need an adrenal expert

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by dixiegal, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. dixiegal

    dixiegal New Member

    HI everyone
    I have fibro and cfids and all the symptoms of hypothyroid but over a 24 year period all my tests for thyroids come back normal. Iv been reading a book that taks about adrenal problems and I could have wrote it myself!

    I searched on this board and see where many say B vitamins are good for it I cant take Bs, everytime I have tried B complexes they send me into a crash so bad, I get so tied I can get out of bed, its the kind of tired that stops you in your tracks.

    Over the years Iv tried to find info on other people that cant handle Bs and have never found any. Now Im wondering if Bs are good for adrenals and they make me feel so sick maybe Im looking in the wrong direction once again. Anyone else with this problem? TIA
  2. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    and take hydrocortisone in physiological dosages, also adrenal glandulars. Since i have been getting glutathione iv's, my adrenals are a bit better and i am not so dependent on the hydrocortisone (don't crash before the next dosage).

    The B problems are interesting. Maybe you could read some of the posts by doing a search about NAET or Bioset allergy treatment. I think B vitamins are one of the things they test for and treat by an acupuncture like treatment. Blessings to you. Jen102
  3. dixiegal

    dixiegal New Member

    thanks Ill do search.
  4. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    I take higher doses of Vitamin C and use sea salt. But I am looking for info too.

    Certainly adrenal fatgiue sounds a lot like CFS. I think it is one piece of the puzzle. I usually can tell my adrenals are needing attention when my stools are greyish and I get that fuzzy whiteness on my tongue for starters.

    By the way, my tests for Thyroid came back normal too. Body temperature testing revealed things were not. I am on T3 and it has been helpful.
  5. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    Help, need adrenal advice!
  6. bettydroop

    bettydroop New Member

    I wa sJUST telling the dr about this when I went to my appt at FFC.
    I dont know if youare the same but what I experience when I take them especially B12, I feel weird. I cant describe it but I feel stange. Like my head is somewhere else and a totally fog. Its so weird. It has happened every time so I odnt try that anymore. MY dr DIDN T discount me...she jsut said she had never heard of that before. HMMM

    What do YOU feel like???
  7. jfrustrated

    jfrustrated New Member

    I have cfs and fm and my blood thyroid tests were normal. Then one of my docs. did SALIVA tests for cortisol levels - 4 measurement over a 24 hour period and the results showed adrenal insufficiency. What sort of tests did you have? The saliva ones give the more accurate results.

    Unfortunately, I am still having problems finding the best way - any way - to treat low adrenal function that works for me. Have had bad experiences with hydorcortisone, but have just started extracts to see how they do.

    If you decide to take thyroid medication, whatever you do, do NOT start the thyroid med. if your adrenal function is low. You can make yourself worse.

    I have had very sorts of vit b treatment and tablets, including self-injecting low doses of B12 over a month. I have not had any bad effects - but I cannot say that any of the vit b treatments helped me either.

    You might like to check out Dr. WILSON and adrenals on the web to see about vit b. He has done a lot of work in this area and his stuff is very readable. Good Luck
  8. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    I can’t recall the source but there was mention that if thyroid functioning was boosted it would tax the adrenals.

    The test is Basal Body Temperature. A search on about.com will bring up information.

    I will investigate the saliva test for the cortisol. My eastern doctor and a live blood test indicated that my adrenals needed support so that is why I am investigating adrenal supports.

    Please keep us posted on how your new trials goes with the extracts. I think I am going to start with the adrenal supplement with licorice first. If needed, I will try the extracts.


  9. dancingstar

    dancingstar New Member

    My adrenals are not working well either. I don't have a problem with b vitamins, though. Dr. Holtorf (L.A. FFC) is supplementing several hormones, including thyroid, cortisol, pregnenolone & DHEA, and others. I feel best every time I take their B-12 cocktail shot and am thinking of taking some home with me to use weekly.

    Not sure at all about your B vitamin problem. For a long time I could not take B vitamins cause they just make me sick. Now I don't ingest them separately. Have you tried taking them as part of "EmergenC"?

    Also, you say that your thyroid is normal. Some doctors say that thyroid is normal, while others test the same blood and read the results completely differently.

    I feel safest with Dr. Holtorf cause he specializes in this stuff. I wish you were able to see a specialist, Dixie.

    Best of luck with this!
  10. elsa

    elsa New Member

    DHEA and Cortiol are both produced by the adrenal gland. Blood tests for both DHEA-S and Cortisol would be a good start.

    If your adrenal gland is in bad shape, both hormone levels would be showing low and would need addressing.

    A homocysteine, cardiovascular blood test can give an indication of how your b-vitmins are doing. If the number is great ( less then 10.4 ... mine 6. ) then your b vitamins are going a good job. You might have an absorption problem ... I inject B12 and BComplex ... works well for me.

    You could also have your sodium/potassium levels checked ... this is often included in a comprehensive metabolic panel blood test.

    For thyroid tests ... we are often thyroid resistant which many traditional MD's are not very good at detecting and treating.

    The tests needed to indicate this are Free T3, Free T4 and reverse T3 ... It is really important to have an CFS/FMS doctor help you with this as it is more of a clinical treatment then lab tests only treatment. It can make a big difference in how you feel.

    I have adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism. I started treatment for both at the same time. I agree that T3 without cortisol initially is not a great idea but my take is a little different.

    Whenever I have taken my T3 without a later cortisol dose, my T3 does not feel as effective. The whole picture just doesn't work right. As soon as both are back working together, I feel like I am back, heading in the right direction again.

    20mgs cortisol is a low enough dose as not to entice your adrenal gland to stop doing for itself. Not everyone takes that dose ... Mine currently is 10mgs AM ...

    I think we are going to add 10mgs during the afternoon though ... I have started an afternoon T3 dose, will need the second cortisol dose to keep "balance".

    Since hormones work on a loop system, I feel it's best to treat both imbalances at the same time ... That way they produce a good feedback .... working togther instead of off kilter.

    I have read some feel one should treat the adreanal gland alone first before moving on. For me, but treating DHEA-S, Cortisol and T3 together (along with others) has produced a good balanced response in me .... seems things are trying to work more in-tandem instead of listing from side to side.

    Elsa


    [This Message was Edited on 02/09/2006]
  11. Jen102

    Jen102 New Member

    that thyroid meds shouldn't be taken at the same time as iron or calcium as they thyroid meds won't be as effective. It gets to be a juggling act, but you can find ways to fit it in. Jen102
  12. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    And I can't stress great enough. I've had SAD for a few decades, taht caused major depression every darn winter, the depression being worse than FM/MCS combined. An a.d. helped a fair bit for maybe 5 yrs, but never completely, and was really loosing effect last few years.

    W/ a combo of a light therapy lamp and the glandular combo, which is mainly adrenal/liver, w/ smaller doses of thyroid, spleen, etc. the depression is completely gone. I'd about given up, I'm just esctatic, this is so huge for me, since I can handle pain, fatigue and the rest if only I have my marbles and morale. I'm even getting the ability to drive back and so many other things.

    I also take vit. B5, pantothenic acid, which I also started a thread on. I've heard of others that are sensitive to B complexes, but you may be alright w/ a multi and will probably be alright w/ a high quality Flora p.a. supp. There have been others that can take an isolated B vit, but not the complexes. B5 is adrenal fuel, so it's another big step in nourishing the adrenals, it's also essential for muscle nerve conduction, so can be invaluable to our FM/CFS symptom relief.



    Jeanne
  13. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp


    This is very detailed and a great diagnostic tool for making sense of your myriad symptoms. It helps you figure out if you are more hypothyroid, low adrenal, or have a mixed thyroid/adrenal problem.



    Jeanne
  14. leomonkey

    leomonkey Member

    What glandual combo do you use?
  15. dancingstar

    dancingstar New Member

    I noticed that you first take your thyroid, and later take the cortisol rather than taking them together. Sometimes I feel like my thyroid isn't really working, and I wondered how you knew to wait before adding the cortisol in to the mix.

    Lately, I've been taking a small anount of my thyroid in the afternoon, when I'm fading badly, which does seem to work. I'll ask my doctor about it when I see him next.

    I have noticed, though, that the cortisol helps to keep me from having those feelings of nearly passing out when my blood sugar drops.

    I know that the whole system is very complicated and that all of these hormones are inter-related.
  16. Hope4Sofia

    Hope4Sofia New Member

    This makes a lot of sense to me. I seem to fit the picture for adrenal problems. My doc has had me taking my temp all week to check for thyroid issues. Adrenal issues fit me more.

    sofis
  17. dancingstar

    dancingstar New Member

    The two problems aren't mutually exclusive. A lot of people with CFS/FM have both adrenal insufficiency and are also hypothyroid.
  18. dancingstar

    dancingstar New Member

    What an interesting chart! Thank you for posting it. Guess I really am as "mixed" as one can be.

    They mention on that site about adrenal types being intuitive. How very strange. I've been that way since my early 20s, but it's gotten worse in the last few years.
  19. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    On adrenal fatigue is; 'Adrenal Fatigue (The 21st Century Stress Syndrome)' by James L. Wilson, N.D.,D.C., Ph.D.

    It was recommended to me awhile back, and highly recommended but I have not read it yet, but came from a good source.

    HOpe this helps.


    Shalom, Shirl
  20. elsa

    elsa New Member

    I had read so much starting with Dr. Wilson's site on low thyroid that it was drilled into my head to take T3 on it's own, without anything competing with it for absorption.

    Also, I so bad wanted to feel better with it's effects that I didn't dare take anything else with it!

    Since cortisol and T3 are closely linked it was logical to me to add it next, after T3 .... the directions on the label has the time listed for ingestion near the same time as on the T3's ....

    Lastly, I can tell when the two aren't working together ... ie, I messed up on timimg somehow. It's hard to describe the feeling but it does feel "right" .... and it doesn't give me that "close to being normal" feeling like when the two are working togther.

    Alot of hypothyroid people find they had to have an afternoon dose to round things out. I am certainly one of them .... 100mgs AM .... 50 - 75mgs afternoon .... it was that afternoon dose that
    I realized without doubt how effective cortisol and T3 work together.

    Jean listed a fabulous website ... Dr. Rind gives so much information about cortisol, adrenal dysfunction and thyroid issues ... I learned from his "tools" that adrenal dysf. is stronger in me then I first realized ....

    The body temp and how it flunctuates during the day while stil in the low range was the give away. Check it out and then call that wonder doctor of your's and see what he says! Is he as adorable in person as he seems in his pics?!

    Did I get a chuckle out of ya? Hope so ....

    Take care,

    Elsa
    ps How warm is it where you are? Want a visitor? Can I fly with needles? lol.... have a good day dear ....
    [This Message was Edited on 02/10/2006]