NEURALLY MEDIATED HYPOTENSION

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by meditationlotus, May 5, 2004.

  1. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member

    I have been helped with fatigue somewhat from synthroid, cytomel, high protein diet, bi-pap for sleep apnea. But still can't solve the neurally mediated hypotension. All the meds the doc gave me for it just made me feel worse. I can't take Midodrine because I also have Reynald's Disease.

    I increase salt and fluids, and take three servings per day of licorice root. I check my blood pressure daily because I don't want to get it too high. Any sugestions. anyone.

    I think that if I could get the NMH under control, that I could function, at least better than I do. NMH is so disabling. Thanks.

    P.S. Also I haven't resolved my food alleriges. I am allergic to most of the foods that I need to handle hypoglycemia, and am way too fatigued to fix them as they require special preparation and standing. I feel that if I could resolve the NMH and the food allergies, that I would be taking a big step toward my recovery. Thanks<br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 05/06/2004</i>]
  2. monkeykat

    monkeykat Member

    Hi, I don't know but it's a good question. Is NMH a type
    of autonomic nervous system dysfuntion???

    If so, I found out recently that I have ANS dysfunction: POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome and also a poor nervous system "sweat response" when TST testing was done. The neurologist didn't have any "fixes" for these things. They put me on an antiviral that took my health from bad to worse.

    Then the neurologist's wanted to put me on prednisone and a different antiviral...I declined them both b/c I'm so sensitive and allergic to most meds. I went to see an alternative doctor but forgot to ask him about the ANS dysfunction (autonomic nervous system dysfunction).

    Good luck finding answers:)
    Kathy
  3. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member

    neurally mediated hypotension is a form of neural dysfunction. When you stand for a while, you body responds in the wrong way and causes your blood pressure to drop. I have been reading a lot about drenatrophin for adrenal dysfunction, which I also have. the drena is susponsed to reallly help sluggish adrenals, and difficulty standing can go hand in hand with sluggish adrenals.

    YOu were wise to refuse any more help from your doct. It seems that we have to figure out most things on our own. sad as it is. Good luck!
  4. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member

  5. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member

  6. monkeykat

    monkeykat Member

    Hi,
    Thank you for letting me know what NMH is. Is it a type of autonomic nervous system dysfuction??? I have postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome and also poor sweat response of my nerves to sweat testing in an irregular pattern.

    Have you tried to run a search on this site for NMH?

    The new doctor that I went to see thinks that I may also have poor adrenal function.

    What types of doctors have you seen? What treatments have they provided so far?

    Good luck to you also,
    I hope you get some answers. !
  7. foxglove9922

    foxglove9922 New Member

    Could some explain NMH to me. I had a tilt table test yesterday and after given the medicine to induce syncope my blood pressure dropped to 62/48, I broke out in a sweat, vomitted and in general thought I was going to croak. Everyone doing the test rushed into the room and were holding me up, calling my name, and telling me to hold on. The doctor doing the test said it was negative for syncope........duh.......what about the other stuff? NMH, POTS, OI.......anyway, any advise would be appreciated. Debi
  8. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member

    Neurally mediated hypotentions is an autonomic nervous dysfunction in which the body reacts inappropriately to prolonged standing. The body is supposed to compensate for standing by increasing the blood pressure. Instead in NMH, the heart rate slows, the blood pressure drops, and the person gets very weak, dizzy, nauseaus, and the person can pass out.

    In POTS, when the person first stands, his heart rate speeds up, but the blood pressure drops. I have both conditions. After standing a while, my fast heart rate (POTS)then slows too much, and the blood pressure drops even more (NMH).

    To receive a diagnosis of NMH, the patients blood pressure must drop profoundly (I think at least 20 notches), and the heart rate must slow significantly. Your doctor should have known that, after your test results, and told you that you have neurally mediated hypotension.

    I'm finding that NMH and POTS seem to be in assocition with low adrenal function. After researching a lot on the web and on this board, I've been trying the following strategies, and they seem to be helping: (I also have hypolycemia.)

    - On arising, I have a small protein meal. I also have a glass of whey protein powder, licorice root powder, astragalus root powder, green barley powder (for constipation), and sea salt.

    - I continue with these herbs and salt througout the day, and I also add horsechestnut and bilberry.

    All of the herbs (except green barley grass) help to constrict the blood vessels, while improving circulation. Therefore, the blood doesn't pool as much in the legs.

    Lots of salt and water help to build blood volume and keep your blood pressure from dropping. The amount to use can only be determined through experiementation.

    WHEN USING LICORICE, SALT AND BUTCHERS BROOM, you must monitor your blood pressure quite frequently, as too much of any of these can cause your blood pressure to get too high.

    Also, allergies (food and inhalant) can cause a histamine reaction and make the blood vessels swell and the blood to pool in the legs. I have numerous food allergies and haven't solved this dilema yet.

    Stress, hot temperature (including hot bath water), heavy meals, along with prolonged standing can also cause blood to pool.

    Hope this helps both of you. I think these techniques which I have recently begun, seem to be helping me.

    Also, have yourselves checked for low thyroid.

    Good luck!
  9. monkeykat

    monkeykat Member

    Hi meditationlotus,
    I'm so sorry that none of us have been able to answer your question. I'm going to print out all the advice that you gave us. If I find an answer to your problem then I will start a thread to you.
    Good luck on your journey:)
    monkeykat
  10. spacee

    spacee Member

    Dr. Cheney says that we can get some relief by drinking 16 ozs of Gookinade on an empty stomach. This stuff was invented by Mr. Gookin and is suppose to be superior to gatorade. You can only find it by doing a google or other search.

    I decided to try gatorade since I do not have a really bad problem with it and I like the results a lot!

    Dr. Cheney says that since it is absorbed into the blood so rapidly, the sugar in it is not a problem for those with yeast issues. And I think he says it is ok with hypoglycemia.

    Hope that helps you....

    Spacee
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 05/08/2004</i>]
  11. geoprof

    geoprof New Member

    I had a dizzyness attack similar to NMH a month ago and started drinking lots of water (48 oz +) and 1/2 tsp of sea salt. it helped immediately.
  12. Wombat37

    Wombat37 New Member

    I found something on the Net at one stage Re: a new medication for orthostatic hypotension that the Mayo clinic were involved with. I think the search I did was Mayo and hypotension. I also posted on this once so do a search here on Wombat. I think the drug in question might still be in trials but sounded promising.

    Wombat
  13. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member

    I will check out all of your suggestions. Much appreciated.
  14. lea

    lea Member

    What is drenatrophin? Is it by prescription?
    thank you
    best,
    lea
  15. Buddie

    Buddie New Member

    Mine was fixed big time by extra thryroid. Maybe you need more synthroid. Even though it was fixed for me 2 years ago, I still can't get out of the habit of walking close to the walls. I do NOT miss the dizzies at all. I can bend over and not feel like I am going to pass out. I can sit for along time at work and when I get up I am no longer dizzy, feeling like I am going to pass out, and holding on to the walls.

    Now, being bent over and taking some time to straighten up with my tight hips is another story. I use to have to really fight doctors who wanted me to lay down flat on a table. I told them, they would have to make it quick and monitor me. They would have to help me up and make sure I did not pass out.

    I still am afraid for my head to go below the plane of my body. I still sleep at a high angle even though I no longer have NMH. Old habits are hard to let go. I am so happy this problem is gone for me but it was finally getting some extra thyroid that did it for me. The thyroid also helped so many other things that I passed off to FMS.
  16. monkeykat

    monkeykat Member

    Hi, Thank you for all the information that you've provided!!! What a wealth of knowledge. I have copied it all into a file so that i have the info for myself.

    Here's my revised version:

    Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) dysfunction

    Neurally mediated hypotension (NMH) is an ANS dysfunction in which the body reacts inappropriately to prolonged standing. The body is supposed to compensate for standing by increasing the blood pressure. Instead in NMH, the heart rate slows, the blood pressure drops, and the person gets very weak, dizzy, nauseous, and the person can pass out. To receive a diagnosis of NMH, the patient&#8217;s blood pressure must drop profoundly (I think at least 20 notches), and the heart rate must slow significantly.

    Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) &#8211; when the person first stands, his heart rate speeds up, but the blood pressure drops. I have both conditions. After standing a while, my fast heart rate (POTS) then slows too much, and the blood pressure drops even more (NMH).

    NMH and POTS - seem to be associated with low adrenal function

    Research on the web and CFS message board suggested the following strategies, which seem to be helping: (I also have hypoglycemia)

    Treatment for NMH & POTS:
    Note: Dr. prescribed Midodrine for NMH (cannot take b/c I have Reynald&#8217;s Disease) & all the meds the doc gave me for it just made me feel worse.

    AM: small protein meal plus a glass of whey protein powder, licorice root powder, astragalus root powder, green barley powder (for constipation) and sea salt.
    1. Continue with these herbs and salt throughout the day and I also add horsechestnut and bilberry.
    2. All of the herbs (except green barley grass) help to constrict blood vessels to inc. circulation (blood doesn't pool in the legs).
    3. Lots of salt and water help to build blood volume and keep your blood pressure from dropping. The amount to use can only be determined through experimentation. Another post said, I had a dizziness attack similar to NMH a month ago and started drinking lots of water (48 oz +) and 1/2 tsp of sea salt. It helped immediately. If it&#8217;s not helping then add more salt.
    4. WHEN USING LICORICE, SALT AND BUTCHERS BROOM, you must monitor your blood pressure quite frequently. Too much of any of these can cause your blood pressure to get too high.
    5. Allergies (food and inhalant) can cause a histamine reaction and make the blood vessels swell and cause the blood to pool in the legs.
    6. Stress, hot temperature (ex. hot bath water), heavy meals, along w/ prolonged standing can also cause blood to pool.
    7. Gookinade, 16 oz on an empty stomach (per Dr. Cheney) This stuff was invented by Mr. Gookin and is suppose to be superior to gatorade. You can only find it by doing a google or other search. Dr. Cheney says it is absorbed into the blood so rapidly, the sugar is not a problem for those with yeast issues. And I think he says it is ok with hypoglycemia.
    8. Gatorade &#8211; helps if your NMH is not severe. I like the results a lot!
    9. A new medication for OH (orthostatic hypotension) that the Mayo clinic were involved with. I think the search I did was Mayo and hypotension. I also posted on this once so do a search here on Wombat. I think the drug in question might still be in trials but sounded promising.
    10. Kelp &#8211; has helped decrease my nmh.
    11. Salt tablets &#8211; from Walgreens &#8211; I take these when my adrenals get into a flare too much for the kelp
    12. L-glutamine - has helped me with stabilizing my blood sugar. I no longer suffer the severe hypoglycemia and sugar cravings (getting up in the night because my blood sugar dropped).
    13. Synthroid - Bad NMH was fixed by extra synthroid. It&#8217;s great to get up w/out getting dizzy and feeling like I&#8217;m going to pass out, to not have to hold onto walls or walk close to the walls, bend over and not feel like I am going to pass out, and sit for along time at work. I still am afraid for my head to go below the plane of my body. I still sleep at a high angle even though I no longer have NMH. Old habits are hard to let go. I am so happy this problem is gone for me but it was finally getting some extra thyroid that did it for me. The thyroid also helped so many other things that I passed off to FMS.

    *NMH and blood sugar are not problems while on the kelp and L-glutamine.
    ** Unstabilized blood sugar and NMH are symptoms of Adrenal Fatigue - the adrenal glands produce hormones that stabilize these functions. And if these are working right it is a big indication of weak adrenals.

    Other disorders:
    Adrenal dysfunction &#8211; drenatrophin &#8211; Difficulty standing can go hand in hand with sluggish adrenals. It has helped me so much in my daytime fatigue (2nd mo. of taking it&#8212;I hope it will cause adrenals to work correctly.
    Drenatrophin is a bovine glandular (adrenal gland of a cow). It does the job that our weak and too exhausted adrenal glands are not able to do. Therefore, in doing the adrenal job the drena is allowing our adrenals finally a chance of rest and time to heal. The adrenal glands are directly responsible for producing twelve hormones: some stabilize blood sugar, some stabilize the fluid/sodium balance in our bodies, and they all can indirectly affect appox. 50 other hormones. Medical docs are not behind the idea of taking a bovine glandular, "theoretically" because of the mad cow disease scare from eating hamburgers. Now the company that makes Drenatrophin, Standard Process, has been in business for 75 years. They only sell to docs and vets (medical and alternative). To get Drena you need to do a search on the Internet. I am on it for almost two months and have seen a big difference in my fatigue and brain fog. Only time will tell if this is going to continue to be as good as it has been.

    Fatigue &#8211; synthroid, cytomel, and high protein diet have helped

    Sleep Apnea - bi-pap
  17. monkeykat

    monkeykat Member

  18. spartanjt

    spartanjt New Member

    Nice summary of this NMH problem and treatments.

    This whole problem of blood pressure adjusting when standing and sitting for long periods is a big issue w/me. I know that the mechanism that is supposed to do these adjustments when one changes position, is out of whack in my case. Plus , it contributes to the fatigue problems too.

    I'm doing some of the things that have already been discussed,and just ordered some Gookinaid and going to give that a try too.Plus, i'm considering a trial of drenatrophin too, but want to talk to my alternative doc about that next week.

    I was curious which treatments in your summary , you've actually tried, or are currently using yourself. Plus, what did Dr Conley have to say re the NMH. Did he diagnose you as having it? or, give you some of the recommendations that have been listed here as suggested treatments for it.

    thx again for the info...

    JT
  19. spartanjt

    spartanjt New Member

  20. meditationlotus

    meditationlotus New Member