look at it and comment, I would appreciate any thoughts you may have. When I first read it, I immediately thought of people like yourself who have been able to find success using things like Mickel therapy. That post can be access by clicking on this link: <a href="">Hypothalamic dysfunction = "the key"</a>.

    Again, many congratulations on your remarkable success story. May you continue to enjoy good health. Thanks also for your courage in posting about your experience using a "controversial" therapy! :)

    Regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 09/10/2008]
  4. yellowbird

    yellowbird New Member

    Hi Zoster:

    A far as I know I was never tested for that. Up here in Canada there are no private labs, & that sounds like one of the more 'exploratory' (as opposed to diagnostic) ones so I doubt that would have been available to me.

    Mickel therapy is 'recommended' or suitable for anyone with an official diagnosis though.

    Never checked for lyme, don't think I was for heavy metals either, not sure though.

    I had several infections that occurred at the beginning of my illness, although from the MT perspective these would be a consequence of the illness rather than a cause.

    I'm not really sure whether I had "negative thoughts" about my abilities, I'm not sure I totally understand the question.

    When I pushed myself hard I had, like everyone with this illness, massive exacerbation of symptoms.

    Please note that this treatment, although it is a spoken one, is NOT PSYCHOTHERAPY. Psychotherapy is based on a mind-body split, anyone "treating" you with such a perspective can only make things worse for someone with this illness.

    Hi Wayne:

    The central premise of MT is that the symptoms are in fact caused by hypothalamic disfunction. MT fits in perfectly well with a lot of the science around CFS, and it's also perfectly compatible with the science of the "new paradigm" (Dr. Candace Pert et al)

    Hypothlamic dysfunction is totally reversible, I had the many others who have recovered are here to attest to that. It's not exactly a piece of cake, MT isn't easy as such. I think you're learning to exist in the world in a whole different way, using your body&mind differently, it's not a small undertaking.

    But profoundly joyful and worth it.

    Best wishes to everyone,
    [This Message was Edited on 09/10/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 09/10/2008]
  5. jenbooks13

    jenbooks13 New Member

    You can find a few talks/interviews with Dr Mickel on youtube. Here's one from June:

    It's interesting, if you set aside whatever views you might have about woo-woo like "matrix" or "channeling" (he is speaking to a woo-woo group headed by a guy named Steve Rother. I don't know much about the group.)

    I worked with Dr Mickel for a while by email and I found it helpful. I should probably get back to it, at this point I think I understand the concepts. Perhaps the only issue was that I started wanting to make massive changes in my life that my life could not really sustain that rapidly. I still do want to make those changes and am setting some things in motion but a little more reasonably.

    You have to take what you can from tools like these. It is different than psychotherapy. I'm not sure it's dealing with the hypothalamus. It might actually be dealing with what is called the gut-brain, the enteric nervous system. It's about "body feelings" in a way.

    Anyway, Dr Mickel never denied my lyme. He thought he could help me to the extent that I might have an "energy disorder" along with lyme, but did not claim he could cure a lyme infection. That seemed reasonable.

    I stopped because he got so busy and there is only so far you can go on email.
  6. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi again Yellowbird,

    Just a quick question for you. Do you think that all cases of hypothalamic dysfunction are reversable?

    Seems if it was brought on by physical trauma, or some kind of infectious agent, there could be varying degrees of physical dysfunction that might not be so amenable to the Mickel Therapy.

    Also, it seems I've read in the past that some people seemed to have their conditions deteriorate using MT. Are you familiar with these stories? I'm wondering why that would be; perhaps when they were dealing with a situation where there was more physical impairment?

    I really have a sincere curiosity about some of the dynamics at play in differing cases. It would seem likely to me that some people are able to take advantage of what MT has to offer, but others may not.

    Your thoughts?

    Regards, Wayne
  7. yellowbird

    yellowbird New Member

    You know.... life is bit of a mystery!

    Nothing in life is for everyone, that's for sure. I'm not really here to try and promote MT as the thing for everyone...

    To my mind, the sign of whether it will work for you or not is whether it makes some sense and appeals to you somewhat.

  8. u&iraok

    u&iraok New Member

    My question is if the age at when the hypothalamus dysfunction occurs makes a difference. If it happens in childhood or a person were born with it, would the chance of success be lower to try and repair the damage when one is an adult? The brain has already formed and it may be too late.

    There's also the Amygdala Hypothesis:

    By Ashok Gupta

    "In my 2002 paper (1), it was hypothesised that ME/CFS is a neurobiological condition caused by a conditioned trauma in the amygdala following an acute viral, bacterial or physical insult, combined with psycho-social distress. Once the classical and operant conditioning has occurred, the amygdala becomes hyper-sensitive to signals from both the body and external stimuli, and magnifies both the extent and frequency of the incoming stimuli in the sensory thalamus and cortex. This then produces the ME/CFS vicious circle, where an unconscious negative reaction to symptoms causes chronic stimulation of the HPA axis, immune reactivation/dysfunction, chronic sympathetic stimulation leading to autonomic dysfunction, mental and physical exhaustion, and a host of other distressing symptoms and secondary complications. And these are exactly the symptoms that the amygdala and associated limbic structures are trained to monitor and respond to, perpetuating a vicious circle. Recovery from ME/CFS may involve projections from the medial prefrontal cortex to the amygdala, to control the amygdala’s expressions."

    Then he talks about amygdala retraining. Is this similar?
  9. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    Jam said.

    "aussiewoman/just because you believe it's a scam not other people do.
    I don't believe in drugs, but I'm not here yelling out to those taking drugs, that they are a scam."

    I guess it would be a matter of perception and how you define the word. I think conspiracy theories about Big Pharma, exaggerating the danger of western medicine could be construed as saying it is a scam. But I guess that's okay since you perceive other views as being negative.

    Unfortunately, it does appear that sometimes you yell. But again, that may be perceived.

    A rose by any other name. :&gt;)


    Aussie, somehow I missed your post on definitions. Also missed that Jam did call Big Pharma a scam. I think it is time for a nap.[This Message was Edited on 07/15/2010]