My Impedance Cardiograph Results

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by cct, Jan 14, 2007.

  1. cct

    cct Member

    RE: Cheney/Peckerman/Sinatra's theory on heart function in relation to CFS


    Testing was an easy process. The most difficult part of the test was getting to the doctor's office and then getting back home again!

    My test results seem to hang mostly in the low side of normal. A few results were below normal and a few were above normal.

    My cardiac output was 4.7 while lying down and 4.0 when standing up. These numbers are just inside the "normal" range. They are normal, but very low normal.

    I am not totally clear on what all of these measurements mean (there are 18 measurements that are taken by the BioZ machine). The cardiologist explained my test results by using the analogy of a super-charged car engine and a little 4-cylinder sub-compact engine. The cardiologist said that I have a low-powered engine instead of a high-powered engine. He did not seem to think that these low numbers were any big deal. He did not recommend any treatment.

    I have found some additional information regarding these tests at impedancecardiography.com which provides a descriptive overview of the test. Also, there is an article by Neil Treister titled "A Clinician's Guide to Interpreting an Impedance Cardiography Hemodynamic Status Report" that provides some more technical explanations.

    The cardiologist did decide that he wants me to take another test. I am scheduled for a Stress Echo on Monday the 22nd. I seriously doubt that the Stress Echo will show anything more than my mitral valve prolapse, but if something interesting turns up, I will post it on this message board!



  2. u34rb

    u34rb New Member

    cct,

    Do you know your 'stroke index' and 'thoracic fluid content'?
  3. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi, Carron!

    Thank you for the report!

    I'm so glad to hear that you're not among the estimated half of CFS patients who have abnormal results on this test! That is great news. I hope that you can get better so that you never have to develop the serious heart problems.

    I wonder what my test results will be. I think that if mine turn out like yours, I will still take some "good for the heart" supplements anyway, just for the heck of it.

    I'm already feeling better from just the 300 mg Co Q-10 and the 15 mg d-ribose.

    Love,
    Forebearance
  4. cct

    cct Member

    Hi Everyone -

    Thanks for reading my post!

    u34rb - - - My Stroke Index while lying down was 52 and 40 when standing. My Thoracic Fluid Content was 25.7 while lying down and 23.1 while standing.


    nofool - - - I disagree with you. I believe that Cheney is on to something, but I do not know exactly how his new heart-problem approach is interrelated to the entire CFS picture. Personally, I believe that there is an underlying problem with the mitochondria and the bad mitos are creating poor heart function.


    Forebearance - - - When is your test scheduled? I think that the test results are good information to have because it supplies a baseline so that we can see if Hawthorne, D-ribose, Gookinaid, CoQ10, etc. are having any effect on the heart and mitocondria. I will probably start trying a few additional heart supplements as soon as I complete the Stress Echo.


    [This Message was Edited on 01/15/2007]
  5. u34rb

    u34rb New Member

    cct,

    If you are in herat failure, then according to www.cdic.com/predict you are not at high risk of "clinical deterioration" according to your 'stroke index' and 'thoracic fluid content' values.
  6. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I didn't see this earlier, I've been off the board for several days because I was sick and just too tired to post.

    Your results are similar to mine, except your cardiac output is lower. All I can say is that Dr. Taylor said these results ARE significant. He's not a cardiologist (although my test was done by a cardiologist), but he is very well read, and he did say that many doctors would look at the results and say no big deal. Dr. Taylor said the results could be subtle, but it would be enough to cause the CFIDS exhaustion etc.

    I do think I'm starting to do better on Dr. Taylor's protocol, which is described in my other post, except I got sick for a week which was so discouraging, just when I was starting to feel better.

    Dr. Taylor might be willing to do a phone consultation. It wouldn't hurt to try. You could also just try Taylor's protocol, or at least some of it. I think the large doses of B12 and the d-ribose he has me on are making the biggest difference.

    Take care --

    Mary
  7. cct

    cct Member

    u34rb,

    Thanks for the information . . and thanks for doing some research for me.

    I will investigate the website that you have listed.

    cct
  8. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    One more question - what were your acceleration index (AI) and velocity index (VI)? The Cardiodynamics website said that these measure pumping action of the heart.

    These were among my worst numbers - AI lying down was 44 (half of the lowest normal value) and 64 standing up, still quite a bit below the lowest normal value.

    VI was 33 lying down (the very bottom of low normal) and 34 standing.

    Interesting - for once a test is showing something wrong. All my other tests were always normal (except for a low white count).

    Hope you're doing okay --

    Mary
  9. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    My test is Thursday (the 18th). I'm nervous because they've never done this test before, and I have to try to make sure they follow the same protocol, roughly, that Dr. Peckerman used.

    Yes, I want to get a "before" picture of my heart, before I start taking too much stuff. The instant I'm done I'm starting more L-Carnitine. (250 mg, maybe every few days to start)

    Wish me luck! I'll report the results.

    Forebearance
  10. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Forebearance - the most important thing is that they need to do the lying down part first, and then the standing part. It's not too complicated so don't worry about it. Bring a copy of Peckerman's article with you, and it wouldn't hurt if you scanned it yourself so you'd know the general protocol. Don't drink caffeine before the test.

    cct -- I broke my right foot today (it's a long story) so I may be off the board for awhile so if you answer my earlier response and I don't reply, that's why. I have so much going, I'm supposed to be moving soon, selling my mobile home and buying another one, and so on, and now this, and just when my energy is picking up, anyways I may be off for awhile.

    Hasta la --

    Mary
  11. cct

    cct Member

    Mary,

    Just in case you manage to find the time to get back on this board and visit this thread . . . .

    My Acceleration Index was 158 while lying down and 109 when standing.

    My Velocity Index was 79 while lying down and 56 when standing.

    (P.S. I discovered the news about your broken foot on your impedance test results thread. You will find my comments there. Best wishes . . Carron)


    [This Message was Edited on 01/18/2007]
  12. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Thanks for the ACI and VI numbers. Those numbers are better for you than mine were, but my cardiac output numbers were better than yours (although still low). It's a puzzlement --

    Take care --

    Mary
  13. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I had my heart test today. Unfortunately, I had a serious case of "white coat syndrome". Going to doctors' offices terrifies me in general, and new ones are worse. I could feel a burst of adrenalin. My face was flushed.

    As a result, I'm not sure how accurate the test was. My blood pressure and heart rate were way up. Rats! Maybe I will have to do it again.

    Here were my results:

    Cardiac Output 8.0 lying, 6.4 standing
    Stroke Index 38 lying, 28 standing
    Stroke Volume 83 lying, 62 standing
    Acceleration Index 53 lying, 45 standing
    Velocity Index 35 lying, 23 standing

    I have an appointment to discuss it with a new, unknown doctor on Monday. I'm sure my heart will be pounding then, too! lol

    Forebearance
  14. cct

    cct Member

    Forebearance,

    Wow! Your cardiac output numbers are a little high. Do you have high blood pressure? And then your stroke, acceleration, and velocity numbers are really low. That is kind of crazy!

    I understand about the new doctor anxiety. I get it too. Most of the time I cannot even make it to the doctors office for a new appointment. I get so stressed-out/ freaked-out that my body gets really really sick.

    If I can manage, I try to do a trial run to the new doctors office. I will drive there, park, go into the building,locate the restrooms,locate the office, and sometimes I will go into the doctor's office space.

    Then when I have to go to my actual appointment, I am not quite as anxious. My blood pressure is always higher than normal, but I do not get as freaked-out.

    You might want to try to contact the BioZ company to get their input on the effect of too much adrenaline while taking the test.

    I would think that adrenaline would skew the test results.
  15. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi, Carron!

    Nope, I don't usually have high blood pressure.

    I'll ask the doc on Monday about whether I should take the test again.

    I think I was also really nervous because I knew this was a test that might actually show something abnormal. I was scared it would show I was in really bad shape.

    One good thing about this test is that doctors who own a BioZ machine are already interested in cutting edge medicine. So they might be more open-minded about emerging illnesses.

    I hope that's true for this one I'm going to see!

    Love,
    Forebearance
  16. cct

    cct Member

    Forebearance,

    Please let us know what your doc has to say about your crazy test results.
  17. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I sure will, Carron!

    I think my cardiac output was high because my heart rate and blood pressure were high. I think adrenalin did affect the test results.

    I have one thing up my sleeve that I forgot about: Rescue Remedy! I haven't been to a new doctor in so long that I forgot I usually take it. I've gotten relaxed enough with my general doctor that I don't need it with her any more.

    That and having been to the office before, as you said, should help me be calmer.

    Now I have to go do my homework. I have a lot of heart-related vocabulary words to learn, so I will be able to understand what this guy will be talking about.

    Love, Forebearance
  18. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi, Carron and anyone else who is interested,

    I had my doctor's appointment today to discuss the results of my impedance cardiogram. Unfortunately, it was very disappointing.

    The doctor wasn't good at explaining my test results. The best he could do was to tell me that my heart was weak, and a few other things. If I had liked him as a doctor, I would have pressed him for a better explanation. But I didn't like him at all.

    He began by "explaining" CFS to me, in a condescending way, and everything he said was wrong. He apparently didn't understand the difference between CFS and garden-variety chronic fatigue.

    He wanted me to do three more heart tests (CT scan, ECG, and CAT scan) to check for coronary artery disease. And then he wanted to give me a stress test on a treadmill and start me on an excercise program. Yikes.

    I offered, in a very non-threatening way, to let him have a copy of Sarah Myhill's protocol, and when he scanned it in the exam room, while I waited, it became clear that he felt threatened that I might know more about CFS than he did.

    Altogether, he did not seem like a doctor I would want to work with. Not open-minded at all. So rats. At this point, I don't know much more than what was sort of obvious from looking at the test results, which is that my heart is weak.

    I hope I can find a better heart doctor in the future.

    How was your stress echo test?

    Love,
    Forebearance[This Message was Edited on 01/23/2007]
  19. cct

    cct Member

    Forebearance,

    Doctor's drive me crazy!

    The more doctors I meet, the less faith I have in the american medical system!

    My heart doctor is a very nice guy. A good man, thoughtful, caring, considerate, experienced, tallented, etc., but he did not provide me with any definative analysis of my impedance cardiograph test results either.

    I think that most doctors are still in the dark-ages in regard to CFS. They just do not have any knowledge of the CFS condition much less any understanding of the complexities.

    I am sorry that you had to experience another appointment with a blockhead physcian.

    As far as my Stress Echo goes, I had to reschedule due to another winter storm. Now, I am supposed to go for a run on the treadmill on Wednesday afternoon.

    I will let you know what happens.

  20. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Okay, Carron, let me know!

    This latest doctor was not the worst doctor I've ever seen, but he was in the top four. Unfortunately, few doctors in my town seem to even know what CFS is.

    Love,
    Forebearance