NAET believers: Long but please read this and reply..v. unsettled

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by shelbo, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. shelbo

    shelbo New Member

    I would really, really appreciate it if some of you NAET recipients could read this article, which I found on the net. It is very disparaging. I am about to start treatments this Tuesday at great financial cost and this has article has REALLY unsettled me.

    It is written by an M.D. (so he is a qualified doctor) who makes mincemeat out of some of Nambudripad's claims. He says some of her claims regarding her own medical history are verging on the impossible; it's all there in the article. There is also some negative info on Bioset. He cites one woman who is suing a doctor who used NAET on her.

    PLEASE, PLEASE READ and get back to me...I am worried!

    It is below and it is LONG but I would really appreciate some NAET patients reading it and getting back to me soon as my appt is Tuesday. Starting to get disheartened..this guy criticising it is a real doctor and he tears it to bit. He says Nambudripad's own story in itself is full of medical impossibilties. I have paragraphed it to make it easier to read. TIA Shelbo

    Nambudripad's Allergy
    Elimination Technique (NAET)

    Stephen Barrett, M.D.

    NAET is a bizarre system of diagnosis and treatment based on the notion that allergies are caused by "energy blockage" that can be diagnosed with muscle-testing and permanently cured with acupressure and/or acupuncture treatments. Its developer, Devi S. Nambudripad, DC, LAc, RN, PhD, is described on her Web site as an acupuncturist, chiropractor, kinesiologist, and registered nurse who practices in Buena Park, California. In October 2002, the site's "Doctor Locator" database listed 803 NAET practitioners in the United States and 51 in Canada, most of whom are chiropractors or acupuncturists. (In 1999, the list contained 776 names for the United States).

    Nambudripad also runs Nambutripad's Allergy Research Foundation (N.A.R.F), which sends members a bimonthly newsletter for an annual subscription fee of $36.

    Dubious History
    In her book, Say Goodbye to Illness, Nambudripad states that she "suffered from childhood from a multitude of health problems." These included severe infantile eczema until age seven or eight and arthritis beginning at about the age of eight. As a young adult, she suffered from bronchitis, pneumonia, insomnia, clinical depression, sinusitis, and frequent migraine headaches. During this period, she said, she tried many medicines, changed doctors, and consulted nutritionists, but:

    All the medicines, vitamins and herbs made me sicker, and the good nutrition made me worse. I was nauseated all the time, Every inch of my body ached. I lived on aspirin, taking almost 30 aspirin a day to keep me going [1:xi].

    During her chiropractic training, acupressure administered by a guest speaker helped her feel better and later advised her to eat nothing but broccoli and white rice. Then:

    After a week's restricted diet, I tried eating some other foods. My previous complaints slowly began to conquer me. I went on eating a white rice and broccoli diet. This time, I ate this food for three and a half years. Once in a while, I might try a bite of other foods, but my arthritic symptoms would return. I could not eat salads, fruits or vegetables, because I was very allergic to vitamin C. I could not eat whole grain products because they contained B complex. I could not eat fruits, honey, or any products made from sugars. These made me extremely tired, because I was very allergic to sugar. I could not drink or eat milk or milk products, because I was very allergic to calcium. I was highly allergic to fish groups, because I was allergic vitamin A. I was allergic to egg products, because eggs gave me skin problems.

    I was allergic to all types of beans, including soybeans, they gave me severe joint pains. Spices gave me arthritis of all the small joints. Almost all the fabrics, except silk, gave me itching, joint pain, and extreme tiredness. My teacher at the acupuncture college confirmed my doubts. I was just simply allergic to everything under the sun, including the sun by radiation. [1:xiii-xiv]

    After "eating rice and broccoli for three and a half years," she suddenly felt better after an incident in which she had given herself acupuncture while in contact with some carrots. She then ate some carrots and found she was no longer allergic. She then reasoned that the carrots had been present in her electromagnetic field and that:

    During the acupuncture treatment, my body probably became a powerful charger and was strong enough to change the adverse charge of the carrot to match with my charge. This resulted in removing my carrot allergy. I tested and treated my husband and son. In a few weeks we were no longer allergic to many foods that once made us ill. . . . Later I extended this to my patients who suffered from a multitude of symptoms that arose from allergies. [1:xvi]

    I have no way to determine what Nambudripad experienced, but I can say that her story not believable.

    Taking "almost 30 aspirin a day" is likely to cause extremely severe side effects. The adult aspirin pill contains 5 grains (325 mg), so 30 would contain 9750 mg or 9.75 grams. Doses above 4 grams per day are likely to cause ringing in the ears, dizziness, increased breathing rate, and serious metabolic imbalances. High doses can also cause severe stomach upset and a tendency toward abnormal bleeding. Death has been reported from single doses of 10-30 grams [2].

    Allergies occur to proteins, not to vitamins, minerals, or sugars. It is possible to be allergic to eggs, fish, and or milk, but the claim that she was allergic to vitamins A, C and B-complex (a total of 10 out of the body's 13 vitamins!), calcium, and sugars is absurd.
    A diet consisting of rice and broccoli would contain no vitamin B12 and inadequate amounts of iron, protein, and several other nutrients. Curiously, it would be very high in vitamin C and high in vitamin A, both of which Nambudripad says she was allergic to.

    "Emotional allergies" can arise when people have unpleasant experiences connected to eating specific foods [3:23].
    Peculiar Theories
    Nambudripad describes NAET as an "innovative, completely natural method for regaining perfect health with complete and permanent freedom from allergies and diseases arising from allergies." [4] She claims that "there is hardly a human disease or condition that may not involve an allergic factor" [1:3] and that "most of the causes of common illnesses, like headache, back aches, joint pains, addiction, PMS, indigestion, cough, body aches, and many more are, in fact, undiagnosed allergies."

    Science-based allergists define allergy as a reaction of the body's immune system that take place after the body becomes sensitized to a substance (allergen), usually a protein. Allergic reactions result when allergy-causing proteins combine with antibodies to trigger the release of histamine and other chemicals that can cause skin rashes and various other symptoms. Nambudripad claims that allergens entering the body cause a clash between the "energy fields" of the allergen and the allergy sufferer. She states:

    An allergy is defined in terms of what a substance does to the energy flow in the body. Allergies are the result of energy imbalances in the body, leading to a diminished state of health in one or more organ systems.

    When contact is made with an allergen, it causes blockages in the energy pathways called meridians. Thought about in another way, it disrupts the normal flow of energy through the body's electrical circuits. This energy blockage causes interference in communication between the brain and body via the nervous system. This blocked energy flow is the first step in a chain of events which can develop into an allergic response. Allergies are the result of energy imbalances in the body, leading to a diminished state of health in one or more organ systems [4].

    Nambudripad also claims:

    A family history of cancer is significant because it may be transmitted to the child as an allergic inheritance [1:51].
    IF one is allergic to chemicals, adverse energy could penetrate into the body through skin, thus blocking the body's energy pathways [1:12].
    Imbalance leading to allergy may follow a serious accident, a major operation, a childhood disease, or an emotional shock [1:14].

    Dubious Diagnosis and Treatment
    Although Nambudripad recommends taking a standard allergy history, her principal diagnostic method is muscle-testing in which substances are placed in the patient's hand and the practitioner tests whether the arm can resist being pulled by the practitioner. Supposedly, when the arm is weak, the substance is said to cause allergy.

    "Surrogate testing" can be used to test young children or adults who are weak or incapacitated. The surrogate touches the skin of the person being tested while the practitioner tests the muscle of the surrogate. Some practitioners use an electrodiagnostic device that measures skin resistance to a small current emitted by the device [5]

    When testing is completed, the practitioner "treats specific acupuncture points on the back using strong acupressure either by hands or with a pressure device while the patient is holding the allergen in their palm, touching the sample with the pads of their fingers. All patients above the age of ten will then also receive acupressure or acupuncture needles on specific points on the front of the body. Then:

    Patients are asked to remain for 15-20 minutes in the office after the treatment. At that time they are tested again for their muscle strength with the allergen in their hand. This time, if the treatment is successful, the patient's arm should remain strong against the practitioner's pressure. The patient is then asked to wash their hands or rub them together for a minute. Patients are instructed to avoid all contact with the allergen that they were just treated for, for 25 hours.

    They are also advised to read The NAET Guidebook to find the suitable foods they can eat for the next 25 hours. During the spinal NAET treatment procedure the NAET practitioner and the patient should be alone in the room to prevent "electromagnetic interference." [6] (Nambudripad claims that a third person in the room can "steal" the treatment [3:6].) On the following visit the practitioner retests the previously treated item. If the result is satisfactory, the practitioner can treat another item. A course of 30-40 visits (once or twice per week) is commonly recommended Nambudripad also claims that NAET can be used as a preventive measure in people who are not sick [3:14].

    According to The NAET Guide Book , the need for specific supplements is determined by having the patient hold a supplement in one hand while the practitioner pulls on the other arm. According to the book, weakness indicates allergy. If the patient tests strong, more pills are added one by one until the patient's arm tests "weak." The total number of pills in the patient's hand then indicates "the total deficiency on that day in the present condition." The book claims:

    This number can be anywhere from 1-2 pills to many thousands, depending on the deficiency. For example: in certain nerve disorders, the total amount of vitamin B-complex deficiency can be as high as 20-30 thousand grams.

    If the deficiency is 1-6 pills, one may not need to take supplements. Regular balanced meals will provide the requirements.

    If the deficiency is more than 6-10 pills (or the amount equals 6-10 times recommended daily dosage (RDA), then one should supplement one pill daily. If the deficiency is calculated in many tens, hundreds or thousands, supplement the person with 4-6 times the recommended daily dosage of that particular supplement. . . .

    Supplements in mega doses are often needed for a number of months in the following cases: arthritis, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, any chronic problems related to allergy, hair loss, constipation, degenerative diseases, cancer, etc. [3:21]

    The NAET muscle-testing procedure is an offshoot of applied kinesiology, a pseudoscientific system based on the notion is that every organ dysfunction is accompanied by a specific muscle weakness. There is no scientific evidence that this is true; and test-to-test variations are due either suggestibility, muscle fatigue (from repeated testing) or variations in the test technique.

    The idea that the number of pills held in the hand can somehow be registered in a way that can influence the strength of a muscle is absurd. The idea that someone can be "deficient" by 20-30 thousand grams is even more absurd. That would be 44 to 66 pounds! Moreover, most vitamin pills contain less than a gram of their vitamin or mineral ingredients. Twenty thousand pills could not fit in the hand of the person being tested.

    Curiously, Nabudripad's Web site warns patients against "being lured into clinics by doctors promising NAET allergy elimination treatments, but they are not receiving NAET treatments." The methods she list include: (a) placing colored slides at various locations on the body, (b) lying on a special bed while holding an allergen, (c) placing their fingers into a computerized dish with flashing lights while "some mumbo-jumbo is done on them," (c) touching cetain body parts and sitting alone while thinking about the allergen or "allergic thought," (e) prescribing $400 to $500 worth of supplements, vitamins, enzymes or sublungual drops on the first visit without removing any allergies, and (f) shining a laser light on their back while they hold the allergen in their hand [6].

    Bioenergetic sensitivity and enzyme therapy (BioSET) is a NAET variation developed by Ellen Cutler, DC, who operates the BioSET Institute in Larkspur California. Proponents claim that BioSET achieves more permanent results by adding digestive enzymes and a system of "detoxifying" the body [7]. Cutler's book, The Food Allergy Cure, includes the following information:

    "BioSET uses a variety of tools drawn from acupuncture, chiropractic and kinesiology to locate and remove blockages in electromagnetic pathways that are specifically related to allergens." [8:6]
    "Virtually any symptom can be the result of a blockage caused by an allergen." [8:7]

    ""Food allergies" are tested tested by placing the test substance a glass vial containing sugars in the patient' hand and muscle-testing the opposite arm. If the person is allergic, pushing down on the outstretched arm will cause it to weaken or collapse [8:159-168].

    When the patient's "blockages" have been identified, she uses acupuncture or modified chiropractic technique to stimulate points on the patient's spine, which "tends to balance the electromagnetic fields of the body in relation to the allergen." [8:9]

    Nearly everyone suffers from "toxic overload," for which she may prescribe fasting, juicing, dietary modification, exercise, massage, periodic deep breathing, skin brushing, "detoxification baths," saunas, coffee enemas, enzyme, homeopathic products, use of a water filter, and avoidance of electromagnetic fields [8:181-209].
    Cutler has applied to trademark the name BioSET, but the U.S. Patent Office has not decided whether to approve it. Bioset® is a trademark registered to Bioset, Inc., a company in Houston, Texas, that is completely unrelated to Cutler's activities. This company, which manufactures and markets the BIOSET Process for sludge management, was founded 1995 and has objected to Cultler's trademark application.

    Cutler claims that over a thousand practitioners worldwide use BioSET [8:5], but her site does not list their names. In October 2002, Google searches brought up more than ten times as many NAET links as BioSET links. Since NAET, which has been around longer, is claimed to have fewer than 1,000, I wonder whether Cutler's number includes Nambudripad's database of NAET practitioners in addition to those affiliated with BioSET.

    In 2002, Cutler and Nambudripad acquired "MD" degrees from the University of Health Sciences - Antigua (UHSA), which offers a medical degree program that chiropractors can complete in 27 months. Students receive credit for two years of basic science courses taken at chiropractic school. UHSA's coursework consists of a 3-month preparatory course (which can be taken online) and 24 months of clinical sciences. For their clinical training, students must either find a hospital that will provide it or go to a UHSA-affiliated hospital in Ohio. (UHSA won't reveal the hospital's name until after the student enrolls and pays tuition.) USHA's program is obviously inferior to standard medical school training in the United States, and the school is not accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (the medical school accreditation agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education).

    However, its graduates who pass United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) appear to be eligible for further training and licensure in many states -- but not in California, where Nambudripad and Cutler practice.

    "Emotional NAET"
    The most bizarre form of NAET I have encountered surfaced in a recent lawsuit by a woman who, among other things, was trying to recover the cost of her treatment with Walter J. Crinnion, N.D., a semi-retired naturopath who practiced for many years near Seattle, Washington, and is now semi-retired. Crinnion also teaches "environmental medicine" at Bastyr University and wrote the chapter on that subject in the major naturopathic textbook. Documents in the case indicate that the woman had paid Crinnion $30,521 for 286 visits over a 3-year period during which he had treated her for headaches that he attributed to childhood sexual abuse and environmental toxins.

    Crinnion's services included sessions in which he held the patient's hand with one of his hands while she talked to him or while they sat quietly. During the sessions, which took place at his home, Crinnion asked himself questions while placing the third finger of his other hand over his index finger and pressing down to "test the strength" of his own second finger. In his deposition, he stated that the ability of his index finger to resist being pushed down indicated to him whether each question should be answered yes or no.

    At various times, he pressed on the woman's back to "desensitize" her to whatever substances or emotions he imagined to be the problem. He also claimed to "balance her energy" with his hands by touching her head or moving his hands through the air two to four inches from her body [9]. In my report to the defense attorney, I summarized these sessions as "two people holding hands while one pays the other to press on her back and think to himself," Crinnion called the procedure "emotional NAET." I regard it as a combination of abuse and larceny.

    Veterinary NAET
    NAET has also acquired a following among veterinarians. The leading promoters are Roger Valentine, D.V.M., and Rahmie Valentine, O.M.D., L.Ac., who operate a "holistic" pet center in Santa Monica, California. They state that "veterinary NAET NAET is an ideal diagnostic and treatment modality for all holistic veterinary practices." [8} Their Veterinary NAET Web site maintains a referral directory with about 100 names.

    The claim that allergic conditions treatable with NAET include "eosinophilic lesions, toxic chemical reactions, vaccine reactions, 'idiopathic' bowel disease, gingivitis, gastritis, cystitis, sinusitis, rhinitis, asthma, constipation, diabetes mellitus, chronic recurring infections, conjunctivitis, external otitis, dandruff, seborrheic dermatitis and pancreatitis, as well as the more commonly agreed-upon allergic conditions: over-grooming, flea allergy dermatitis, food intolerance and allergic bronchitis." [10] Instead of testing the animal, they perform "surrogate" muscle-testing in which the spine of a person touching the animal is tested:

    The NAET treatment phase in animals consists of stimulation of the spinal nerves of the surrogate. While maintaining contact with the animal and the identified allergen, acupressure is applied to specific meridian points along the spine of the surrogate. This activates all of the spinal nerves, thereby triggering the nervous system into a fresh recognition of the perceived allergen. This is an actual reprogramming of the nervous system to recognize the allergen in a new way. The allergen is no longer perceived as an irritant and "bad", but as a newly neutral substance. The body then experiences a state of balance in the presence of the allergen, and is non-reactive. In the human protocol, additional body acupuncture points are stimulated to reinforce the new identification [10].

    The Bottom Line
    NAET clashes with the concepts of anatomy, physiology, pathology, physics, and allergy accepted by the scientific community. The story of its "discovery" is highly implausible. Its core diagnostic approach -- muscle testing for "allergies" -- is senseless and is virtually certain to diagnose nonexistent problems.

    Its recommendations for dietary restrictions based on nonexistent food allergies are likely to place the patient at great risk for nutrient deficiency, and, in the case of children, at risk for social problems and the development of eating disorders. I believe that practitioners who use NAET have such poor judgment that they should not be permitted to remain licensed. If you encounter a practitioner who relies on the strategies described in this article, please ask the state attorney general to investigate.

    Nambudripad DS. Say Goodbye to Illness. Buena Park, CA: Delta Publishing Co., 1993.
    Goodman AG, Goodman LS, Gilman A. The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, 6th edition. New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., 1980, p 695.
    Nambudripad DS. The NAET Guide Book: The Companion to "Say Goodbye to Illness." Third edition. Buena Park, CA: Delta Publishing Co., 1999, p 21.
    Nambudripad DS. What is NAET? NAET Web site, accessed Oct 11, 1999.
    Cutler EW. Winning the War against Immune Disorders & Allergies. Albany, NY: Delmar Publishing, 1998.
    Nambudripad DS. An open letter to NAET patients. NAET Web site, accessed Oct 14, 1999.
    Zacherl TW. What is BioSet? Web site, accessed Oct 25, 2002.
    Cutler EW. The Food Allergy Cure. New York: Harmony Boks, 2001.
    Crinnion WJ. Deposition in Superior Court of the State of Washington (King County) Case No. 00-2-30314-9 KNT, Jan 3, 2002, pp 50-55.
    Valentine R, Valentine R. Veterinary NAET: The veterinary application of NAET; a breakthrough approach to allergy resolution. Veterinary NAET Web site, accessed Aug 10, 2000.
  2. tansy

    tansy New Member

    the NAET explanations to others since they know more about it than I do. What struck me on reading this is the term allergies and how it is used by NAET practioners has been explained in their literature. Yet Stephen Barrett, M.D. has chosen to ignore their description.

    Stephen Barret set up and runs quackbuster's which spends most of it's time attacking anything non mainstream. Whilst he has his supporters, many mainstream doctors do not support nor do they take much notice of what he says.

    I had muscle testing; due to my upper limb weakness my sister's arm was used instead whilst she had physical contact with me. She is a pharmacist so was very skeptical until she experienced this for herself.

    Energy medicine is controversial. Energy based testing should be seen as picking up what is undesirable to the body, not just allergies. NAET is said to be different in that it aims to treat the body's reactions to various agents (allergies).

    love, Tansy
  3. elsa

    elsa New Member

    Usually when I read an article that is strongly negative or strong positive on any subject, I tend to take the information with a grain of salt. Opinions too strong in one direction or the other appear bias to me. I don't dismiss what was written ... I just continue researching. I rarely let a "strong" statement/opinion be the last word in my investigations.

    I am also a believer in the thought ... "just because I can't see it or wrap my mind around it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist".

    I have looked into many things for the treatment of CFS/FM. After learning about NAET here, I did more research on the treatment on a local level.

    In my area, the initial treatment/assessment is 220.00 with each follow up session at 80.00 per. As a general rule, but not written in stone, I should expect 40-50 sessions to cure the allergies causing my CFS/FM. Suggested that the best timing of sessions should be 2-3 a week. I should expect to pay initially between 3,420.00 to
    4,220.00 in the course of my treatment.

    I had inquired about my medications while I was being treated. I didn't get a clear understanding here, but it was suggested that the less rx'es I ingest, the more true testing will occur. I should be prepared to devote 16-20 weeks for treatment that included diet and behavior modification ... and no medications.

    I needed to keep in mind that this schedule was not absolute, being that the number of sessions are based on my ability to successfully clear an allergen on the first attempt. If it wasn't successful, then I would need to be re-treated before moving on to the next allergen. This didn't sit well with me in that it left me open to having to take sessions over and over. Ready made income.

    I haven't done my usual in depth research on this technique and I am far from comfortable in advising anyone as to what to do. I have spoken with individuals that I have a high regard for about their experiences with the local NEAT practioners.

    In the treatment of fairly common allergies, they had positive things to say. However, none of them had been treated for illnesses as all encompassing as mine so they could not offer their opinion.

    I have read her website. I fully believe in an individual's energy pathways ... acupuncture and acupressure. We have all seen someone have an allergic response to something while they were holding it, or around it. All of this does not seem far fetched to me.

    I did have a few doubtful moments reading her website. I too have a hard time seeing someone survive on a diet of brocccoli and rice for 3 1/2 years and taking 30 aspirin a day.

    I have some doubts about using a surrogate. Not that I don't believe in some individual's sensitivity and ability, I just don't believe the allergen/energy is going to work with a middleman. It comes down to a trust issue for me. I would really be laying it out there with a surrogate. That sort of thing does not come easily to me.

    I tried to get a black and white answer of the cost of the surrogate if I should need one. Who pays her? Is she an employee of the clinic or would her wage come from me. If so what would the cost of my sessions be then. The answer I recieved at the time was that "it varies".

    This is not the best treatment for me.

    I am currently uncomfortable with the phrase "cure the allergens that cause my CFS/FM". That is a strong statement that I cannot credit to any healthcare field, not just NAET. Can't cure anything unless there is a proven cause. That is not the case with CFS/FM.

    I have a problem with the matter of successful treatment. The practioner that I consulted with said that NAET can be 100% successful, but if I don't obtain 100% resolution then the responsibility of the failure falls on me.

    She stated that it would be my "emotional energy blockage" and not her ability or NAET itself that was prohibiting me from being cured.

    That statement absolved her of any professional responsibility in my treatment.It also insured continued income from me for re-treats. I wanted to dismiss this as a one practioner's creed, but I did see Ralph respond in this same manner. I can't agree with this.

    At this point in my inquiry into NAET, I feel there is some positive aspects to the concept, but I have some doubts in it's application.

    I wish I could have been more helpful. Perhaps you could still keep your upcoming appointment in a consultation capacity vs getting started on the actual treatments. Get to know the practioner. Ask them questions and then go with your instincts.

    You are making a large financial purchase. If you are comfortable after your consult then go for it. If you have any doubts then hold off.

    In my opinion, you have to believe and have faith in what you are trying to accomplish ... regardless of what technique is being approached. Trust in yourself and your comfort level and everything should work out for you.

    Take care,


    [This Message was Edited on 10/03/2005]
  4. pam_d

    pam_d New Member Tansy mentioned, he runs the quackbusters internet site....he disparages virtually every naturopathic treatment or supplement ever used, that's his business....can't prove he's paid by the big drug companies, but wouldn't be surprised. I should do further research on that. I put absolutely NO faith in anything this guy says....just as I wouldn't embrace absolutely ANY farfetched natural idea without checking it out first.

    I believe in NAET because it's absolutely stopped my hayfever & nasal allergies in their tracks. But I can't decide for you, it is a commitment of time and money, to be sure.

    But one thing I will say....don't let a zealot like Stephen Barrett have any influence over your opinion. Please do a search on HIM....

    Good luck whatever you decide,
  5. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    ...not about the article, but the cost. Elsa mentioned costs in her area for treatment. I'm paying half that for my treatments, and my initial visit was less than one-third of her quoted cost. This just gives you an idea of the huge variation in costs, a lot depends on where you live. I'm in Kansas, but not rural, I'm in a very large city. My doctor and his nurse are both listed on the NAET site of official practitioners & have excellent training and years in the business. My doctor has also spent years working hand in hand with mainstream oncologists at a large hospital in Kansas City. (I'm not sure these well-respected cancer specialists would agree with Stephen Barrett's rants...)

    Anyway, just wanted to say costs can vary widely, many NAET practitioners really strive to keep costs reasonable since insurance seldom covers it.

  6. acesk

    acesk New Member

    I have tried lots of things - had a acupuncturist that did kinesiolgy (hold a little of the substance in your hand and they try to push down your hand and see if it goes down or not for "muscle weakness") and went for several months for treatments on what made me weak. Then I took a supplement or an acupunture treatment. It never did work for my fm or my lack of energy or my pain.

    Sorry, but I spent a lot of money and no help whatsoever. Another person I tried - a homeopath - said that the kinesiolgy was a lot of bunk. The homeopath helped me allergies but not my energy or my pain.

    Sue in Florida
  7. rockgor

    rockgor Well-Known Member

    from the library. Will have to read it and see if it sounds plausible.

    On the one hand I have been ill for about 25 years and will try just about anything. ON the other, there are lots of people eager to take our money w/o really providing anything of value.

    It's a constant struggle, isn't it?
  8. Sbilek

    Sbilek New Member


    I read that same article by Barrett four years ago, after I had started my treatments, and it "unsettled" me at the time, too, but since have become enlightened as to Dr. Barrett's qualifications, or lack thereof, would be more appropriate.

    Dr. Barrett, MD, is actually a de-licensed psychiatrist whose only employment was part time at some correctional facility, and I think he even lost that employment.

    He thus became hooked up with Quackwatchers and was working out of the basement of his home. Last I heard, even Quackwatchers wasn't associating with him anymore, they had replaced him with someone of "equal" qualifications. Probably too much truth of his real qualifications had leaked out.

    You have to remember that Quackwatchers is supposedly funded by Big Pharma, their way of putting the little mom and pop shops out of business as they are well known for bringing frivolous lawsuits against little herb stores or naturopathic docs, etc. Anyone familiar with lawsuits knows that it takes big bucks to start and take these to court, and I hardly think a delicensed psychiatrist working out of his basement has the funds for this.

    Most of Quackwatchers cases have been thrown out of court and many judges have chastised the frivolousness of these suits.

    So don't let that article stop you from trying NAET. Believe me when I tell you that if everyone in this country underwent NAET treatments, Big Pharma would be put out of business.

  9. jaltair

    jaltair New Member

    Elso mentioned that with the Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Technique (NAET), practitioners believe that if a person doesn't get well, the person's "emotional energy blockage" was prohibiting the person from being cured. I've heard other NAET practitioners espouse this idea. To me, it's akin to some of the Christian healers who espouse that if a person or child isn't healed, then it's the lack of faith that causes it. This really distresses me! I've known many really fine people who were really spiritually defeated because of this concept. The same thing could happen to those who do the NAET and do not get well.

    To me, people who practice alternative therapies or "healing arts" are "fake" or "false" practitioners if they preach or espouse such ideas.

    The point that "Stormseye" makes when she states, "Sometimes, when the "normal" doesn't work, you have to take a chance on something and hope for the best." The decision to "take a chance on something and hope for the best" reminds me of some unethical practices that an oncologist was into. The medical doctor would put people through the mill until they nearly died or did die all for the sake of a cure for incurable cancer. After treatment for many months or sometimes years, the person would die. The doctor held title on the real property of the person.

    The cost of NAET treatments is very expensive, just as was the chemotherapy for the people that I knew; they spent their life savings on the chemotherapy only for hope.

    Stephen Barrett, M.D., is also correct when he states that a person can't be allergic to vitamins. Vitamins are organic substances that combine with proteins in the human body to form enzymes. Vitamins are NOT proteins. A person cannot be allergic to something that isn't a protein. Allergies are not the "body's reactions to various agents", the agents have to be specific protein so that an immune response will happen. In this instance, I feel that the concept espoused by those who practice NAET is flawed.

    Stephen Barrett is an intelligent person who is an MD with a specialty in psychiatry. He is very aware of how people can be conned, and that's why Quackwatch was formed. It's a non-profit that runs on only 7,000 per year. There is NO gain to the program.

    You have to have "balanced reasoning" when approaching the idea of treatment for things as vague as CFS or FMS. Again, until we know the cause of each individual's health problems that gives them a diagnosis of FMS or CFS, there can be no "tailored" treatment; only individual treatment that will relieve symptoms.

    Practitioners who espouse a cure for FMS or CFS or even effective treatment should all be taken with a "grain of salt."

    Warm wishes, Jeannette
  10. jaltair

    jaltair New Member

    Shelbo, I don't know what Sbilek has been "smokin", but what she wrote is totally erroneous. Dr. Barrett's qualifications are outstanding. He isn't a "de-licensed" psychiatrist and he worked for a number of facilities. The last place that he worked he was employed as the Medical Director at NewVitae Partial Hospitalization Program until retirement in March 1991. He is also still at Quackwatchers and in fact heads it.

    Quackwatch, as I stated in the previous response operates using volunteers, there are no paid staff. The whole thing runs on $7,000 per year. You can go to Quackwatch and check it out. I wish that you would.

    The main thing to realize is that there are many people who "bash" Quackwatch and Dr. Barrett due to the work that he has done. He is an advocate for the consumer on lots of issues that he feels are fraudulent.

    I'm sorry that you are getting so many conflicting pieces of advice. Please keep an open mind all the way around. I really try to, but sometimes it's hard when I read some of the posts on this Board.

    Warm wishes, Jeannette
  11. jaltair

    jaltair New Member

    I didn't imply that you were unethical but that those who prey on people looking for something outside what's proven and acceptable are unethical. I'm sorry that you took what I stated the wrong way.

    You and I are not so different; I've also looked at alternative methods to deal with these DD's. I do go to a chiropractor and have had good results with the adjustments for my osteoarthritis in my spine. I also go for massage, and I feel that is something real that has helped my muscles, and my comfort level tremendously.

    I'm not against methods that are proven to help. Just against practitioners that tell people that if something doesn't work on them, it's the persons own fault.
  12. rockgor

    rockgor Well-Known Member

    FAITH HEALING, my minister says he will not preach same. Even if people are not explicitly told, there is an implication that "You didn't get well because your faith is imperfect. God is rejecting you."

    He says if God wants someone to have a miraculous cure that science cannot explain, God can do it w/o an intermediary (usually one who wants money).

    (As Dave Barry pointed out, all TV evangelists have the same message: God loves you. Send me money.)
  13. goldenrod

    goldenrod New Member

    not everything works for everyone and it did nothing for me. I spent over a 1000 for treatments and it did not help me whatsoever, my allergies are far worse now then they have ever been but still I know poeple who swear by it so each to their own.
    good luck
  14. Leenerbups

    Leenerbups New Member

    I hate that site. They trash alternative and holistic therapies that have helped millions of people, including myself.
  15. shelbo

    shelbo New Member

    Thank you for all your very helpful comments...I really appreciate them..

    For a/o interested I just posted my feelings about my first visit..which like your replies, is very mixed...

    Thanks again, Love Shelbo
  16. Sbilek

    Sbilek New Member


    I'm sure you can sift through all the pros and cons and come to an intelligent decision yourself.

    Re Jaltairs comment of what I've been smokin, haven't been smokin anything, you can check out the illustrious Dr. Barrett's qualifications for yourself on the web, plenty of info, you might start with the quackpotwatch site first.

    You know, I can vividly remember back in 2001, after I had such tremendous improvements in my health after the NAET, I was shouting it to the top of the world, and the fibro site I was on at that time, boy, you talk about being pounced on by all the skeptics, I sure was. I've since come to the conclusion that there are three types of people, those that are totally open to this type of healing modality, those that fall into the skeptical category, I believe that's where I fell into, and you do, too, and the last group, those that are just so close minded about anything different, it doesn't matter what you say or do or how many facts and figures are presented, they just won't be swayed, and that's okay.

    But, Shelbo, one only has to visit the thread that's been circulated many times here on this board, "If you are Getting Well, Sign this Thread," to realize that the only way you are ever going to get well is by stepping out of the box of traditional medicine.

    The clinic where I went for treatment, OsteoMed II in Strongsville, Ohio, they've been doing NAET for over ten years, probably over 15 years. They have patients coming from all over the country and even foreign countries. They have a three physician staff, two physician's assistants, two acupuncturists, and 10 - 12 support staff, and are looking for another physician right now as they are so busy.

    Guess they must be doing something right or there are just a ton of people that just love to throw their money away, I guess.

    There is also a veterinarian in Canton, Ohio that does NAET on animals, and her practice is so successful, you can't even get in to see her, she is so booked, and gets phenomenal good results with treating animals with NAET.

    So the skeptics can say all they want, I know what my symptoms were before NAET, and I know how I felt after the treatments, and I can say without a doubt that NAET saved my life.

  17. shelbo

    shelbo New Member

    Your post was very encouraging!! I do believe NAET can work, I just don't know whether this is the right practitioner for me...hmm!

    Love Shelbo
  18. elsa

    elsa New Member

    I'm sorry you feel so angry about this. I'm also very, very glad you are feeling better. In the scheme of things that's really all that matters right?

    As a side note ... I didn't sign the "Getting Well.., Sign This Thread" thread because I'm lazy. After so many responses hit a thread I genernally stay away from it because ... like I said .. I'm lazy and it takes a long time to get to the end.

    Anyway ... Hon, I am in early remission. You said all it takes is reading that thread to see that the ones getting well are the "ones stepping out of the box of traditional medicine". Not true.

    Rx medicines to treat symptoms while I recover, rx sleep medication to treat my weird sleep disorder, physician diagnosed and treated HPA axis with bio-identical compounded hormones, physician detected and treatment of viruses with rx anti-virals.

    Then, at direction of my physician ... supplement regime to treat notoriuosly off nutrients in CFS/FM patients. And then physician directed appt with ND for amino acid therapy and non-rx anti-viral treatment and immune system boosters.

    I applaud anything that helps someone get well. I don't care what it is. The bottom line is that they are getting well.

    People who say only traditional medicine will help are no different then people who say only non-traditional methods will help. Those statements are all inclusive and too aggressive. And not correct. What is correct is what helped INDIVIDUALS .. regardless of what that method was/is. All that matters is what helps you to get better.

    I don't want to feel bad or hide my head because I mostly used traditional methods to reach remission. I try real hard to treat others in kind.

    Take care,


    [This Message was Edited on 10/05/2005]
  19. elsa

    elsa New Member

    Bump ..........
  20. Sbilek

    Sbilek New Member

    Elsa, I'm sorry if you got the impression that my post was angry, it certainly wasn't written in that light, and I didn't feel angry at all when I was writing it.

    Now, four years ago when I was "pounced" on by all the skeptics, I think I probably got a little defensive, but I've come a long way since then.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even about the illustrious Dr. Barrett.

    Sounds to me like you've stepped out of the box quite a bit with your treatments, and I wouldn't classify them as traditional at all, but integrative medicine, which is what the docs at OsteoMed practice.

    My traditional doc wouldn't even think about half of the treatments you've had. So again, I still stand by my opinion, that the only way any of us are going to achieve any real success in healing or feeling better is by stepping out of the box.

    And, please, consider posting on the Thread, "If you're getting better, please sign this thread."

    You know, Elsa, it's only by people standing together and helping out one another, with all the pros and the cons of all the treatments, the good and the bad, what works for one and what doesn't work for another, and any insight into anything stepping out of the box may be a little push for someone else to at least try something different in the hopes of achieving any little tidbit of lessening of pains or symptoms they can achieve.

    Peace and good health to you.


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