My pharmacist says Fibro is hypothyroid

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, Jun 9, 2003.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    My compounding Pharmacist just recommended a book to me, so I am passing along the info. I had called her to find out what sort of oil my progesterone drops were suspended in, because I am on Guai. It is olive oil, and she told me she thinks even olive oil can block it in many people, but then she told me what she thinks about fibro and told me to read this book.
    The book is called "Overcoming Thyroid Disorders" by David Brownstein, M. D..
    There is a whole section on Fibro and CFS, as this doc believes at least 85% of FMS/CFS is due to undiagnosed or inadequately treated hypothyroid and other hormonal problems.
    I ordered the book and will let you know if it is any good when I am done with it.
    Klutzo

    P.S. The Guai has continued to keep the cold I caught from going into my chest, but my immunity still sucks. I have had this cold for 10 days now and it is not getting any better.

    [This Message was Edited on 06/09/2003]
  2. LeLeHpr

    LeLeHpr New Member

    And thanks for keeping us so informed :)
  3. tandy

    tandy New Member

    for all your hard work and keeping us posted!! I'll try myself to locate the book~I've heard the thyroid theory tossed around a few times too many. You've got me wondering~
    Take care,
    Tracey
  4. 2girls

    2girls New Member

    Klutzo I have always suspected my thyroid was in termoil since the onslaught of this DD. In fact, my thyroid was hyperactive at the beginning. I saw a hypertension doc who surmised that stress from labrynthitis caused my thyroid to go into overdrive (entirely possible). Problem is, I have never recovered and symptoms are now that of hypothyroidism, all except the fact that I am underweight. I had an eposode last year where I had severe tingling/vibrating on the left side of my inner neck (thyroid). All tests since have been "normal" and my doc insisted the thyroid connection is a dead issue, but I'm not convinced.

    2girls
  5. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    My endocrinologist believes the same thing.....that an underactive thyroid and FM are the same thing. I almost agree with him, but not completely....yet....

    Marilyn :)
  6. Lendi

    Lendi New Member

    I am one of the lucky ??? ones who did test positive for hypothyroid. I've had TSH from 4.0 to .03, been on syntroid and now armour. No matter what my tests show, I still have bad days, pain and fatigue. I do feel better at really low, around .03 and icky at 1.27 but FM is still not gone, no matter what. I sure wish it were that simple.
  7. lucky

    lucky New Member

    I am sorry to read that you are still battling a cold which does not seem to get better.
    When I heard about Olive Leaf Extract and that it is supposed to be good for the immune system - and I was into weeks with walking pneumonia - I thought what can I lose by trying it.
    The results are unbelievable. After taking OLE for about 5 weeks now, not only can I breath and my allergies are much more under control, and I was able to be out planting for hours whereas before it was just not possible.
    And..the walking pneumonia, I am sure, also got better faster than I expected without running to the doctor again.
    My immune system is so very bad, and I am sure since I added the colostrum as well, I also see the benefit.
    Just wanted to share and wish that you feel better soon.
    Sincerely, Lucky
  8. lassiecass

    lassiecass New Member

    Hi Klutzo,
    I find this interesting but what about those of us that have hyperthyroid? Mine is usually in overdrive and the Doc. has been waiting for it to burn itself out for about 8 years now. Anyone else with this, Graves is what they call it.
    Soft Hugs,
    Sandy (Cass)
  9. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I agree that thyroid can't be the whole problem. I think maybe the H-P-A axis dysregulation is the problem,since that is one symptom proven to exist in 100% of us, and maybe ALL of the out of whack hormones must be fixed, not just one. Then again, I may be totally wrong. My gut says this feels right though. The many more sex hormones females have may explain why more of us get it, and why so many of us come down with FMS when we get pregnant....either that or it may just effect more women since it is passed on the X chromosome.
    I know Dr. Roby believes progesterone is the key, and the reason why mostly females get it, but if progesterone were the whole problem, men would never get it. That's why I think maybe the inter-balance between all our hormones may be key here.
    Armour Thyroid has increased my energy and reduced my pain, but it took progesterone drops to improve my moodiness.
    Even though my Adrenal Stress Index was normal this time, I am still flunking the blood pressure test for adrenal dysfunction, as my standing systolic is 22 pts. lower than my lying down systolic pressure, so I still feel I need a little cortisol, but don't know if I can convince even my holistic doc to give me any, with the normal ASI test.
    To whomever suggested the OLE. I agree it is a great product, and I have taken it in the past, but I have been on the Guai program for 7 months now, and am committed to another 2 months worth before giving up, since I already have enough Guai to go that long. I have no results so far, and every pain increase has turned out to be due to something else and resolved by correcting something else. Also, I will not wear shoes here in Florida, so if grass touching the sides of my feet in my sandals is going to block the Guai, then that's too bad, but I draw the line at shoes in 90 degree weather...they make me feel at least ten degrees hotter. Once I'm done with Guai, I will take OLE again, and several other things I really miss.
    Sorry to ramble on...thanks for all your input. I also have a book coming on the adrenal fatigue problem, and will report any new info from that. I am taking advantage of the insomnia I have as I'm adjust my thyroid dose to get some reading done...making lemons out of lemonade.
    Hugs to all,
    Klutzo
  10. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    I totally agree with Lucky about trying the OLE for your cold or Echinacea..OLE has been the best treatment I have ever tried, much better than any physician-related treatments...It, also has lowered my blood pressure and I think you have indicated that it was a problem for you, as well.. as they say, OLE ROCKS...Just read you are on the GUAI..GOOD REASON NOT TO TAKE OLE...

    I was wondering if you are still taking the Pregnenolone, now, since you are on Progesterone Drops...Do you know what source your progesterone is coming from? Is it your opinion that it should come from a natural source, rather than synthetic?

    HOPE YOUR DAY WAS GOOD,
    Plantscaper
    [This Message was Edited on 06/09/2003]
  11. tandy

    tandy New Member

    boy that was easy this time!! I called the library....they said they have it....I'm gonna go check it out!!I'm just interested in what it says~ I've read just about every one there is on FM!!(theyre all the same really!!)Thanks again Klutzo!
  12. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    My holiostic doc told me to nix the pregnenolone for now. My latest ASI test showed low DHEA, so she may put me back on it when I see her next.
    My P-drops are natural. I think that's one of the advantages of compounding pharmacies....they are totally oriented towards natural remedies. But honestly, they are helping my mood so much, I wouldn't care if they were synthetic.
    Klutzo
  13. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    Klutzo,
    Hope you’ll read my post below to Jellybelly. I was
    looking through my nutrition books for an article
    about Vit.E , purpura and estrogen and that’s how I
    happened upon Dr. Lee’s book. He talks about the
    connection between progesterone, thyroid hormone,
    estrogen and chronic fatigue. He states that estrogen
    dominance is common in women who take thyroid
    supplements.

    p.146 “When I attempted to correct their estrogen
    dominance by adding progesterone, it was common
    to see that their need for thyroid supplements
    decreased and could often be successfully
    eliminated. Thus I became aware that estrogen,
    progesterone and thyroid hormones are interrelated."

    He goes on to tell how he believes progesterone
    helps to make thyroid more available to the cells to
    produce energy.

    p.147“My hypothesis is that estrogen inhibits thyroid
    action in the cells, probably interfering with the
    binding of thyroid to it’s receptor. Both hormones
    have phenol rings at a corner of their molecule.
    Estrogen may compete with thyroid hormone at the
    site of its receptor. In so doing , the thyroid
    hormone may never complete its mission, creating
    the hypothyroid symptoms despite normal serum
    levels of thyroid hormone. Progesterone, on the
    other hand, increases the sensitivity of estrogen
    receptors for estrogen and yet, at the proper level,
    inhibits many of estrogen’s side effects. That is what
    is meant when we say that progesterone opposes
    estrogen: The lack of progesterone in a woman still
    making estrogen or taking estrogen supplements
    leads to the condition of unopposed estrogen.
    I will leave the exact mechanism of action to the
    biochemists, but it is clear to me that symptoms of
    hypothyroidism occurring in patients with
    unopposed estrogen (progesterone-deficient)
    become less so when progesterone is added and
    hormone balance is attained.”

    Could you tell me if David Brownstein’s reports
    this finding in his patients? I’m just looking for more
    evidence to the effect that estrogen dominance
    effects thyroid function and balancing it with
    progesterone helps to clear it up.
  14. lucky

    lucky New Member

    I found your message progesterone/estrogen/thyroid) very interesting in that it plays such an important role and why women are more prone of getting CFS/FMS than men and for other reasons as well.
    However, I have been on only estrogen (patches) for many years and since I had a complete hysterectomy I do not need the progesterone. Also, and this is strange, when one doctor first put me also on progesterone, I was completely out of control, my moods were unbelievable and on top of it, I got very depressed on it and was relieved that I did not have to take it. Even before the hysterectomy my hormones were never balanced which happened way before I was diagnosed with CFS 15 yrs. ago.
    The strange thing is, that with only the estrogen, my thyroid is unbelievable 'normal' as my doctor calls it, and I am one of the only women in his practice in my age group who does not need thyroid meds. The same results I got from a test which was done by an endoconologist. Which again seems to indicate, that things are not the same for each of us. However, I believe that the interaction between all these hormones do play a very important role especially with CFS/FMS.
    Take care, sincerely, Lucky
  15. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    That is one of the reasons my doc put me on the progesterone drops...to help me utilitze thyroid hormone better, and enable me to use the lowest dose possible. I seem to be doing fine on 60 mgs.
    I have no uterus, but I do have 1 1/2 ovaries, and estrogen supplementation caused me to gain a ton of weight on my abdomen and breasts. I had to lose it the hard way too, after I went off the estrogen in disgust. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
    Klutzo
  16. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    The longer I'm here on this board, reading all the very informative posts by everyone, and being an "information gatherer" (like we all have gotten pretty good at with this disease), the more I believe there are definitely underlying factors that very greatly influence FM-----and while I believe thyroid is certainly one of them, I don't think it's the only one. For me personally, finding out about the leaky gut/food allergy connection I never knew I had, has made a huge difference in my health in the last 6 months. And there are those here who have investigated hypercoagulation, underlying infections, etc. & have started treating those things, who have noticed big differences in their health. I definitely believe many of us have underlying issues----though not all identical ones----that, if we keep being good detectives & peeling back the layers of this DD, we will eventually discover & be able to treat. Might not be the elusive "cure" we are all seeking, but might make a very positive change in how we feel day-to-day....

    Hugs,
    Pam
    [This Message was Edited on 06/20/2003]
  17. idiotsinc

    idiotsinc New Member

    In most cases thyroid problems are a symptom, not a cause. It is known that lack of sleep and excess stress disrupts the endocrine system, especially the thyroid. Also causes problems with the production of adrenaline. Everything keeps pointing back to sleep problems.

    Bob
  18. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    ...that on those rare occassions when I sleep really well, I feel almost normal the next day.
    But the next question is: What is causing the sleep problems?
    It's like an onion with more and more layers to peel back!
    Klutzo
  19. horsegal

    horsegal New Member

    Seems this thread has a couple of subjects...I have been better since I started a combinatin estrogen/progesterone pill. I did a couple of things nearly at the same time, so I'm not sure which was the "one" med that helped, but the FEM hrt brand is a combo pill and it helps with the hot/cold things ....not completely gone, but bearable. Over-all, I do think the hormones have helped a great deal, esp. with fatigue. Maybe that has a connection to the thyroid. (That's what I think now from all the info presented above)

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