Mycoplasma Question

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, Dec 7, 2002.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    A recent post about autoimmunity got me thinking about Mycoplasmas and I have a couple of questions for those of you who are really into it....Jellybelly and Mikie?
    I know 70% of a group of FMSers were found to have mycoplasmas, but has anyone looked at a group of healthy folks to see how many of them may be positive for mycoplasmas as well?
    I am remembering what happened with the EBV virus, and how it was falsly announced by one researcher that it was the cause of CFS, until it was found that 85% of the healthy population had it also.
    Do you guys think Mycoplasmas are the cause of FMS/CFS, or do you think they are just an opportunistic infection taking over fertile ground (like the reactivated EBV) after whatever the real cause is has made you weak?
    Do you know of anyone who has completely recovered or at least recovered enough to go back to work after treatment for mycoplasmas?
    I am very interested in this, but have not yet asked to be tested since I am allergic to most antibiotics, including doxycycline.
    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Klutzo
  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    A recent post about autoimmunity got me thinking about Mycoplasmas and I have a couple of questions for those of you who are really into it....Jellybelly and Mikie?
    I know 70% of a group of FMSers were found to have mycoplasmas, but has anyone looked at a group of healthy folks to see how many of them may be positive for mycoplasmas as well?
    I am remembering what happened with the EBV virus, and how it was falsly announced by one researcher that it was the cause of CFS, until it was found that 85% of the healthy population had it also.
    Do you guys think Mycoplasmas are the cause of FMS/CFS, or do you think they are just an opportunistic infection taking over fertile ground (like the reactivated EBV) after whatever the real cause is has made you weak?
    Do you know of anyone who has completely recovered or at least recovered enough to go back to work after treatment for mycoplasmas?
    I am very interested in this, but have not yet asked to be tested since I am allergic to most antibiotics, including doxycycline.
    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Klutzo
  3. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    I was thinking the same things.... I think mycoplasmas must be opportunistic as well.....

    I am more and more swayed into believing that we all show signs and symptoms of heavy metal poisioning...causing immune dysregulation and neurological damage.

    Genetically speaking...I think we are more susceptible to the effects of heavy metals than the normal population.......I think the guidelines set by the government for acceptable levels is too high for some of us.......I know they just released a statement saying that mercury levels in children given vaccines with Thimerosal in them were within guidelines.....but I still believe there are some more genetically predisposed. And guidelines are always poised to change if a problem is identified.

    I think the government knows this and that is why they have removed Thimerasol and gave protection to the vaccine makers.

    Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of studies on the effects of mercury on humans...(No volunteers).....but in mice..mercury can induce autoimmune diseases in the TYPE that are genetically predisposed.

    Over the years our industrial, pharmaceutical and environment exposure to heavy metals has increased.

    After hours of research ... especially on the effects of low dose chronic, heavy metal exposure.....I can see how over the years systemic damage can occur...neurologically, hormonally and immunilogically......
    causing all of our symptoms and opportunistic infections.

    They have identified the genetic code of susceptibility in mice.....I am hoping for that same genetic study to be conducted in CFS/FM GWS ect......

    The vaccine connection is important I think...Because,I also feel that stray viruses as well as mercury in vaccines is a combination with devastating effects for some....
    Depending on the contamination depends on the illness aquired.

    I think vaccines given in childhood contained stray monkey viruses...and other contaminations..and over the years..as our immune systems become compromised from environmental toxins
    the illnesses take over.. I believe this is true with AIDS....

    Although it is harder to connect CFS/FM to vaccines...the connection to GWS and AIDS is obviously related to vaccinations... since we have similar illnesses..it makes sense that vaccines could have contributed our illnesses.

    I have only found one thing that can cause multi-systemic damage.. only one thing that can manage to affect every system in our bodies without detection......and that is chronic low dose heavy metal exposure..... Now add some variants of monkey viruses and mycoplasmas and you have several receipies for multiple disorders and diseases.....

    My theory .......what do you think?...........DJ
  4. JP

    JP New Member

    Hi...here is an interesting abstract from a mycoplasmas study...as you can see, it is a few years old and N=100 for both CFS and healthy participants is a fairly small population.

    Take care, Jan


    Molecular and Cellular Probes (1998) 12, 301-308
    Article No. II980186
    Multiplex PCR for the detection of Mycoplasma fermentans,
    M. hominis and M. penetrans in cell cultures and blood
    samples of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome

    P.C. Choppa,1 A. Vojdani,1,2* C. Tagle,1 R. Andrin1 and L. Magtoto1

    1Immunosciences Lab Incorporated Beverly Hills, CA, USA and
    2Department of Medicine, Drew University School of Medicine and Science
    Los Angeles, CA, USA

    (Received 7 January 1998, Accepted 2 June 1998)

    A multiplex polymerase chain reaction (PCR) was initially developed to detect the presence of mycoplasma genus DNA sequences in cell cultures and to differentiate between three human pathogenic mycoplasma species simultaneously. The assay in turn, proved to be a useful tool for the detection of mycoplasma infection in human DNA samples. One set of oligonucleotide primers which are specific for a highly conserved region among all members of the genus mycoplasma along with three other primer sets which are specific for Mycoplasma fermentans, Mycoplasma hominis and Mycoplasma penetrans species were used in this assay. The sensitivity of detection was determined by infecting peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) of healthy individuals with known bacterial copy numbers from each species, extracting the DNA, and subjecting 1 ug of DNA from each sample to 40 cycles of amplification. By using agarose gel electrophoresis the detection level was determined to be 7, 7, 9 and 15 mycoplasma cells per ug of human genomic DNA for M. genus, M. fermentans, M. hominis and M. penetrans, respectively. The assay was applied to DNA extracted from the PBMCs of individuals suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) (n=100) as determined by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) criteria, and compared to healthy individuals (n=100). The percentage of M. genus infection was found to be 52% in CFS patients and only 15% in healthy individuals. Mycoplasma fermentans, M. hominis and M. penetrans were detected in 32, 9 and 6% of the CFS patients while they were detected in 8, 3 and 2% of the healthy control subjects, respectively. This assay provides a rapid and cost efficient procedure to screen either cell cultures or clinical samples for the presence of three potentially pathogenic species of mycoplasma with a high level of sensitivity and specificity.

  5. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    DJ - I have no opinion based on research about heavy metal posioning. This is one area I have not done extensive research in, just because my gut feeling tells me it is not a factor in my own case, despite the fact that I grind my teeth and have 5 amalgam fillings in my mouth. I did discuss removing them with my dentist, but the cost was prohibitive. I know a couple folks who had theirs removed and had zero improvement, so I am waiting to see more. What sort of test can a doctor do to see if a person has heavy metal exposure? Do regular docs do this, or would I have to go natural and pay for it myself? I came down with FMS very fast, like someone clicking a switch, so I find it hard to swallow that a slow build-up of mercury,etc. could be the cause for me. One day I was working 60 hrs. per week and running every night, the next my extremeties were tingling, my spine hurt and I could hardly walk. Have you had testing done, and what therapy have you had? Chelation? Mucho bucks!

    JP - thank you for this info. This answered my question, but for CFS, not FMS. I do not believe they are the same, but the jury is still out on it. I will ask my doctor about the PCR test though, based on this info you've provided. She will probably say "no", but I'll give it a try.

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Klutzo
  6. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The number of infected individuals at large is much less, I believe less than 10 percent of the population. I would have to go back and re-read the material to be exact. In various studies, it has been shown that people with CFS and/or FMS test between 50 and 70 percent positive for mycoplasma infection.

    Love, Mikie
  7. dojomo

    dojomo New Member


    I think that stress has a key role in initiating this illness...but I would rationalize that by saying.... over time of chronic exposure...the nervous system and brain are damaged...and responses to stressful events become dysfunctional. A HUGE stressful event could cause chaos...

    Also...we aren't really very sure how much mercury we are exposed to. It is in industrial emmissions, food, pesticides, cosmetics, eye solutions, vaccines, medical and industrial waste... so image the acculative effect depending on lifestyles.
    Which brings me to the connection with medical professionals...a lot of mercury exposure at work...seems unavoidable in a hospital.

    Of course this is my "NEW" developing theory..LOL!!.....(for this month..) but I ...like some of us others, feel compelled to look for answers ...
    Keeps my mind off the pain....... Thanks for the interesting thread.....DJ



    Also I want to add...if your search Thimerosal....you will notice that over ther last 4 years...thimerosal is quietly beng removed from many things...and not making any press...

    Ingredient of Many Vaccines
    In a rule effective 22 October 1998, published in the Federal Register 63(77): 19799-19802, 22 April 1998, the FDA has banned the use of mercury and 15 of its compounds, which include Thimerosal and Mercurochrome, saying that "safety and effectiveness have not been established for the ingredients ... manufacturers have not submitted the necessary data". Thimerosal is used widely as an adjutant (additive) in the vaccine industry. On top of that, it has been widely known for some time that Thimerosal ( used by the vaccine industry as a mercury "disinfectant/preservative") can result in brain injury and autoimmune disease.[This Message was Edited on 12/08/2002]
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    That there is a genetic predisposition to our illnesses due to the fact that so many more women than men suffer from immune and autoimmune illnesses and because our illnesses seem to run in families.

    So many of us can trace symptoms way back into childhood before the major triggering event brought on our illnesses full blown. I believe there is a connection among many illnesses and conditions and that two people with the same diagnosis may have their illness manifest in different ways.

    These are only my opinions based on what I have read in books, medical articles and papers, and here on the board. I also believe an infection can be the triggering event in a person or it can also be an opportunistic infection in a person already immune compromised.

    Love, Mikie
  9. marcus1243

    marcus1243 New Member

    I'm fairly new to this idea/subject, but I was wondering if all of you who have been treated for mycoplasma have had the same treatment regime? Is it dx'd thru antibody screening like other infectious diseases?

    Thanks!
    --Marcus
  10. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    No,I'm not a clone of John Edward!! But, I wish I had his money) I just expect to see this question after reading Jelly's post.....

    What is a "Herx"?

    A Herxheimer reaction is when you have rapid die-off of an organism due to treatment, in this case with antibiotics, but it could be anything. So many organisms die-off so fast that your body can't clear them fast enough, and their rotting corpses poison your system,making you feel as if you have the flu. How's that for a graphic description! Some Herxheimer effect is good, as it shows the treatment is working, but too much is unnecessary suffering, so the treatment is usually backed off a bit. This may sound strange, but it's not. When you get the flu, for example, it is not the flu bug that causes your symptoms, but the die-off of all the immune soldiers that are fighting the flu bug, and dying valiently in the effort. Some researchers think the die-off of cytokines (a type of immune soldier) may be partly responsible for FMS pain.

    Jelly - Do you know if Olive Leaf is considered an adequate treatment for mycoplasma without additional antibotics? I took maximum doses of Olive Leaf for months on the advice of my Naturopath, because she said it would kill viruses and she felt FMS was virally caused. I'm asking because the Olive Leaf had no side-effects, and I am allergic to all of the Tetracycline family of antibiotics, which includes doxycycline. Thanks for the info on this.

    Klutzo
  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    A doctor recently suggested that I might be able to take a tiny dose of Klonopin without having my breathing stop, so maybe it would work with antibiotics too. I am not thrilled about taking the chance though, in either case. I would want to have a positive test for mycoplasma first, so talking a doctor into doing that PCR test is job #1. I am so tired of arguing with docs. I don't even want to go to them at all. The number one reason that I keep trying to get off medications, is so I won't have to go to doctors any more. I'm plum worn out.
    Klutzo

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