My IGENEX Lab Results

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by chaps, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. chaps

    chaps New Member

    My test was taken almost two years ago. I didn't have an LLMD interpret them, I spoke to someone at IGENEX labs who said that the results were negative. I later had a flow cytometry test done to see if there was b burgdorferi in my blood. Those results there were also deemed negative. Now, with the continuation of symptoms, plus advice from a medical intuitive who said "LYME," I'm beginning to wonder if the assessments by the lab personnel and general care physician were too conservative. I'm posting my test results here to get the opinions of some of the experts, or other knowledgeable folks. Here they are:

    IGM RESULT:

    18 kDa. -
    22 kDa. -
    **23-25 kDa. -
    28 kDa. -
    30 kDa. -
    **31 kDa. -
    **34 kDa. -
    **39 kDa. -
    **41 kDa. IND
    45 kDa. -
    58 kDa. -
    66 kDa. -
    73 kDa. -
    **83-93 kDa. -

    IGG RESULT:

    18 kDa -
    22 kDa -
    **23-25 kDa -
    28 kDa -
    30 kDa -
    **31 kDa -
    **34 kDa -
    **39 kDa IND
    **41 kDa +++
    45 kDa -
    58 kDa -
    66 kDa -
    73 kDa -
    **83-93 kDa -

    GENOMIC - B BURGDORFERI NEGATIVE
    PLASMID - B BURGDORFERI POSITIVE
    CONFIRMED BY SOUTHERN DOT BLOT


    I'll appreciate your input on this.
    Thanks,
    chaps


  2. victoria

    victoria New Member

    bottom line for a diagnosis IS of course still clinical as the reliability of the WB or the southern blot (simplified test) are not very good. A clinical trial of abx (the right one and enough of it) is the bottom line to see if you respond. You may also have co-infections or just the other commonly found infections associated with Lyme but not have Lyme... but symptoms and an appropriate abx trial are what counts in final analysis.

    Here's some overall info on the old qualifications for a positive on the WB vs the 'new' ones. The 41 band is an indication...

    -------- from http://www.canlyme.com/labtests.html ----------

    "The Western Blot essentially makes a map of the different antibodies the immune system produces to the bacteria. The map separates the antibodies by the weight of their respective antigens and are reported in units called kilo daltons or kDa.

    For example, a Western Blot may report bands at 22, 23, 25, 31, 34, 39, and 41 kDa.

    Each of these bands represents an antibody response to a specific protein found on the spirochete.

    The 41 band indicates an antibody to the flagella 41 kDa protein and is nonspecific. The 31 kDa band represents the OSPA protein and is specific for just a few species of Borrelia, as is the 34 band OSPB, and 23 kDa OSPC.

    In 1994, the Association of State and Territorial Public Health Laboratory Directors, under a CDC grant, decided that there should be consistency between labs reporting Lyme disease Western Blots, and that a specific reporting criteria should be established.

    The consensus committe, chaired by Dr. Michael Osterholm, Ph.D., MN, set nationwide standards for Western Blot reporting. This sounds good, but one could argue they made a bad situation worse.

    Prior to the hearing, virtually every lab had accepted bands 22, 23, 25, 31, and 34 kDa as specific and significant, and reported them as positive for exposure to Borrelia burgdorferi. Not only are these bands specific for Borrelia species, but they represent all of the major outer surface proteins being used to develop the Lyme vaccines. The committee, without any clear reasoning, disqualified those bands as even being reportable.

    After the consensus meeting, those bands were no longer acceptable. The result was that what had been a fair-to-good test for detecting Lyme disease had now become poor, arguably useless.
    -----------------------------

    I hope you can find a good LLMD who can make a good clinical dx.

    (While my son came up positive to the WB even to the CDC's tracking standards, he also had babesia and bartonella as evidenced by his symptoms and his reactions to treatment by abx; those tests were never positive tho.)

    all the best,
    Victoria

  3. chaps

    chaps New Member

    If I knew how unreliable these tests are, I never would have spent all that money having them done.

    My original dx was for Epstein-Barr, which I believe I had. With antiviral treatment, I responded positively although after being on it for a while other symptoms, such as the arthritis started coming back, so it appears that the EBV was just an opportunistic freeloader that came along due to the suppressed immune system. I have to figure out if the leaky gut, fungus, and parasites were caused by Lyme or mercury toxicity due to an abundance of amalgam fillings for many years.

    This is the first I have heard of abx treatment, I'm new to Lyme since it was just recently presented to me as a possibility. I thought we had ruled it out a few years ago. If it has to do with heavy or prolonged doses of antibiotics, then I don't like the sound of it. This is not fun.

    Thanks for the info.
  4. victoria

    victoria New Member

    it definitely isn't fun. I know how frustrating it is, and herxing is like hell.

    But if you do have it + symptoms, it is necessary to treat. Usually abx are recommended first. But many know already they cannot tolerate it, so there are other approaches. Stephen Buhner has an herbal protocol, there's the Dr. Lee Cowden approach too... also Dr. Klinghardt, and other alternatives like Rife, Salt/C, Marshall Protocol.

    Lots of controversies on all of these alternatives... and of course not everybody does well with these protocols, not even the abx.

    FWIW -my opinion is, find a good LLMD to work with. Try a few weeks of proper dosage of abx (go by ILADS guidelines, not the IDSA's) to see if you get a herx, you may need to try a few different ones as it's hard to know exactly what infections you might have (that's where having an experienced doctor is extremely helpful).

    Then modify or change protocols, depending on your responses over time or your own decision as to how to treat it. Usually abx will work at least to a certain extent; others feel it just drives it deeper into the tissues. Nobody knows totally for sure, my guess is that it just depends on your own inner ecology.

    (My son did 3.5 years of pulsing oral abx (was not on them continuously so as to give his immune system time to rest/recover) but was not fully cured. He does some alternative protocols, they seem like they help, but so far he's not cured, 5 years after initial dx. But we all agree the abx likely saved his life as he was starting to go down quickly after a few years of slowly increasing symptoms.

    Good luck in whatever you decide to do.... just don't take a trip down the river of denial... never works, ultimately.

    all the best,
    Victoria

  5. chaps

    chaps New Member

    That's helpful info.

    How long was your son having symptoms before you starting treating Lyme?

    Is it impossible for a person to become wholly well if they didn't catch Lyme in the early stages?

    It sounds like you have to go ahead and treat without really knowing for sure if you even have it. Yikes, this is one crazy disease.

    I wish your son many blessings and healing.

    -chaps
  6. nancycleek

    nancycleek New Member

    testing is unreliable because infection hides behind the cells. mutates,With late stage infection t-cells are lowered wich is a good indication of lyme it is cucial to see lyme literate Dr to assess you. It took me 26 Doctors and 10 years to figure that out. The sooner the better. unfortunately disease infected my central nervous system, brain, and bone marrow before I saw a LLDR. Regarding treatment, current CDC guidlines are ineffective, and no Dr will treat outside these guidlines for fear of losing their licence. contact Lymeinfo@lduc.org Judy Weeg will help you. have her phone # if you need it. Wish you luck and good health
  7. chaps

    chaps New Member

    I need to get some treatment sooner rather than later. I hear from so many people that antibiotics don't work and they kill your liver. I'm trying to decide who to see first, a homeopathic person, or an LLMD.
  8. nancycleek

    nancycleek New Member

    Hi chaps! I believe a combination of herbs, detoxifying, and antibiotics works best. I have a pickline w/ IV antibiotic, take 2 different oral antibiotics, artimesia, supplements. 9 months ago i was unable to read or write, couldnt understand words, arms, hands, legs didnt work etc. I was a very sick woman. Obviously much better now! My dr. is an osteopathic dr. He monitors liver etc. w/ labs. also milk thistle helps. Have you contacted lyme disease united coalition? Their information saved my life. www.lymeiniowa.com or e-mail judy weeg (pres. of LDUC) ticktalk6@mchsi.com connie strasheim is a health journalist whos book Insights into Lyme Disease Treatment is good. She interviewed top practitioners including holistic. if you want to contact me directly ndolan345@charter.net
  9. jarjar

    jarjar New Member

    Any true LLMD would look at those results with whatever your symptoms are and consider that a test positive for lyme. Even IND is a weak signal for a positive in a LLMD's mind.
    Igenex saying your aren't positive is a joke. They are having to go buy some rules laid down to them by the NIH or whoever.
    Sorry I don't post here often or I would have said something earlier. Hope you have found a good Dr. by now.

    jay

    Here is a link from the truth about lyme disease site. If you haven't researched the site you should.

    There are nine known Borrelia burgdorferi genus specie specific KDA Western Blot antibodies (bands): 18 23 30 31 34 37 39 83 and 93. Only one of these Borrelia burgdorferi genus specie specific bands is needed to confirm that there is serological evidence of exposure to the Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete and can confirm a clinical diagnosis of Lyme disease. (More info pages 12 & 13 "Western Blot Made Easy": http://www.publichealthalert.org/pdfnew/2007_06.pdf
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Igenex Western Blot Break Down by band
    9 cross-reactive for Borrellia
    12 specific for Bb
    18 highly specific to Lyme (Many LLMD's say if this band alone is positive, you have lyme - see link above)
    20 cross-reactive for Borrellia
    21 unknown
    22 specific for Bb, probably really the 23/25 band
    23-25 outer surface protein C (OspC), specific for Bb
    28 unknown
    30 unknown; probably an outer surface protein; common in European and
    one California strain - Has cross-reactivity with several different types of viruses
    31 outer surface protein A (OspA), specific for Bb - Has cross-reactivity with several different types of viruses
    34 outer surface protein B (OspB); specific for Bb
    35 specific for Bb
    37 specific for Bb
    38 cross-reactive for Bb
    39 is a major protein of Bb flagellin; specific for Bb
    41 flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after a spirochete infection but is NOT specific to Lyme (i.e, other spirochete diseases have flagellas - see link above "Western Blot Made Easy" for more info)
    45 cross-reactive for all Borellia
    50 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
    55 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
    57 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
    58 unknown but may be a heat-shock Bb protein
    60 cross reactive for all Borrellia
    66 cross-reactive for all Borrelia, common in all bacteria
    83 specific antigen for the Lyme bacterium, probably a cytoplasmic membrane
    93 unknown, probably the same protein in band 83, just migrates differently in some patients[/b]
    [This Message was Edited on 05/16/2010]
  10. ChuckNBerkeley

    ChuckNBerkeley New Member

    Everyone who has commented on this IGeneX result, on multiple web sites, over now three months, misses;

    "PLASMID - B BURGDORFERI POSITIVE
    CONFIRMED BY SOUTHERN DOT BLOT"